What happened to Rebecca Zahau?

[justice be served]

Did you all know that CBS8 San Diego did a reenactment of the Rebecca hanging at...

"The reenactment was staged at the home of Ted Greenberg, the operator of the Camp Diggity Dogs pet-care facility. He had picked up Rebecca Zahau's dog from the mansion the day before she died and Greenberg was one of the last people to see Zahau alive."

I have never fully trusted what he told the news about his encounters with Rebecca. And now this confirms my feelings that he was using the incident to garner new customers for his business.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15940480/...nt-reveals-new-questions?clienttype=printable

Imo much of the reports in these cases seem questionable in their veracity and/or reporting.

 

[gngr~snap]

gngr~snap,

Where did you find this report? This contradicts earlier information and is really important.

Thanks,

Salem

I'M SORRY. I FOUND IT HERE.
http://www.maxshacknai.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/CFD_Report.pdf
Page 1 high lighted in yellow.
She could have been attempting rescue breathing/and or taking the pulse incorrectly thinking her own pulse was indeed his. (I am not faulting her here at all)

Per EMT....
Max's airway was noted to have fluid and blood.
*noted on physical exam oh head
" blood in airway and pooling airway secretions"

Not sure if this was prior to an attempt to intubate him or not.
He did have intra trachial suctioning noted at 10:18 am... and that seems to have improved things.
EMT's never were able to secure an ET tube.
"10:19 am oral intabation unsuccessful"
As I read it he was "bagged" (ambu bag) during transport as Max continued to vomit during transport.
* noted on ADDENDUM 7/13/2011 20:49
"PATIENTS AIRWAY NOT PATENT due to continuous vomit and secretions that required suctioning."


I'm an office nurse! Not usually having to deal with "emeregency response" so PLEASE ANYONE feel free to correct me if I am interpreting this wrong! = )

 

[Zinn]

I'll start out by saying I don't know what happened to Rebecca Zahau. My personal opinion is that she did not commit suicide and with each new revelation in the case, my suspicions move more toward a revenge scenario directly related to Max's tragic injury less than two days earlier.

It is now public knowledge that one or more members of Max's family believe the following:

- Max was assaulted and thrown over a banister. (Coincidentally, Rebecca was reportedly found dead, hanging over a banister)
- Rebecca and her sister worked together to mislead a 911 operator about life saving efforts performed on Max. (Coincidentally, some people question the authenticity of AS's 911 call, particularly whether he could have performed CPR on Rebecca as stated during the call, considering she had been dead for hours and her hands were still tied behind her back.)
- Max's head wounds were too severe to have occurred from an accidental fall from the staircase landing. (Coincidentally, Rebecca had multiple contusions on the top of her head that were difficult to explain through a "hanging" scenario.)

I find these similarities disturbing. I'm willing to accept the possibility that they are merely coincidental, but I'm not convinced.

Just my opinion.

 

[freespeech]

What about Howard Luber?

I wonder if he was interviewed by the SDSO? He was allegedly with Jonah Monday night and Tuesday afternoon.

I wonder if he also had a summer home in Coronado, maybe in the same area of Jonah's home. Dina's home was a 4-5 minute walk away according to Nina in her interview. It is my understanding the the three lived in close proximity in Arizona.

I heard on the comment boards that Jonah never returned to the mansion after the deaths. I don't believe that though. I also heard and I can't remember where that Jonah stayed with a friend in Coronado after the deaths. Now I'm wondering if Howard Luber owned a house in the area and Jonah stayed there?

I'm just speculating because I don't have links to these comments that I recall reading elsewhere. I hope I don't get in trouble but I am wondering about this because Nina mentioned Howard twice in her interview. He was also one of the people that Rebecca allegedly taxied. It seemed as though he might have been one of the major players in the on going crisis at that time.

 

[Inparadise]

What about Howard Luber?

I wonder if he was interviewed by the SDSO? He was allegedly with Jonah Monday night and Tuesday afternoon.

I wonder if he also had a summer home in Coronado, maybe in the same area of Jonah's home. Dina's home was a 4-5 minute walk away according to Nina in her interview. It is my understanding the the three lived in close proximity in Arizona.

I heard on the comment boards that Jonah never returned to the mansion after the deaths. I don't believe that though. I also heard and I can't remember where that Jonah stayed with a friend in Coronado after the deaths. Now I'm wondering if Howard Luber owned a house in the area and Jonah stayed there?

I'm just speculating because I don't have links to these comments that I recall reading elsewhere. I hope I don't get in trouble but I am wondering about this because Nina mentioned Howard twice in her interview. He was also one of the people that Rebecca allegedly taxied. It seemed as though he might have been one of the major players in the on going crisis at that time.

Yes, Luber does have a home in Coronado: <modsnip>, and it is very close to Spreckels: the back yards almost connect. You can see this if you check it out on Zillow.com.

 

[gngr~snap]

AS called JS and said "hung herself"
JS called DS and said "suicide"...
Yet, RZ laid deceased and NUDE in the yard ALL DAY
waiting on the HOMICIDE UNIT!!!
due to "suspicious circumstances"

Red Flag? ~anyone?

"The condition of the victim and the scene showed suspicious circumstances," which prompted police to call the Sheriff's Department homicide unit, sheriff's Capt. Tim Curran said.

Coronado police don't have a full-time homicide unit and routinely call on the Sheriff's Department in matters such as this one, Coronado police spokeswoman Lea Corbin said.



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep...s-death-reported-san-diego.html#ixzz27ptq7TXc

 

[Inparadise]

AS called JS and said "hung herself"
JS called DS and said "suicide"...
Yet, RZ laid deceased and NUDE in the yard ALL DAY
waiting on the HOMICIDE UNIT!!!
due to "suspicious circumstances"

Red Flag? ~anyone?

"The condition of the victim and the scene showed suspicious circumstances," which prompted police to call the Sheriff's Department homicide unit, sheriff's Capt. Tim Curran said.

Coronado police don't have a full-time homicide unit and routinely call on the Sheriff's Department in matters such as this one, Coronado police spokeswoman Lea Corbin said.



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep...s-death-reported-san-diego.html#ixzz27ptq7TXc

It is true that Coronado PD does not have a homicide unit........I have had a home here for almost 30 years, and although there have only been a handful of homicides, SDSO has always been called in, with the exception of a double homicide/suicide at the Amphib base back around 1993. IIRC, NCIS and the FBI were involved in that incident. I am not sure what the protocol is/has been in the case of drug ODs, but I believe that CPD handles those without SDSO. I do think that because of the nature of whose home this was, that fact alone was a reason for calling in SDSO..........which I happen to think was a big mistake. IMO, of course.

 

[gngr~snap]

~ sorry the 13 hours was for the ME.

7/13/11
6:48 am
At this time, Jonah claims he received a text message from Adam advising Rebecca had hung herself

6:54 AM - Coronado Fire Dept arrived. Rebecca was cold to the touch and rigor mortis was present in her jaw. They pronounced Rebecca deceased. They quickly decide they do not have the resources to deal with a homicide and call in San Diego County to help.

7:00 AM &#8211; Dina, who was at Max&#8217;s bedside, received a call from Jonah telling her Rebecca had killed herself. At this time Jonah returns to the hospital.

AT 6:54am the police were saying suspicious and homicide?
AT 7:00am it's suicide??? HOW did JS KNOW she "killed herself"? (with any degree of certainty?)

Most people deny that a loved one would ever do that!
He hadn't even been to see the scene...


7:15 PM - 13 hours after Rebecca&#8217;s body is discovered the ME finally arrives. They determine Rebecca&#8217;s death to be somewhere between 1:00 AM and 3:00 AM.

She was waiting on the ME...

____________________________________
July 13
12:30 AM - Jonah claims he sent a voicemail message to Rebecca stating that Max&#8217;s condition was grave and his death was imminent.
28 hours later...
July 14th
10:18 AM &#8211; Shacknai&#8217;s contact LE and inform them that Max has become very bad and is most likely not going to live.

so which is it?
When did JS really know this info?
Isn't this why Rebecca commited "suicide"?
or just a reason to get police to back off?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148814&page=4

 

[freespeech]

~ sorry the 13 hours was for the ME.

7/13/11
6:48 am
At this time, Jonah claims he received a text message from Adam advising Rebecca had hung herself

6:54 AM - Coronado Fire Dept arrived. Rebecca was cold to the touch and rigor mortis was present in her jaw. They pronounced Rebecca deceased. They quickly decide they do not have the resources to deal with a homicide and call in San Diego County to help.

7:00 AM &#8211; Dina, who was at Max&#8217;s bedside, received a call from Jonah telling her Rebecca had killed herself. At this time Jonah returns to the hospital.

AT 6:54am the police were saying suspicious and homicide?
AT 7:00am it's suicide??? HOW did JS KNOW she "killed herself"? (with any degree of certainty?)

Most people deny that a loved one would ever do that!
He hadn't even been to see the scene...


7:15 PM - 13 hours after Rebecca&#8217;s body is discovered the ME finally arrives. They determine Rebecca&#8217;s death to be somewhere between 1:00 AM and 3:00 AM.

She was waiting on the ME...

____________________________________
July 13
12:30 AM - Jonah claims he sent a voicemail message to Rebecca stating that Max&#8217;s condition was grave and his death was imminent.
28 hours later...
July 14th
10:18 AM &#8211; Shacknai&#8217;s contact LE and inform them that Max has become very bad and is most likely not going to live.

so which is it?
When did JS really know this info?
Isn't this why Rebecca commited "suicide"?
or just a reason to get police to back off?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148814&page=4

Was there a facebook post by Dina's boyfriend's daughter? Didn't she post that Max was brain dead on July 13? Dina must have told her boyfriend before he told his daughter. So it seems that Dina probably knew Max was brain dead before Rebecca died. Nina also said in her interview that she knew Max was gone...she could tell he just wasn't there anymore.

A review of the medical records would put to rest all these questions, no?

 

[gngr~snap]

Was there a facebook post by Dina's boyfriend's daughter? Didn't she post that Max was brain dead on July 13? Dina must have told her boyfriend before he told his daughter. So it seems that Dina probably knew Max was brain dead before Rebecca died. Nina also said in her interview that she knew Max was gone...she could tell he just wasn't there anymore.

A review of the medical records would put to rest all these questions, no?

The whole reason RZ killed herself was because of the "voicemail JS left her...
12:50am 7/13/11

BUT!!! That was a Wed???

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...dhln.01.html&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13489151209513

~SNIPPED
SHACKNAI: &#8220;He had a neck brace and a respirator... and a tube drilled into his skull to remove excess fluids. They said it was a heart attack. I couldn&#8217;t understand how all the injuries... were explained by a heart attack.&#8221;
SHACKNAI ...The first thing that I was told was that he had a heart attack. I didn`t understand how that had happened and that somehow the chandelier had came down. I didn`t understand that had happened.
I thought and as the week progress, I thought the most important thing to do was focus on Max and so I brought his favorite stuffed animals. I even brought my favorite -- his favorite perfume that he knew that I wore, thinking maybe it would stir some memory for him so I never thought Max was not going to walk out of that hospital. I thought that I would maybe need a tutor and he would be able to play on his Blackhawks team and maybe he would sit out a few games.
She thought Rebecca had saved Max???(IMO)

So then my focus that week was on being with him, speaking to him, reading to him, singing to him, hoping to, you know, elicit and stir some, to let him know that I was there.

PINSKY: And then you -- when he died, you didn`t have any expectation that was going to happen? (FRI July 15)

SHACKNAI: I didn`t. I -- it happened on Friday, the first. He suffered from brain death and on Friday morning, approximately 6:30 in the morning, the EEG went flat and I thought something was wrong with the machine.
And it was soon clear that the doctors came in and said, you know, that he was brain dead. So, it was a shock to me and, you know, going through the next 24 hours and sitting with him was just as hard.

And, Dina, I will let you sort of address -- no, not the staircase, here it is, this thing. This is the police rendition of what happened. What do you think happened?

SHACKNAI: Well, according to doctors, Bove and Melinek, Max was assaulted, there was an assault scenario at the top of the --

PINSKY: So, somebody assaulted him. Somebody assaulted him and threw him over the rail? Is that what we are saying?
* no answer



This woman is a clinical psychologist? Went to college, had training?
Her child has tubes in his brain and she relates it to a &#9829; attack!!!
She had NO IDEA her child was going to die????

July 13 WED
12:30 AM - Jonah claims he sent a voicemail message to Rebecca stating that Max&#8217;s condition was grave and his death was imminent.
This is why RZ committed suicide/was killed?

July 14th THUR
10:18 AM - Rebecca&#8217;s autopsy is performed at 10:18 AM.(results are sealed).
&#8211; Shacknai&#8217;s contact LE and inform them that Max has become very bad and is most likely not going to live. They knew that 7/13 at 12:30am!

yet 7/15 was a shock?
I thought she was calling organ donation places?

 

[Zinn]

Was there a facebook post by Dina's boyfriend's daughter? Didn't she post that Max was brain dead on July 13? Dina must have told her boyfriend before he told his daughter. So it seems that Dina probably knew Max was brain dead before Rebecca died. Nina also said in her interview that she knew Max was gone...she could tell he just wasn't there anymore.

A review of the medical records would put to rest all these questions, no?

Dina's boyfriend's daughter posted conflicting updates on a social media site (not Facebook). The first posting was on the evening of Max's fall. It stated he might not live and he had "no brain activity going on" (which is not the same as brain dead, but certainly ominous). Later (I don't recall which day), she posted that he was going to recover and should be better by Christmas. The first post was deleted a while later. Don't recall if the second post was deleted.

 

[K_Z]

yet 7/15 was a shock?
I thought she was calling organ donation places?

Respectfully snipped, and BBM.

Brain death certification in a patient with a beating heart and functional organs is not one measurement or one moment in time. It is a complex process that takes 1 to 3 days, depending on the condition of the patient. Protocols are rigid, and require involvement of at least 2 physicians at separate points in time, performing separate evaluations, and using multiple measures and diagnostic tests.

None of the caregivers involved with the care of the living patient are involved with the organ recovery surgery; a completely separate team from outside the facility comes in to do the procurement. The caregivers involved with the care of the living patient have no involvement in determining which patients receive the organs of the donor, and have no part in notifying them or caring for them. This separation of the care and decision making process is very necessary to protect the integrity of the process for determining brain death, and prevent any kind of improper influences.

Family members would not have to do much to initiate the process if they wished for their loved one to be considered a donor-- the hospital usually initiates the conversations and the process. Typically, a few of these conversations take place as it becomes obvious that a patient is brain dead, and the family is given information about donation from representatives who are specially trained to interact with grieving families. Families are reassured that they will not be charged for the procurement surgery, nor are they charged for ICU care once the patient is declared brain dead. (And they are not charged for autopsy, if needed.)

Max's docs would also have had to have permission from the ME and LE to consider Max a donor and carry out the procurement process, because he was going to be required to have an autopsy due to the circumstances surrounding his accident.

All of this takes time. Hours to days. Multiple measurements, multiple diagnostic tests. If a patient is on any meds that could supress brain activity and consciousness, these have to be withdrawn for many hours before the diagnostic process for brain death can even begin. For a beating heart patient, it simply is not a rapid or momentary process to declare a patient in ICU with a beating heart brain dead.

If Dina made any phone call to the organ donation coordinator at Rady, she was returning phone calls, or responding to their inquiries. Both parents, in this situation, would have to agree to donation, also, so Jonah was definitely in the loop on this.

Here is a mainstream media article with some info on the process:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2010-06-12-brain-dead_N.htm

 

[K_Z]

And along with my post above, I want to emphasize that the process for determining brain death will be meticulously documented and discussed at length in Max's medical records. Yet another reason why I think Dina will never disclose Max's medical records in support of her quest to reopen his case. Max's records will conclusively prove when she and Jonah were first notifed that docs believed Max would not recover. The records will document what they were told, and what occurred during the brain death certification process (nurses notes of family interaction with Jonah and Dina also). I can understand that Dina proclaims her denial of this process in interviews, however, it simply is not possible that what she claims in these interviews is accurate. Whether this inaccuracy from Dina is denial, or deliberate misleading of the public, is open to opinion and interpretation.

Max's medical records absolutely hold the answers to all of these kinds of questions. And in my professional opinion, it is not possible for Max's medical records to document what Dina has said is the course of events in the hospital.

And to get back to the topic of this thread, the real dilemma for Dina is that Max's medical record will conclusively establish what was known about Max's condition on Monday and Tuesday, in the hours leading up to Rebecca's death (imo, Rebecca's murder). The records document what was told to both Dina and Jonah. The nurses notes will also likely have comments about who was at the bedside at this time. "Mother present; both parents present ABS", etc.

The nurses notes may also give insight into whether or not Dina and Jonah were expressing denial, or were accepting information about Max's condition and prognosis appropriately. For example, if a parent was in complete denial over the gravity of the situation (making comments about the patient that were completely unrealistic, for example), the bedside nurse would note this, and recommend a social worker visit, and more conversations with doctors. The nurse would document who she spoke with to ensure follow up. Likewise, if family members express extreme anger, or acting out, nurses would document this. "Father overturned bedside table in anger and frustration after doctor's visit". If family members are distraught, that would also be documented ("family members crying, very sad, and supporting one another. Multiple family members present in the waiting room").

Nurses often document the emotional state of parents, if, for example, they were fighting and arguing about decisions involving the patient, and again, request involvement of social work, and notify the patient's docs.Nurses also document cooperation and agreement of parents, as well. Or something like, "father acknowledges the grave condition of the patient, but mother insists patient is going to attend a birthday party tomorrow". This type of documentation demonstrates the extent of coping of the family members, and is necessary for ensuring that information provided by caregivers to the parents about the patient is accurate and well documented. It also protects the hospital and the caregivers from liability, if they are sued.

Max's medical records hold information that could be extremely helpful to a re-investigation of Rebecca's death.

 

[Inparadise]

Dina's boyfriend's daughter posted conflicting updates on a social media site (not Facebook). The first posting was on the evening of Max's fall. It stated he might not live and he had "no brain activity going on" (which is not the same as brain dead, but certainly ominous). Later (I don't recall which day), she posted that he was going to recover and should be better by Christmas. The first post was deleted a while later. Don't recall if the second post was deleted.

Last time I checked,the more recents posts about Max recovering by Christmas were there.

 

[freespeech]

Dina's boyfriend's daughter posted conflicting updates on a social media site (not Facebook). The first posting was on the evening of Max's fall. It stated he might not live and he had "no brain activity going on" (which is not the same as brain dead, but certainly ominous). Later (I don't recall which day), she posted that he was going to recover and should be better by Christmas. The first post was deleted a while later. Don't recall if the second post was deleted.

Was the first post scrubbed out so that history could be rewritten? What were the underlying motivations and who benefited from the revision? Hmmmm. I wonder.

 

[freespeech]

Last time I checked,the more recents posts about Max recovering by Christmas were there.

That seems congruent with what Nina said in her interview. I wonder who was disseminating the updates and how those align with the actual medical records.

 

[Inparadise]

Was the first post scrubbed out so that history could be rewritten? What were the underlying motivations and who benefited from the revision? Hmmmm. I wonder.

I happened to have saved a copy of the original post.......and for a while after the "damage control" started, it was still available on "cache". IMO, Dina was fully aware of how bad Max's condition was from the very beginning, and the BS that Nina spewed in her interview was for the purpose of laying the ground work for a wrongful death suit and to make herself out to be the victim.

 

[freespeech]

I happened to have saved a copy of the original post.......and for a while after the "damage control" started, it was still available on "cache". IMO, Dina was fully aware of how bad Max's condition was from the very beginning, and the BS that Nina spewed in her interview was for the purpose of laying the ground work for a wrongful death suit and to make herself out to be the victim.

Inparadise, thank you for your analysis. I agree. The pieces are starting to fit together. The medical record would confirm the truth about what they knew and when, imo.

 

[katydid23]

I happened to have saved a copy of the original post.......and for a while after the "damage control" started, it was still available on "cache". IMO, Dina was fully aware of how bad Max's condition was from the very beginning, and the BS that Nina spewed in her interview was for the purpose of laying the ground work for a wrongful death suit and to make herself out to be the victim.

So does she think the judge is going to take a magazine interview and old FB posts over the medical records?

 

[bourne]

I happened to have saved a copy of the original post.......and for a while after the "damage control" started, it was still available on "cache". IMO, Dina was fully aware of how bad Max's condition was from the very beginning, and the BS that Nina spewed in her interview was for the purpose of laying the ground work for a wrongful death suit and to make herself out to be the victim.

Nina also stated in her phone interview to CBS8 that "Rebecca asked me 'Are you good with directions?' and she handed me her cellphone". (At Audio 00:03:30) So we know Nina had gotten her fingerprints on Rebecca's cellphone, and we know Jonah's voicemail on Wed 12:50am was deleted from Rebecca's cellphone. Perhaps Nina included this statement to cover herself for the fact that if the investigators did forensics on Rebecca's cellphone, Nina's prints would be found on it.

Click on audio at http://www.cbs8.com/story/15982091/exclusive-max-shacknais-aunt-talks-about-coronado-mansion-deaths