What was John wearing the morning of Dec. 26?

[Nuisanceposter]

Nuisanceposter,

It was all staged down to the 911 call. No need to search, let the police find her corpse, then they could fly off somewhere safe?

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Exactly, UKGuy. I think the Rs were planning for police to find her on the initial search and take the RN seriously, allowing them to jet off.

 

[JMO8778]

I agree!! If that had of been MY child, after calling 911....I would have searched the whole house!!!! Under beds, Burke's bedroom, in the closet....and ESPECIALLY the basement!!! I know that there was a "ransom note"...and to defend themselves, they would probably say that they had no reason to search the house thoroughly, because they thought it was a kidnapping. BUT....what else was there to do, after calling 911? Geez, make yourself USEFUL....search the house, turn it upside down!! Now thats what I would have done, and thats what YOU would have done...but, the Ramsey's? No, they took that precious time to call their friends over to have an early morning, spur of the moment, tea party. What's ironic, is....if an "intruder" had of done it, (which he didn't)....and if they had of searched that house RIGHT after the 911 call, there could have been the possibility that she COULD have still been alive. I have never heard the Ramsey's say that they regret not finding JB's body sooner, because they may could have saved her.....have you ever heard them comment on that before? I know that French said, that he had regrets, because he didn't check that room where she was found, in the beginning....BUT...do the Ramsey's have regrets? Now THAT is the question.....

nope,not once,not even once.
I would have been searching for her,as well as for clues..things that might have been moved,missing,etc.I would also have made sure someone searched the yard,as well as the entire neighborhood,including getting in the car and riding around.
As far as waiting for the 'KN' to call,they had 2 hrs from the 911 call ,till it was 8am.They had time to search,instead of just sitting around.They could have had the friends search the neighborhood as well.
It appears FW was the only one of the friends who did any real searching...perhaps b/c his own daughter went missing once,and he instinctively knew that was the thing to do.IOW,I think he could relate to the situation.

 

[Ames]

Ames,


Did he really?

How about he took a shower after being involved in the death of JonBenet, so had to remove forensic evidence.

Then wearing the robe he supervised parts of the coverup?


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LOL...good point. Its hard to believe anything that they say...because its all lies. :liar:

 

[Ames]

Exactly, UKGuy. I think the Rs were planning for police to find her on the initial search and take the RN seriously, allowing them to jet off.

IMO...just "jetting off"...with your daughter dead or missing, would raise eyebrows. How much more suspicious could the parents be? Wasn't John making arrangements to fly to Atlanta, right after the body was found? He should have been arrested just for THAT...IMO

 

[JMO8778]

Exactly, UKGuy. I think the Rs were planning for police to find her on the initial search and take the RN seriously, allowing them to jet off.

makes sense,as per their previous plan to go to MI;the plane was ready to go at that time.

 

[Ames]

nope,not once,not even once.
I would have been searching for her,as well as for clues..things that might have been moved,missing,etc.I would also have made sure someone searched the yard,as well as the entire neighborhood,including getting in the car and riding around.

Yep, me too. Why stop at searching the house...I would be searching the whole doggone neighborhood. My four year old sneaked out of the house last summer, and she disappeared. My husband, and I, along with our 14 year old (at the time) were frantic, we searched the house first and then went around knocking on peoples doors. We were screaming her name over and over again, in between the door knocking.
We finally found her, playing with some kid....that we did not know....inside of that kid's house. The mom answered the door, and I said....out of breath...."Have you seen a little blonde hair girl, she is four...and she is wearing..."...and the mom casually says..."OH...she is right here". Well, needless to say...she doesn't get alot of spankings, but she sure got one that day. My point is....why didn't the Ramsey's do that???

As far as waiting for the 'KN' to call,they had 2 hrs from the 911 call ,till it was 8am.They had time to search,instead of just sitting around.They could have had the friends search the neighborhood as well.
It appears FW was the only one of the friends who did any real searching...perhaps b/c his own daughter went missing once,and he instinctively knew that was the thing to do.IOW,I think he could relate to the situation.

I agree...they had a ready made "search party"....but all they did was sat around and twiddled their thumbs, and watched Patsy cry, and peek to make sure that she was being watched...and was being believable. They weren't being very productive, IMO. It should have never taken JR that long to find JB's body....I mean, IF there had actually been an intruder....(which there wasn't).

 

[JMO8778]

Yep, me too. Why stop at searching the house...I would be searching the whole doggone neighborhood. My four year old sneaked out of the house last summer, and she disappeared. My husband, and I, along with our 14 year old (at the time) were frantic, we searched the house first and then went around knocking on peoples doors. We were screaming her name over and over again, in between the door knocking.
We finally found her, playing with some kid....that we did not know....inside of that kid's house. The mom answered the door, and I said....out of breath...."Have you seen a little blonde hair girl, she is four...and she is wearing..."...and the mom casually says..."OH...she is right here". Well, needless to say...she doesn't get alot of spankings, but she sure got one that day. My point is....why didn't the Ramsey's do that???

I did the same when my cat was missing....I looked for my cat more than
they looked for JB that morning.(Glad you found your daughter !)
I would think they would have been asking neighbors if they saw or heard anything unusual that night,too.As well as BR....at the least,they would have been asking him if he'd heard or saw anything!! Not to even mention..they left him in bed alone that morning ! What if someone had been in the closet or hiding somewhere else???I'm sure they would have thought of that had it been a real KN.

I agree...they had a ready made "search party"....but all they did was sat around and twiddled their thumbs, and watched Patsy cry, and peek to make sure that she was being watched...and was being believable. They weren't being very productive, IMO. It should have never taken JR that long to find JB's body....I mean, IF there had actually been an intruder....(which there wasn't).

yep,and one other thing that got my attention,if the movie PMPT was accurate about this...PR (and the others) sat around looking at pictures of JB that morning...I've seen that done so many times after a loved one has passed...it's a common thing to do,as it feels like the pics are all you have left of them.That was a big tip-off to me.(NOT that the others were guilty though!)

 

[Ames]

I did the same when my cat was missing....I looked for my cat more than
they looked for JB that morning.(Glad you found your daughter !)
I would think they would have been asking neighbors if they saw or heard anything unusual that night,too.As well as BR....at the least,they would have been asking him if he'd heard or saw anything!! Not to even mention..they left him in bed alone that morning ! What if someone had been in the closet or hiding somewhere else???I'm sure they would have thought of that had it been a real KN.


yep,and one other thing that got my attention,if the movie PMPT was accurate about this...PR (and the others) sat around looking at pictures of JB that morning...I've seen that done so many times after a loved one has passed...it's a common thing to do,as it feels like the pics are all you have left of them.That was a big tip-off to me.(NOT that the others were guilty though!)

Yes, all that the Ramsey's did, concerning Burke, was to "check on him"....shoot, I would be shaking him awake, and saying..."Your sister has been kidnapped...did you hear or see ANYTHING?" "Quick, get out of the bedroom, the kidnappers could still be here, hiding under your bed, or in the closet....we need to get you outta here, son". "THINK, THINK....did you hear ANYTHING last night? Any noises? Any voices?" But NOOOOO....JR just went in there to "check on him".

I saw the movie PMPT, but had forgotten about that...Patsy and the others looking at JB's pictures. Now, thats very "productive" ...now isn't it. Why search the house or the neighborhood, when they could be looking at pictures of JB? Geesh....

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Good point about waking Burke up. If I found my youngest child gone, I'd wake up everyone else in the house and question them thoroughly as to anything they may have heard or seen...especially if there was a ransom note. The RN tells you someone was here, and that the child didn't just wander off, and that whoever came in and left the note may have made some noise or been seen by someone else. Heck, I'd be interrogating my pets if I thought I could get info from them!

Oh my lord, if I went over to my friend's house after her child had been kidnapped, looking at photos would be the LAST thing I'd be doing...I'd be searching for whatever I could find that would help us find the child, and I'd tell my friend to do the same! We're working with a window here - the longer the child is gone, the higher the chances s/he will be killed. Every second that clicks by damns the child even harder - looking at pictures isn't going to get her found. It is, however, exactly what I would expect from a parent who knows their child is dead.

 

[Ames]

<snipped>
It is, however, exactly what I would expect from a parent who knows their child is dead.

Bingo....I totally agree!

 

[Solace]

Yes, all that the Ramsey's did, concerning Burke, was to "check on him"....shoot, I would be shaking him awake, and saying..."Your sister has been kidnapped...did you hear or see ANYTHING?" "Quick, get out of the bedroom, the kidnappers could still be here, hiding under your bed, or in the closet....we need to get you outta here, son". "THINK, THINK....did you hear ANYTHING last night? Any noises? Any voices?" But NOOOOO....JR just went in there to "check on him". I saw the movie PMPT, but had forgotten about that...Patsy and the others looking at JB's pictures. Now, thats very "productive" ...now isn't it. Why search the house or the neighborhood, when they could be looking at pictures of JB? Geesh....

DEFINITELY, Ames. Here is another situation where there IS NO WAY I WOULD LET MY SON SLEEP IF MY DAUGHTER WERE MISSING. You can't make this #$#% up. No one would believe it if it were a movie. The reaction would be, interesting movie, but not very realistic - what parent would let the other child sleep if there had been a kidnapping.

Only in the Ramsey house does this happen. John and Patsy are just too cool to wake him up, why disturb him, he doesn't need it - ("But what if he knows something"), Nah, let him sleep. - But what if he heard something? Nah, let him sleep. In fact don't ask him anything at all. Nothing. Just let him sleep.

This is some of the reason why I do not believe John and Patsy. Because they are absolutely full of it.

 

[Solace]

Good point about waking Burke up. If I found my youngest child gone, I'd wake up everyone else in the house and question them thoroughly as to anything they may have heard or seen...especially if there was a ransom note. The RN tells you someone was here, and that the child didn't just wander off, and that whoever came in and left the note may have made some noise or been seen by someone else. Heck, I'd be interrogating my pets if I thought I could get info from them!

Oh my lord, if I went over to my friend's house after her child had been kidnapped, looking at photos would be the LAST thing I'd be doing...I'd be searching for whatever I could find that would help us find the child, and I'd tell my friend to do the same! We're working with a window here - the longer the child is gone, the higher the chances s/he will be killed. Every second that clicks by damns the child even harder - looking at pictures isn't going to get her found. It is, however, exactly what I would expect from a parent who knows their child is dead.

It really is bizarre that they were able to pass this behavior off as normal and get people to defend it. I am trying to imagine myself looking at pictures if I thought my child was kidnapped and WAS still expecting a call from the kidnappers. The pictures would drive me insane. No, I would be by the police's side every second asking a zillion questions.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I think Patsy would have been right up LE's butt from minute one demanding no stone be left unturned and no resource left untapped if she had actually thought JonBenet had been kidnapped and was being held for ransom. I do not believe Patsy or John would have allowed Burke to leave their house, either, if they had honestly believed a kidnapper ready to decapitate JonBenet was monitoring their house. I'm pretty sure Patsy would have mentioned the dire death threats made in the RN when she called 911, too, asking them to be as discreet as possible, and would not have risked JB's life by calling over a passel of friends for support. That is, if she had actually thought the RN was real.

 

[laini]

Yes, all that the Ramsey's did, concerning Burke, was to "check on him"....shoot, I would be shaking him awake, and saying..."Your sister has been kidnapped...did you hear or see ANYTHING?" "Quick, get out of the bedroom, the kidnappers could still be here, hiding under your bed, or in the closet....we need to get you outta here, son". "THINK, THINK....did you hear ANYTHING last night? Any noises? Any voices?" But NOOOOO....JR just went in there to "check on him".

Good point! I hadn't thought of that. If the Ramsey's didn't know who took their daughter as they claim, why didn't they question Burke about anything recently that was suspicous, anybody hanging around, odd phone calls, etc.. If my child was missing under those circumstances I would be saying to my son "Anythign! Is there anything odd you remember? Any weird people?..." Etc....

I would also run around the outside of my house/yard I am sure.

 

[Ames]

<snipped>
Only in the Ramsey house does this happen. John and Patsy are just too cool to wake him up, why disturb him, he doesn't need it - ("But what if he knows something"), Nah, let him sleep. - But what if he heard something? Nah, let him sleep. In fact don't ask him anything at all. Nothing. Just let him sleep.

This is some of the reason why I do not believe John and Patsy. Because they are absolutely full of it.

Yep, that was a very strange move on the part of the Ramseys....apparently Burke's sleep was way more important to them, than finding their daughter....OR getting Burkes little butt out of that room. (How did they know that the kidnapper wasn't hiding under his bed, or in his closet....they knew...because they knew that there wasn't any kidnapper....IMO).

 

[Ames]

It really is bizarre that they were able to pass this behavior off as normal and get people to defend it. I am trying to imagine myself looking at pictures if I thought my child was kidnapped and WAS still expecting a call from the kidnappers. The pictures would drive me insane. No, I would be by the police's side every second asking a zillion questions.

ME TOO...and AFTER turning the house upside down, I would be running around the neighborhood and knocking on everyone's flippin' door...asking if they had seen JB. I would be a crazy woman in the streets!!!

 

[Ames]

I think Patsy would have been right up LE's butt from minute one demanding no stone be left unturned and no resource left untapped if she had actually thought JonBenet had been kidnapped and was being held for ransom. I do not believe Patsy or John would have allowed Burke to leave their house, either, if they had honestly believed a kidnapper ready to decapitate JonBenet was monitoring their house. I'm pretty sure Patsy would have mentioned the dire death threats made in the RN when she called 911, too, asking them to be as discreet as possible, and would not have risked JB's life by calling over a passel of friends for support. That is, if she had actually thought the RN was real.

From day one, they didn't act too concerned with finding JB's killer. Kinda like OJ Simpson (thats another topic though). I have always thought that their interviews were quite strange. Sure, Patsy cried....BUT...still seemed just a bit cold and unfeeling for a woman that just had found her six year old murdered...and then theres John, with that forever smirk on his face. Theres a video on youtube, of Patsy crying on John's shoulder....and John is actually SMILING!?!?! How insane is THAT? Oh, and Patsy's makeup...oh, now DON'T get me started on that one. Her caked on makeup that she was wearing during that very first interview...it looked like a mask. Yes, I know that the makeup doesn't make her guilty...BUT...I thought it was a little bit odd. I don't care if I was going to be on national tv, international tv....or be broadcasted on the moon....if my daughter had been murdered just days before my interview, the last thing on my mind would be caking on makeup. I would just be too distraught to even think about wearing it. I am certain that I would look like a total hag....but, that would be okay, because I would have the right to look haggard...because my baby had just been murdered.

 

[Ames]

Good point! I hadn't thought of that. If the Ramsey's didn't know who took their daughter as they claim, why didn't they question Burke about anything recently that was suspicous, anybody hanging around, odd phone calls, etc.. If my child was missing under those circumstances I would be saying to my son "Anythign! Is there anything odd you remember? Any weird people?..." Etc....

I would also run around the outside of my house/yard I am sure.

If it had of been me...I would have been screaming at him and shaking him..."SON, SON....WAKE UP....YOUR SISTER HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED". Now, THAT would be me....and those questions that you would ask, I also would ask. But, John....and Patsy....NO, they wanted to make sure that he was "well rested"...because apparently his sleep was more important than finding out if he had heard or seen anything out of the ordinary. (Funny thing....when he was questioned by the investigators, he said that he had heard noises and some voices (his mom's and dads), outside his room.) Now why didn't the Ramsey's think to ask him that?

Yep, as I have stated in earlier posts...I would have been running around the house AND the neighborhood...BANGING on people's doors, asking them if they had seen JB or ANYTHING or ANYONE out of the ordinary. The heck with just sitting around looking at pictures of JB.

 

[narlacat]

I know that it has been disgusted about what Patsy was wearing the morning of Dec. 26th ( she wore the same clothes she did the night before) I am wondering what John was wearing on the morning of the 26.
In every interview John states that when he heard Patsy screaming he ran down stairs in his underwear and after Patsy called the police he went upstairs to get dressed.
Does anyone know if he put back on the same clothes as he had on the night before? Or did he change into a different outfit?

I havent followed this whole thread and I can't remember what JR had on that day, or if they were the same clothes, but

What I find strange is, one of them had a shower and one didn't, why?

 

[UKGuy]

I havent followed this whole thread and I can't remember what JR had on that day, or if they were the same clothes, but

What I find strange is, one of them had a shower and one didn't, why?

narlacat,

That you do not really know, since this is the Ramsey version of events, and it may not coincide with the forensic evidence?

Applying kiss and occcam, John showered to remove forensic evidence, Patsy declined since her clothes already carried traces from her visit to the White's along with JonBenet.

Digging deeper, Patsy may have showered in the same shower as John used, but before him, then she dressed in her old clothes, either washing out or placing her former clothing in a drawer or hanging them up?

You dont really believe Patsy nonchantly, even inadvertently, or with a degree of seasonal disregard, chose to redress herself in the same clothing worn the night before, using the same reasoning as Brooklyn Willie Sutton who is alleged When asked why he robbed banks, Sutton simply replied, "Because that's where the money is.", e.g. thats where the clothes were?

The usual assumption that because Patsy was wearing the same clothes the following morning that she wore the night before, means she must have worn them all night is a good example of flawed logic.

Also if Steve Thomas' Toilet Rage theory is correct then it follows that Patsy did not rise to deal with JonBenet dressed in the clothes she wore the night before.

Subtle details like these e.g. JonBenet left wearing urine-soaked clothing suggests Steve Thomas' theory is more scaffolding for his book than a realistic version of events, and that he has further redacted evidence, and a, as yet unspoken personal theory on why JonBenet was killed, as do the other investigators, who also have not yet vocalized their thoughts.



Willie Sutton:
http://www.fbi.gov/libref/historic/famcases/sutton/sutton.htm


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