What happened to Rebecca Zahau?

[stmarysmead]

Off topic, but don't know where else to post this...From what I've read, Dina and Jonah's primary residence when they were married was in AZ. The court docs re domestic violence were from AZ where she allegedly told JS something like "you can't leave me, you can't leave this house"

He (they) bought the Spreckel's mansion in 2007 but I guess since it was his money, he kept the mansion in the 2009 divorce??

Now Dina has property in Coronado close to the mansion. but her bio lists her employment in AZ. Does anyone know when Dina purchased her home in Coronado and did she live there year round or did she just stay there when Jonah came to Coronado? If she didnt want JS to leave her as he claims, I don't understand why she would buy property so close to the mansion and possibly see JS and RZ around town being a happy couple as everyone said they were. MOO

Were they a happy couple. In this article, RZ's sister gives a different impression.

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2011/sep/14/citylights2-rebecca-zahau/

"Was Shacknai in love with Becky?

Mary hesitates.

“I don’t know. I couldn’t read [them]. I mean, were they affectionate with each other? No, not really. Not in front of us. If I saw them, I probably wouldn’t get that impression. Becky told me that she did love him but that she was disappointed in a lot of ways because he wouldn’t…she was disappointed in his [teenaged] kids, [how] they were allowed to be openly rude to her. Those other two children didn’t want her, period. They resented her. And Jonah would not defend her [against them], stop that. Not really. Not by my impression.”

By this summer, it was coming to a crunch for Rebecca.

“We talked about it; that if the teenaged kids’ behavior doesn’t improve she was considering telling Jonah at the end of this summer that she…needed to have some time to herself.

“I don’t know if she ended up telling him or not.”

As for why DS would come to Coronado and choose to be close by...Max! She has said she was uncomfortable with RZ...and this way, she was always nearby when she had to let his Dad have his time with him. It sounds like there was a lot of tension in JS's three blended families!

This blended family sure does not sound like the Waltons. And I am not placing blame.

 

[*Lash*]

Were they a happy couple. In this article, RZ's sister gives a different impression.

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2011/sep/14/citylights2-rebecca-zahau/

"Was Shacknai in love with Becky?

Mary hesitates.

“I don’t know. I couldn’t read [them]. I mean, were they affectionate with each other? No, not really. Not in front of us. If I saw them, I probably wouldn’t get that impression. Becky told me that she did love him but that she was disappointed in a lot of ways because he wouldn’t…she was disappointed in his [teenaged] kids, [how] they were allowed to be openly rude to her. Those other two children didn’t want her, period. They resented her. And Jonah would not defend her [against them], stop that. Not really. Not by my impression.”

By this summer, it was coming to a crunch for Rebecca.

“We talked about it; that if the teenaged kids’ behavior doesn’t improve she was considering telling Jonah at the end of this summer that she…needed to have some time to herself.

“I don’t know if she ended up telling him or not.”

As for why DS would come to Coronado and choose to be close by...Max! She has said she was uncomfortable with RZ...and this way, she was always nearby when she had to let his Dad have his time with him. It sounds like there was a lot of tension in JS's three blended families!

This blended family sure does not sound like the Waltons. And I am not placing blame.

BBM - In my opinion this quote has always left me with the impression RZ was not afraid to walk away from the relationship she had with JS. It does not sound like RZ felt dependent on JS.

 

[freespeech]

I'm not an expert on this case like y'all are but I've never believed this was a suicide. I believe it was a hired hit by someone who already didn't like RZ and had decided in their mind that she was responsible for MS's accident. I think JS suspected this was what really caused RZ's death but did not pursue it because he was already dealing with the loss of his son and making accusations about RZ's death could drawn a ***** storm of attention to him and his business dealings which he did not want to be put in jeopardy by his personal ongoings. I also wonder if he felt sympathy for the person who arranged it because he was sharing their pain and couldn't bring himself to act upon his suspicions.

As far as what happened to MS, I'm on the fence, but my personal hinky meter thinks RZ may have not told the truth/entire truth about what happened and the whole thing about MS saying the dog's name seems like a way of trying to plant the idea in that the dog was the cause of his accident. It was seems a little too convenient, "he felt and then said the dog's name, it must have been the dog!"

As always, this is all JMO.

SassyBenton, your theory comes the closest to my first impression of this case. I admit that after reading hundreds of comments I still come back to my original impression which was much like what you stated.

I also have questions about the 'Ocean' utterance and some of the other allegedly claimed statements Rebecca made. However, I must confess that I believe very little of what is purported in this case because of LE's obvious biases. I also reserve judgement in this matter until there is positive affirmation other that Rebecca and her sister's statements that Jonah and the other kids were not present. I personally have not ruled out that both Rebecca and her sister may have been told to lie to cover up for someone else. When there have already been so many "untruths" how do you know what to believe here?

I do not believe Rebecca killed herself. To me that is very clear. What happened to Max?...not so clear. However, even given the worse case scenario that he was intentionally harmed I would still never condone vigilante justice. Rebecca's murder seemed to be done in a murderous rage by someone who believed she deserved it.

If everyone went around as vigilantes murdering people they felt deserved it what kind of world would this be? What if the murderer found out later that they were completely wrong? Would they admit they made a mistake and turn themselves? Will they murder more people if they get mad and feel like it?

It makes me wonder about the person/persons that did this. If they are mentally and emotionally sick then they may have been irrational, dangerous and unable to control their behavior even before Rebecca was murdered. If they get away with this then what will they feel capable of doing in the future especially if they go into a rage? Will they feel that they are so powerful that they can have someone murdered if they feel like it?

I also feel that some of the top LE here were connected somehow to this family. That is why in my opinion there was biased investigation in favor of Jonah and Dina. I also, do not condone police favoritism which in my book equals police corruption.

 

[freespeech]

I'm not an expert on this case like y'all are but I've never believed this was a suicide. I believe it was a hired hit by someone who already didn't like RZ and had decided in their mind that she was responsible for MS's accident. I think JS suspected this was what really caused RZ's death but did not pursue it because he was already dealing with the loss of his son and making accusations about RZ's death could drawn a ***** storm of attention to him and his business dealings which he did not want to be put in jeopardy by his personal ongoings. I also wonder if he felt sympathy for the person who arranged it because he was sharing their pain and couldn't bring himself to act upon his suspicions.

As far as what happened to MS, I'm on the fence, but my personal hinky meter thinks RZ may have not told the truth/entire truth about what happened and the whole thing about MS saying the dog's name seems like a way of trying to plant the idea in that the dog was the cause of his accident. It was seems a little too convenient, "he felt and then said the dog's name, it must have been the dog!"

As always, this is all JMO.

SassyBenton, your theory comes the closest to my first impression of this case. I admit that after reading hundreds of comments I still come back to my original impression which was much like what you stated.

I do not believe Rebecca killed herself. To me that is very clear. What happened to Max?...not so clear. However, even given the worse case scenario that he was intentionally harmed I would still never condone vigilante justice. Rebecca's murder seemed to be done in a murderous rage by someone who believed she deserved it.

If everyone went around as vigilantes murdering people they felt deserved it what kind of world would this be? What if the murderer found out later that they were completely wrong? Would they admit they made a mistake and turn themselves? Will they murder more people if they get mad and feel like doing it?

It makes me wonder about the person/persons that did this. If they are mentally and emotionally sick then they may have been irrational, dangerous and unable to control their behavior even before Rebecca was murdered. So if they get away with this then what will they feel capable of doing in the future especially if they go into a rage? Will they feel that they are so powerful that they can have someone murdered if they feel like it?

I also feel that some of the top LE here were connected somehow to this family. That is why in my opinion they were biased in favor of Jonah and Dina. I also, do not condone police favoritism which in my book equals police corruption. Imoo.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

A few questions for those of you who think Rebecca was murdered...

-Why were her hands tied loosely? One can tie their ankles tightly, but not the wrists. And her wrists were loosely bound, tightened by her own fingers which were still holding the rope to tighten the bindings. Why would a murdered do this?

-Why were only her DNA and fingerprints found on the door knob, door frame, paint brushes, knives, bed leg, and on the knots of the rope. Pretty hard to just put the "victims" fingerprints and DNA on those ropes.

-Why wouldn't Rebecca call back the detective that wanted to ask questions about Max's accident?

-Why did Rebecca board her dog and send her sister home...without taking her to her follow-up appointment, and so Mary could remove the stitches?

-Why did Rebecca leave a "document" addressed to Jonah?

 

[freespeech]

A few questions for those of you who think Rebecca was murdered...

-Why were her hands tied loosely? One can tie their ankles tightly, but not the wrists. And her wrists were loosely bound, tightened by her own fingers which were still holding the rope to tighten the bindings. Why would a murdered do this?

-Why were only her DNA and fingerprints found on the door knob, door frame, paint brushes, knives, bed leg, and on the knots of the rope. Pretty hard to just put the "victims" fingerprints and DNA on those ropes.

-Why wouldn't Rebecca call back the detective that wanted to ask questions about Max's accident?

-Why did Rebecca board her dog and send her sister home...without taking her to her follow-up appointment, and so Mary could remove the stitches?

-Why did Rebecca leave a "document" addressed to Jonah?

BBM

CuriousGeorgia, the only one of your questions that I can answer with certainty is the one about DNA and fingerprints.

Of course a murderer would wear gloves, wipe off finger prints and clean up any evidence of having been at the scene of a murder. That appears self evident. Iirc, there were gloves at the scene but I don't recall what was determined about them.

I also, remember that LE did not seem thorough or diligent in collecting DNA evidence or testing it. There were obvious and glaring discrepancies with LE theory because no explanation was ever given as to why Adam's DNA was not found on the rope. I'm not going to bore everyone by listing all the discrepancies in this post although I strongly believe that a list should be done.

I do not believe that LE did a fair and thorough investigation here. I also do not believe that AB would attempt to send this case to the AG without compelling information and evidence to warrant a new investigation.

Also regarding the document addressed to Jonah...do we know what was in that? I would think if it were a suicide note than there would be less of a need for questioning the original investigation that was done by pursuing a new investigation, no?

 

[time]

-Why did Rebecca leave a "document" addressed to Jonah?

I see where the search warrant includes a "Document Addressed to Jonah" as was posted earlier and here:

http://www.sandiegojack.com/story/1...rch-warrants-to-be-unsealed?clienttype=mobile

Could you please provide a link that says Rebecca left that document?

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

[/u][/u][/i][/b]


BBM

CuriousGeorgia, the only one of your questions that I can answer with certainty is the one about DNA and fingerprints.

Of course a murderer would wear gloves, wipe off finger prints and clean up any evidence of having been at the scene of a murder. That appears self evident. Iirc, there were gloves at the scene but I don't recall what was determined about them.

I also, remember that LE did not seem thorough or diligent in collecting DNA evidence or testing it. There were obvious and glaring discrepancies with LE theory because no explanation was ever given as to why Adam's DNA was not found on the rope. I'm not going to bore everyone by listing all the discrepancies in this post although I strongly believe that a list should be done.

I do not believe that LE did a fair and thorough investigation here. I also do not believe that AB would attempt to send this case to the AG without compelling information and evidence to warrant a new investigation.

Also regarding the document addressed to Jonah...do we know what was in that? I would think if it were a suicide note than there would be less of a need for questioning the original investigation that was done by pursuing a new investigation, no?

- I believe the gloves were Rebecca's and she wore them when painting her message...and possibly when getting the knives from the kitchen.

- How does one wipe off DNA from a rope? How does one not leave ANY DNA?

- Once it was clear that the only DNA and fingerprints in the room where Rebecca killed herself were Rebecca's, there is no need to test anyone else. Why? What would you compare their DNA to? No DNA? It wouldn't make sense to take other's DNA.

- I bet Adam didn't even touch the rope except with the knife. He would have been holding RZ with one arm, and cutting with the knife - no need to touch the rope.

- <modsnip>?

 

[*Lash*]

11/17 press briefing

DAVID GOTFREDSON/CBS8:
Real quick. Was there mixed DNA found anywhere else in terms of the -&#8208; I think Ms. Bremner said on the show there was mixed DNA found on gloves, on the bed frame, and on the knife. Is there mixed DNA on those items?

GRUBB:
I'll run this down for you fairly quickly. Overwhelmingly, in 10 of the 11 rope segments --err--samples from the rope was Rebecca Zahau&#8217;s DNA that was found. In one of those samples there was a fragment of DNA from some other source, absolutely uninterpretable. There was a low level of DNA uninterpretable on the large knife from the bedroom floor. There was a low-level mixture of DNA not interpretable on a doorknob to the balcony. Those are the mixtures that I think she was --and the black gardening gloves that were recovered from a table at the scene? Again, a low level mixture, uninterpretable.

DAVID GOTFREDSON/CBS8:
What about the bed frame?

GRUBB:
That DNA sample was insufficient for analysis.

https://viewer.zoho.com/download?genFile=yea8bh

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Were there prints and DNA on the knives?
The small knife had Rebecca&#8217;s DNA, and only Rebecca&#8217;s DNA. No fingerprints were developed from this item. The large knife had Rebecca&#8217;s fingerprints, and only Rebecca&#8217;s fingerprints. A low level of DNA material was found on this knife as well, but it was not enough for any comparison.

Were there prints and DNA on the rope?
Rebecca&#8217;s DNA was found on the rope, particularly in areas that would have to be manipulated to tie the knots. Only Rebecca&#8217;s DNA was found on these items other than one &#8220;artifact,&#8221; which is a fragment of material that could be DNA, but does not contain enough information to determine who, or what, it came from (animals and plants also have DNA that can be left behind). The rope could not be fingerprinted.

Were there prints of her or anyone else in the house?
Rebecca&#8217;s prints were found in all areas of the incident scene, and on items directly related to the event (knife, paint tube). There was one fingerprint from a child found on the bed frame (possibly from Max), along with one other unidentified fingerprint. These two prints were from an area of the bedframe that was not near the location the rope was secured. Immediately around the area the rope was secured to the bed we found several of Rebecca&#8217;s prints, and only Rebecca&#8217;s prints. We fully expected to find many fingerprints in this house because, simply stated, it is a house. Anyone living in or visiting a residence can leave behind fingerprints, which is why we had to focus on items directly related to the event.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

 

[*Lash*]

Gore on ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT -

BURNETT: The Zahau family attorney, Ann Bremner, and Dr. Wecht, who is the man who just conducted another autopsy, which I'm going to ask you more about in a moment, have questioned this whole idea of the fact that she was -- Rebecca was naked when she died. That they said they usually aren't naked when people commit suicide, that would be highly unusual.

How did you become comfortable with this important aspect of the case?

GORE: This is definitely an unusual suicide. In fact, we approached it from the beginning, looking at a possible homicide. It was only until we got the results of all the forensic evidence, the DNA, the fingerprints. And I still wasn't convinced until we got the last piece of forensic information, which was the toxicology report. She had not been drugged.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1111/18/ebo.01.html

 

[jjenny]

- I believe the gloves were Rebecca's and she wore them when painting her message...and possibly when getting the knives from the kitchen.

- How does one wipe off DNA from a rope? How does one not leave ANY DNA?

- Once it was clear that the only DNA and fingerprints in the room where Rebecca killed herself were Rebecca's, there is no need to test anyone else. Why? What would you compare their DNA to? No DNA? It wouldn't make sense to take other's DNA.

- I bet Adam didn't even touch the rope except with the knife. He would have been holding RZ with one arm, and cutting with the knife - no need to touch the rope.

- <modsnip>?

How do you cut the body from the rope without touching the rope? <modsnip>? Where did that come from? Is that some new rumor floating around? Because there was nothing in the sheriff's presentation about this supposed letter.

 

[*Lash*]

Were there prints and DNA on the knives?
The small knife had Rebecca&#8217;s DNA, and only Rebecca&#8217;s DNA. No fingerprints were developed from this item. The large knife had Rebecca&#8217;s fingerprints, and only Rebecca&#8217;s fingerprints. A low level of DNA material was found on this knife as well, but it was not enough for any comparison.

Were there prints and DNA on the rope?
Rebecca&#8217;s DNA was found on the rope, particularly in areas that would have to be manipulated to tie the knots. Only Rebecca&#8217;s DNA was found on these items other than one &#8220;artifact,&#8221; which is a fragment of material that could be DNA, but does not contain enough information to determine who, or what, it came from (animals and plants also have DNA that can be left behind). The rope could not be fingerprinted.

Were there prints of her or anyone else in the house?
Rebecca&#8217;s prints were found in all areas of the incident scene, and on items directly related to the event (knife, paint tube). There was one fingerprint from a child found on the bed frame (possibly from Max), along with one other unidentified fingerprint. These two prints were from an area of the bedframe that was not near the location the rope was secured. Immediately around the area the rope was secured to the bed we found several of Rebecca&#8217;s prints, and only Rebecca&#8217;s prints. We fully expected to find many fingerprints in this house because, simply stated, it is a house. Anyone living in or visiting a residence can leave behind fingerprints, which is why we had to focus on items directly related to the event.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

BBM - I would expect Rebecca's fingerprints and DNA to be all over that house. She lived there. She painted. She cleaned. She was bound by the rope.

 

[time]

Here

Off topic, but don't know where else to post this...From what I've read, Dina and Jonah's primary residence when they were married was in AZ. The court docs re domestic violence were from AZ where she allegedly told JS something like "you can't leave me, you can't leave this house"

He (they) bought the Spreckel's mansion in 2007 but I guess since it was his money, he kept the mansion in the 2009 divorce??

Now Dina has property in Coronado close to the mansion. but her bio lists her employment in AZ. Does anyone know when Dina purchased her home in Coronado and did she live there year round or did she just stay there when Jonah came to Coronado? If she didnt want JS to leave her as he claims, I don't understand why she would buy property so close to the mansion and possibly see JS and RZ around town being a happy couple as everyone said they were. MOO

Here is an old post about that G Ave property in Coronado that Dina lived in:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7058558&postcount=139"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #7[/ame]

Quote from the Patch (map also & more at link above)

The house that Dina lives in on G Avenue is owned by the "Jonah Shacknai Revocable Trust". That property was on the market back in 2009, and was scheduled to be autioned on July 11, 2009: the very same date two years prior to Max's accident. Might also explain why Dina rented a home in La Jolla during that period.

 

[time]

How do you cut the body from the rope without touching the rope? <modsnip>? Where did that come from? Is that some new rumor floating around? Because there was nothing in the sheriff's presentation about this supposed letter.

jjenny ... the only thing I can find about that is that it is a document addressed to Jonah and it's on the search warrant list, I believe. Others here seem to have more information about it or are making assumptions but I can't find links to anything else - I've asked for other people to post links, but if they have I missed it.

 

[deanna82437]

How do you cut the body from the rope without touching the rope? <modsnip>? Where did that come from? Is that some new rumor floating around? Because there was nothing in the sheriff's presentation about this supposed letter.

jjenny ... the only thing I can find about that is that it is a document addressed to Jonah and it's on the search warrant list, I believe. Others here seem to have more information about it or are making assumptions but I can't find links to anything else - I've asked for other people to post links, but if they have I missed it.

time, I've looked as well and the only reference I found is in the search warrants themselves and listed as a document addressed to Jonah. No reference as to the sender.

 

[time]

time, I've looked as well and the only reference I found is in the search warrants themselves and listed as a document addressed to Jonah. No reference as to the sender.

Thank you deanna, I thought I was going crazy!

Was it specified that it was found in the bedroom or just in the house?

 

[inthedark14]

Thank you deanna, I thought I was going crazy!

Was it specified that it was found in the bedroom or just in the house?

IIRC the warrent made public was a list. No notion of what was taken from where. I
could be mistaken but I believe that's all I've ever seen.

Always, MOO

 

[deanna82437]

Thank you deanna, I thought I was going crazy!

Was it specified that it was found in the bedroom or just in the house?

These quotes are all messed up! All I saw was it listed on the search warrant. No reference to where it was located.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

IMO, someone was torturing her in order to get more information. I believe he/she either lost control and killed her or the killer determined that a line had been crossed and that RZ had to be silenced. I believe the killer wrote the message on the wall and that the killer was convinced she was covering up something or for someone. I think the killer was either waiting for someone to verify information or left her to die or be saved.

The message on the wall has always suggested a link to the movie Pretty Women for me. There's a quote at the end of the movie that that is sort of similar and the killer may have drawn comparisons between a rich businessman and a younger woman (I'm am by no means suggesting that RZ was a prostitute or did not love JS). But someone may have viewed her role negatively out of jealousy or loyalty.

Eduardo: "so what happened after he climbed up the tower and rescued her"
Vivian: "she rescues him right back"