What was John wearing the morning of Dec. 26?

[coloradokares]

That's your best answer? A lot of posters think the paintbrush wasn't needed for your so called staging, that the cord was enough.
Just because I think she was actually strangled with the cord and the paintbrush was a symbol of Patsy's anger, but you think it is all staging, so you discredit my theory as nonsense.
You don't even have a real explanation for the paintbrush. Yet everyone seems to think it points to Patsy as the creator of this strangling device.

I thought this sight was different. It seemed to be the only one where everyone believes the Ramseys are guilty. But I guess it's not open for discusion if we don't agree with you're theory. So that give you the right to say my opinions are just nonsense.

Honestly Toaster I Coloradokares am not quite sure yet what I make of your posts. But that is only me and I certainly never meant to infer any disrespect towards your right to believe whatever it is you do. If you have taken it that way please be reasured I value each opinion here, those that would agree with me or fellow posters that feel similarly and those who don't. I think I was leaning towards thinking your posts were for somekind of "shockvalue" with the satanist posts and stuff. But if you seriously feel that Christmas would be a great day to make a sacrifice to pay homage to Satan and JonBenet was a sacrifice. I don't want to infer any less respect to you for stating your opinion if its based in your honest opinion vs an attempt to provide chilling shock value. And I apologize again for I have been on forums where a couple select posters have done abundant amounts of just that. Please accept my apology, I will honestly try to correct my thoughts towards your posts and see your total sincerity in them. However I don't feel satanic sacrifice was behind JonBenet's murder. If you have some proof of why you feel that way would you please share your information links etc. thanks ck

 

[Solace]

Honestly Toaster I Coloradokares am not quite sure yet what I make of your posts. But that is only me and I certainly never meant to infer any disrespect towards your right to believe whatever it is you do. If you have taken it that way please be reasured I value each opinion here, those that would agree with me or fellow posters that feel similarly and those who don't. I think I was leaning towards thinking your posts were for somekind of "shockvalue" with the satanist posts and stuff. But if you seriously feel that Christmas would be a great day to make a sacrifice to pay homage to Satan and JonBenet was a sacrifice. I don't want to infer any less respect to you for stating your opinion if its based in your honest opinion vs an attempt to provide chilling shock value. And I apologize again for I have been on forums where a couple select posters have done abundant amounts of just that. Please accept my apology, I will honestly try to correct my thoughts towards your posts and see your total sincerity in them. However I don't feel satanic sacrifice was behind JonBenet's murder. If you have some proof of why you feel that way would you please share your information links etc. thanks ck

Colorado you are a better poster than I. I am going to leave my post as is, just because I can't get behind the satanist thing AT ALL.

But Colorado you have offered this Board so much that I am grateful when you appear. Keep doing it. Thanks, Solace

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab,

but the seventeen-inch (!) space of cord between the wrist ligatures would have allowed JB to move her hands. The fact that her hands were tied so loosely together is just another indicator of staging imo.

rashomon,

There were ligatures both on JonBenet's neck and on her wrists. Ligatures, of course, are slip knots and thus able to slide and be adjustable.

The ligature around the neck originally had a loop through which the cord passed, similar to a lasso, which could then be tightened and loosened at will, and thus was able to be used, and IMO was used, as an erotic asphyxiation device. However, IMO, the EA device accidentally asphyxiated her. During the staging phase of this crime which followed the accidental death, to coverup the sexual aspects and make it look like the work of a foreign terrorist, the perp viciously yanked on the cord which collapsed the loop into a tight knot and simultaneously imbedded the cord deeply into the skin.

The ligature around the wrists was designed differently. It was anchored on the right wrist, and when also wrapped around the left wrists and tightened, pressure on it firmly secured both wrists together. But when pressure on the ligature was removed the ligature automatically loosened. The design suggests that JonBenet had been strung up by the wrist ligature, with the weight of her body keeping the wrists tightly lashed together. But when John carried JonBenet upstairs from the basement the ligature automatically loosened completely and fell off her left wrist, but remained on her right wrist.

Incidentally,

The 17" long cord was not attached to the wrist ligature. The 17" cord was the one that reached from the neck ligature and ended with the wooden handle tied to the end of it.

The wrist ligature attached to the right wrist had two tail ends extending from the knot, one 5.5 " long; and one 15.5" long that ended in a double loop knot.

BlueCrab

 

[coloradokares]

Colorado you are a better poster than I. I am going to leave my post as is, just because I can't get behind the satanist thing AT ALL.

But Colorado you have offered this Board so much that I am grateful when you appear. Keep doing it. Thanks, Solace

Not so..... but I am here so good or bad..... Till they bubble the tar and pluck the chickens:chicken: I am going to stand for Justice for JonBenet.

 

[Solace]

rashomon,

There were ligatures both on JonBenet's neck and on her wrists. Ligatures are slip knots and thus able to slide and be adjustable.

The ligature around the neck originally had a loop through which the cord passed, similar to a lasso, which couldthen be tightened and loosened at will, and thus was able to be used, and was used, as an erotic asphyxiation device. However, IMO, the EA device accidentally asphyxiated her. During the staging phase of this crime which followed the accidental death, to coverup the sexual aspects and make it look like the work of a foreign terrorist, the perp viciously yanked on the cord which collapsed the loop into a tight knot and also imbedded the cord deeply into the skin.

The ligature around the wrists was designed differently. It was anchored on the right wrist, and when also wrapped around the left wrists and tightened, pressure on it firmly secured both wrists together. But when pressure on the ligature was removed the ligature automatically loosened. The design suggests that JonBenet had been strung up by the wrist ligature, with the weight of her body keeping the wrists tightly lashed together. But when John carried JonBenet upstairs from the basement the ligature automatically loosened completely and fell off her left wrist but remained on her right wrist.

BlueCrab

I don't think so.

 

[BBB167893]

SD, one problem I have with Patsy wearing the same clothes. If Patsy was wearing them all night and killed JonBenet in them and staged the scene in them and wrote the note, would not it be obvious from her clothes that she wore them all night and never went to bed. I would think she would be a mess. What do you think?

I think it would depend on what she was in contact with and how long it took her.

Well if you think it's nonsense, you must have a good reason Patsy used a paintbrush of hers for this noose thing that isn't nonsense?

I'm halfway interested in this line of thinking. But I'm stumped for now.

 

[Ames]

Honestly Toaster I Coloradokares am not quite sure yet what I make of your posts. But that is only me and I certainly never meant to infer any disrespect towards your right to believe whatever it is you do. If you have taken it that way please be reasured I value each opinion here, those that would agree with me or fellow posters that feel similarly and those who don't. I think I was leaning towards thinking your posts were for somekind of "shockvalue" with the satanist posts and stuff. But if you seriously feel that Christmas would be a great day to make a sacrifice to pay homage to Satan and JonBenet was a sacrifice. I don't want to infer any less respect to you for stating your opinion if its based in your honest opinion vs an attempt to provide chilling shock value. And I apologize again for I have been on forums where a couple select posters have done abundant amounts of just that. Please accept my apology, I will honestly try to correct my thoughts towards your posts and see your total sincerity in them. However I don't feel satanic sacrifice was behind JonBenet's murder. If you have some proof of why you feel that way would you please share your information links etc. thanks ck

CK...Toaster's comment about Christmas being a great day to make a sacrifice...sounds familiar to me. Does it you? Another certain poster...on another certain board....that shall remain nameless.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

CK...Toaster's comment about Christmas being a great day to make a sacrifice...sounds familiar to me. Does it you? Another certain poster...on another certain board....that shall remain nameless.

Lol, Ames, I hear you loud and clear. That's why I asked if any Muslims were involved.

 

[kaykay]

rashomon,

There were ligatures both on JonBenet's neck and on her wrists. Ligatures, of course, are slip knots and thus able to slide and be adjustable.

The ligature around the neck originally had a loop through which the cord passed, similar to a lasso, which could then be tightened and loosened at will, and thus was able to be used, and IMO was used, as an erotic asphyxiation device. However, IMO, the EA device accidentally asphyxiated her. During the staging phase of this crime which followed the accidental death, to coverup the sexual aspects and make it look like the work of a foreign terrorist, the perp viciously yanked on the cord which collapsed the loop into a tight knot and simultaneously imbedded the cord deeply into the skin.

The ligature around the wrists was designed differently. It was anchored on the right wrist, and when also wrapped around the left wrists and tightened, pressure on it firmly secured both wrists together. But when pressure on the ligature was removed the ligature automatically loosened. The design suggests that JonBenet had been strung up by the wrist ligature, with the weight of her body keeping the wrists tightly lashed together. But when John carried JonBenet upstairs from the basement the ligature automatically loosened completely and fell off her left wrist, but remained on her right wrist.

Incidentally,

The 17" long cord was not attached to the wrist ligature. The 17" cord was the one that reached from the neck ligature and ended with the wooden handle tied to the end of it.

The wrist ligature attached to the right wrist had two tail ends extending from the knot, one 5.5 " long; and one 15.5" long that ended in a double loop knot.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

Just curious, if JB was strung up by her wrist and her body was stiff when JR
brought her from the basement wouldn't her elbows be locked in a stright up position?

Was this ever mentioned?

Another curious thought, if this was EA game why would anyone think a six year old child would be pleasured by this?

Thanks for your input,
kaykay

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab,

Just curious, if JB was strung up by her wrist and her body was stiff when JR
brought her from the basement wouldn't her elbows be locked in a stright up position?

Was this ever mentioned?

Another curious thought, if this was EA game why would anyone think a six year old child would be pleasured by this?

Thanks for your input,
kaykay

kaykay,

It appears JonBenet may have been strung up in a slumped sitting position, with arms over her head and lashed to something stationary such as a piece of furniture or a doorknob. The settling of the livor mortis seems to support this scenario. With the weight of the upper torso keeping the ligatures tight, IMO when John found her he had to cut her down. This created two separate lengths of cord, each with frayed ends as described in the autopsy.

When and if John found JonBenet as I just described, rigor mortis had not yet fully set in. IMO John found her around 2 to 3 AM. It takes about 12 hours for rigor to fully set (JonBenet was in full rigor when "found" by John shortly ater 1 PM).

IMO the children were experimenting with erotic asphyxiation, a dangerous breath contol sex game. JonBenet died accidentally because the children didn't know what they were doing. The elaborate device wrapped around JonBenet's neck was NOT designed as a garrote. It was designed to do exactly what it was being used for, erotic asphyxiation.

Garrotes are killing tools. Real garrotes are not elaborate. They are nothing but a straight length of cord or wire that is wrapped around a victim's neck from behind, pulled tight, and held until the victim gives up struggling and dies.

BlueCrab

 

[Solace]

kaykay,

It appears JonBenet may have been strung up in a slumped sitting position, with arms over her head and lashed to something stationary such as a piece of furniture or a doorknob. The settling of the livor mortis seems to support this scenario. With the weight of the upper torso keeping the ligatures tight, IMO when John found her he had to cut her down. This created two separate lengths of cord, each with frayed ends as described in the autopsy.

When and if John found JonBenet as I just described, rigor mortis had not yet fully set in. IMO John found her around 2 to 3 AM. It takes about 12 hours for rigor to fully set (JonBenet was in full rigor when "found" by John shortly ater 1 PM).

IMO the children were experimenting with erotic asphyxiation, a dangerous breath contol sex game. JonBenet died accidentally because the children didn't know what they were doing. The elaborate device wrapped around JonBenet's neck was NOT designed as a garrote. It was designed to do exactly what it was being used for, erotic asphyxiation.

Garrotes are killing tools. Real garrotes are not elaborate. They are nothing but a straight length of cord or wire that is wrapped around a victim's neck from behind, pulled tight, and held until the victim gives up struggling and dies.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab: In your opinion, you believe the "children" were downstairs in the basement tying JonBenet up and experimenting with erotic asphyxiation. What I don't understand is why no one seems to have a problem with this and is ready willing and able to accept your theory. It is incredible to me. Yet when Veronica and I pose a theory on corporal punishment from Patsy, supported by the lead detective on the case, who had at least 10 years experience with these types of cases, everyone is shocked and at times even angry.

With all due respect BlueCrab, in your dreams this happened. No way. Patsy did it and covered it up and John helped her.

 

[coloradokares]

Lol, Ames, I hear you loud and clear. That's why I asked if any Muslims were involved.

I could name this hat from four different boards on this particular poster. Does not take Rocket Science every time this poster goes to a keyboard you can recognize who it is as surely as Patsy was apparently the writer of the Mother of all Ransom notes....... However getting back to this particular poster be aware I personally am loosing my sense of humor totally after that post on 1st post SBTC thread post number #37 page 2 Frankly I am at a loss as what to do but feel something has to be done to stop this insanity ...... I may just leave the boards all together. Nothing is worth this. I mean this is over the top even for this poster don't you think?

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab: In your opinion, you believe the "children" were downstairs in the basement tying JonBenet up and experimenting with erotic asphyxiation. What I don't understand is why no one seems to have a problem with this and is ready willing and able to accept your theory. It is incredible to me. Yet when Veronica and I pose a theory on corporal punishment from Patsy, supported by the lead detective on the case, who had at least 10 years experience with these types of cases, everyone is shocked and at times even angry.

With all due respect BlueCrab, in your dreams this happened. No way. Patsy did it and covered it up and John helped her.

Solace,

The Ramsey case was Steve Thomas' first murder case. His previous experience revolved mainly around busting brain-dead druggies.

Please provide one item of credible evidence that Patsy killed JonBenet. Thanks.

BlueCrab

 

[Solace]

Solace,

The Ramsey case was Steve Thomas' first murder case. His previous experience revolved mainly around busting brain-dead druggies.

Please provide one item of credible evidence that Patsy killed JonBenet. Thanks.

BlueCrab

It was not his first kidnap case though. One of cases is finding a two year old who was kidnapped and molested for two days before they found her. I guess that is no big deal though. There will be no credit for that.


Circumstantially, the fibers on back of the tape over JonBenet's mouth is fairly incriminating.

Blue Crab, you are losing this one as fast as a lion can flick its tail.

 

[BlueCrab]

Circumstantially, the fibers on back of the tape over JonBenet's mouth is fairly incriminating.

Solace,

Microscopic fibers from family members are everywhere in a house. There were hundreds of other microscopic fibers on the sticky side of the tape besides the few from Patsy's jacket. The tape had been handled by the killer, and dropped onto the floor by John Ramsey and later again by Fleet White. Lord knows where the tape had been prior to it being placed on JonBenet's mouth.

But IMO that is all mute because Patsy and John helped in the staging of this crime and the coverup, trying to make it appear to be a kidnapping gone wrong instead of what it really was -- an embarrassing accidental EA death involving children. The fiber transfers from her jacket likely occurred during the staging.

BlueCrab

 

[rashomon]

rashomon,
Ligatures, of course, are slip knots and thus able to slide and be adjustable.
BlueCrab

BlueCrab,
I don't think the term 'ligature' is limited to slip knots.

The design suggests that JonBenet had been strung up by the wrist ligature, with the weight of her body keeping the wrists tightly lashed together.

The forensic eveidence contradicts this, since no marks from the ligature were found on JB's wrists, and there would have been marks if she had been strung up.

Incidentally,

The 17" long cord was not attached to the wrist ligature. The 17" cord was the one that reached from the neck ligature and ended with the wooden handle tied to the end of it.

The wrist ligature attached to the right wrist had two tail ends extending from the knot, one 5.5 " long; and one 15.5" long that ended in a double loop knot.

Ok, so there was a 15.5 inch space from one wrist ligature to the other. Still plenty of room for the victim to move her hands.

And take a good hard look at those wrist ligatures, BlueCrab: they are a joke. One had already come off, being too big for the wrist, and the other was tied on top of the sleeve with a knot probably so loose that pulling at one end would immediately have caused the knot to come apart with no effort at all.

http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenethandright.jpg

It is even more obvious in this photo:

http://www.acandyrose.com/garrote5.jpg

The "double loop ligature" looks exactly like a simple shoelace type knot. I think even laypersons can imagine what happens when you pull at one end of that "sophisticated" knot: it gets undone in no time.

However, IMO, the EA device accidentally asphyxiated her.

If JB had died from asphyxiation first, no bleeding and swelling in her brain could have occurred. But since both were present, the forensic evidence indicates that the head injury came first. Even die-hard IDIs on other forums (CourtTV's Crimelibrary for example) have come to realize this.

 

[Solace]

BlueCrab,
I don't think the term 'ligature' is limited to slip knots.
The forensic eveidence contradicts this, since no marks from the ligature were found on JB's wrists, and there would have been marks if she had been strung up.

Ok, so there was a 15.5 inch space from one wrist ligature to the other. Still plenty of room for the victim to move her hands.

And take a good hard look at those wrist ligatures, BlueCrab: they are a joke. One had already come off, being too big for the wrist, and the other was tied on top of the sleeve with a knot probably so loose that pulling at one end would immediately have caused the knot to come apart with no effort at all.

http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenethandright.jpg
It is even more obvious in this photo:

http://www.acandyrose.com/garrote5.jpg

The "double loop ligature" looks exactly like a simple shoelace type knot. I think even laypersons can imagine what happens when you pull at one end of that "sophisticated" knot: it gets undone in no time.

If JB had died from ashophyxiation first, no bleeding and swelling in her brain could have occurred. But since both were present, the forensic evidence indicates that the head injury came first. Even die-hard IDIs on other forums (CourtTV's Crimelibrary for example) have come to realize this.

Rash tells it like it is Blue Crab.

 

[BBB167893]

But IMO that is all mute because Patsy and John helped in the staging of this crime and the coverup, trying to make it appear to be a kidnapping gone wrong instead of what it really was -- an embarrassing accidental EA death involving children. The fiber transfers from her jacket likely occurred during the staging.

So what are you beefing about?

 

[BlueCrab]

Rashomon,

From the 1998 interviews:

JOHN RAMSEY: "And I tried to untie her arms; they were tied up behind her head."

LOU SMIT: "Were they tied tight?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "Yeah. Very tight."

LOU SMIT: "How do you know they were tied tight?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "Because they were -- you know, her skin was swollen around. And they were not easy to get off. I tried to untie them quickly and I just picked her up and carried her upstairs. ... And later there I tried to untie the knot further, and Linda Arndt stopped me from doing it."

LOU SMIT: "The knot?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "Right."

.....

IN THE BASEMENT:

JOHN RAMSEY: "Her head was tilted to one side. I was trying to hold her head."

MIKE KANE: "I'm not really clear -- you said the hands were tied tight. But were her hands tied closely together or were they wide apart?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "No, it was like that."

MIKE KANE: "They were crossed like that?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "I remember, yeah, her hands were close together."

MIKE KANE: "And you tried to untie one of them. Were you successful?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "Partly."

BlueCrab

 

[Solace]

Rashomon,

From the 1998 interviews:

JOHN RAMSEY: "And I tried to untie her arms; they were tied up behind her head."

LOU SMIT: "Were they tied tight?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "Yeah. Very tight."

LOU SMIT: "How do you know they were tied tight?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "Because they were -- you know, her skin was swollen around. And they were not easy to get off. I tried to untie them quickly and I just picked her up and carried her upstairs. ... And later there I tried to untie the knot further, and Linda Arndt stopped me from doing it."

LOU SMIT: "The knot?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "Right."

.....

IN THE BASEMENT:

JOHN RAMSEY: "Her head was tilted to one side. I was trying to hold her head."

MIKE KANE: "I'm not really clear -- you said the hands were tied tight. But were her hands tied closely together or were they wide apart?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "No, it was like that."

MIKE KANE: "They were crossed like that?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "I remember, yeah, her hands were close together."

MIKE KANE: "And you tried to untie one of them. Were you successful?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "Partly."

BlueCrab

Right, and we know how John always tells the truth BlueCrab. Oh and one more thing, later on John says they were loosely tied.