Where is Madeleine? Where is she?

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I called it a meme, not a quotation.

And yes, there is definitely the sense that they had it coming ... you leave your kids alone, and you deserve what you get.
I couln't disagree more.

There is a huge difference between addressing the neglegent behavior on their part and claiming Maddie deserved to be harmed for it. Something horrible has happend to MADDIE, no one had ever claimed she deserved to be harmed simply because her parnets put her in that position. It is offensive that you would make such an accusation.
There are posts about them NOT being victims, because of their actions. And the posters who criticize them the most for leaving the kids alone are generally the posters who tend to believe they are the killers, as well.
Since many believe the victim here is Maddie has little or nothing to do with the fact that they were neglegent. It would appear that many times prior to this their poor choices did not have a tragic outcome.

When an unsupervised child is harmed, I do not accept that somehow the careless adult is too a victim. How can you be a victim of your own bad decisions when someone else had paid the price, most likely in this case with her life? That aside, Maddie is the victim, they are the victims parents, jmo.

Believing they are guilty of more then bad parenting is harder than blindly pretending they are innocent becuase it's what you want to be true. You try to find reasons to defend the McCanns while I try to find what happened to Maddie - I don't care who did it, you care that they did not do it.
Now, statistically speaking, they ARE more likely to have something to do with it than not. But that's all I'm willing to say at this point ....
No, you've accused others of being on a witch-hunt and put words in our mouths.
 
I couln't disagree more.

There is a huge difference between addressing the neglegent behavior on their part and claiming Maddie deserved to be harmed for it. Something horrible has happend to MADDIE, no one had ever claimed she deserved to be harmed simply because her parnets put her in that position. It is offensive that you would make such an accusation.

I believe the poster insinuated that the "parents" had something coming to them for their negligent behavior, NOT Maddy.
 
I couln't disagree more.

There is a huge difference between addressing the neglegent behavior on their part and claiming Maddie deserved to be harmed for it. Something horrible has happend to MADDIE, no one had ever claimed she deserved to be harmed simply because her parnets put her in that position. It is offensive that you would make such an accusation.

Since many believe the victim here is Maddie has little or nothing to do with the fact that they were neglegent. It would appear that many times prior to this their poor choices did not have a tragic outcome.

When an unsupervised child is harmed, I do not accept that somehow the careless adult is too a victim. How can you be a victim of your own bad decisions when someone else had paid the price, most likely in this case with her life? That aside, Maddie is the victim, they are the victims parents, jmo.

Believing they are guilty of more then bad parenting is harder than blindly pretending they are innocent becuase it's what you want to be true. You try to find reasons to defend the McCanns while I try to find what happened to Maddie - I don't care who did it, you care that they did not do it.

No, you've accused others of being on a witch-hunt and put words in our mouths.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
 
I believe the poster insinuated that the "parents" had something coming to them for their negligent behavior, NOT Maddy.
Sure, but the connection is flawed.

Having their kids taken by social services or being brought up on charges is something coming to them.

Having Maddie harmed is something totally different and separate. Tying to make the connection, imo, is deliberately offensive.
 
I am trying to respectfully understand the reasoning of some posters. If no matter what you do (leave the door locked or unlocked, leave your kids alone or supervised, etc etc etc) a perp can break in and take your child ....then why do we even bother with alarms, locks in our doors, babysitters and alarms in our cars, baby monitors, etc??? :confused:

Guys, I sincerely think we need to use a little common sense here. I mean, I can be walking down the road now and a car can run to me and kill me...does it mean I am going to purposely walk in the middle of the road to wait for that car to kill me??? No, unless I am an idiot.

This exact same reasoning applies here. Just because a perp can break in anyways and take your child no matter what you do ( unless you are an idiot or don't care at all about your kids) you are NOT going to leave the doors open and three tots under 3 by themselves in a foreign country!!!!!!!! because....if "happens, will happen anyways with or without supervision"

I do not think ANY of us reason like this, now do we? :rolleyes:

I wouldn't leave thee tots alone, ever, much less at night with a door unlocked, and would not do this even in my own country. How 2 educated people could do this is beyond me.

The world has never been a safe place, not even in the 50's and 60's.
 
I believe the parents had something to do with Madeleine's disappearance above and beyond leaving the children unsupervised.

I do not believe they "had it coming". And I definitely do NOT think Maddie had it coming or got what she deserved.

Madeleine is a baby, an innocent victim. No matter how "hysterical" she might have been or how much she did or didn't obey her mother or how much she cried.

She is as much a victim of her parents' neglect as from anything a possible perp might have done to her.
 
Sure, but the connection is flawed.

Having their kids taken by social services or being brought up on charges is something coming to them.

Having Maddie harmed is something totally different and separate. Tying to make the connection, imo, is deliberately offensive.

Yes, but I'm not willing to try and guess what these folks are thinking, nor do I think any of us can.
 
Yes, but I'm not willing to try and guess what these folks are thinking, nor do I think any of us can.
You lost me. What folks?, is my point.

Pinto implied some here feel they had it coming. There is no guessing, Pinto was clear with her accusations.


Originally Posted by pinto
I called it a meme, not a quotation.

And yes, there is definitely the sense that they had it coming
 
You lost me. What folks?, is my point.

Pinto implied some here feel they had it coming. There is no guessing, Pinto was clear with her accusations.

Sorry, I'm working on minus zero sleep, so I may not be making much sense. By "folks," I mean the famiy and the posters here.
 
Sorry, I'm working on minus zero sleep, so I may not be making much sense. By "folks," I mean the famiy and the posters here.

Burning the candle at both ends again and then some?
Hope you get to catch up this weekend!

:blowkiss:
 
You lost me. What folks?, is my point.

Pinto implied some here feel they had it coming. There is no guessing, Pinto was clear with her accusations.

"Accusations" ... wow. I didn't think I'd been so strong. I'm pretty sure I wasn't. I was just pointing out that there has become a bit of a mob mentality against the parents because they were irresponsible and neglectful (which isn't even universally agreed upon: Times UK article).

To me, it is a lot like not wearing your seatbelt. Most of the time, you are completely safe. But if there's a problem, it can be catastrophic. I ALWAYS wear my seatbelt, and make sure my kids do too. But some people don't. I try not to judge too much. If someone I know loses a kid because they didn't have them in a carseat and had an accident, I will know that that was a stupid error, but I'm not going to think about it very much. I will pity them.

If it is later suggested that the parent driving might have swerved into the other car on purpose, I might be pretty suspicious, but I'll make damn sure that it isn't just a rumor before I start believing that the parent caused the accident.

That's all. It just seems that some are really, really willing to believe the worst about the McCanns because they made an error in judgment.
 
That's all. It just seems that some are really, really willing to believe the worst about the McCanns because they made an error in judgment.


I disagree. If they had "just" left the kids alone in that room night, after night, after night, that would be one thing. However, IF the evidence that has come to light is true, its a hell of a lot more serious than an error in judgment.
 
. . .That's all. It just seems that some are really, really willing to believe the worst about the McCanns because they made an error in judgment.
I think understand what you meant. I admit that the way the sentence was worded could easily be misread and misunderstood though. If I understood you correctly I agree with the sentiment you expressed. People need to try to separate their anger over the negligence issues from the issue of guilt or innocence of the actual crime of murder or kidnap or other criminal involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine. And if possible we need to try tamp down the strong emotions a bit as that can skew our thinking to the point that we might miss important clues if they do pop up to be noticed.

At the same time I also understand, as someone recently pointed out to me, that people are still human beings and in a case like this emotions often run high in spite of best efforts.

Edited to add: I acknowledge that it is also true that not all people that think the parents might be guilty of a crime are thinking that based solely on emotion. There has been a fairly good amount of evidence reported in the news. Whether that evidence is solid or not remains to be seen but it certainly has sounded very damning in its scope and nature so people have some reasons for thinking the parents might be guilty of a crime.
 
I think understand what you meant. I admit that the way the sentence was worded could easily be misread and misunderstood though. If I understood you correctly I agree with the sentiment you expressed. People need to try to separate their anger over the negligence issues from the issue of guilt or innocence of the actual crime of murder or kidnap or other criminal involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine. And if possible we need to try tamp down the strong emotions a bit as that can skew our thinking to the point that we might miss important clues if they do pop up to be noticed.

At the same time I also understand, as someone recently pointed out to me, that people are still human beings and in a case like this emotions often run high in spite of best efforts.

Are you a parent?
 
Yes! I don't have cats ,but I have a pet sitter when I go to a conference for five days & I call twice a day & end the conversation singing to Mocha (my 16 month GPS.) who licks the phone.
Quite seriously the young children or pets who depend on us for affection & protection & nourishment & comfort cannot be insecure in that all these things may suddenly stop. That, I think is why children act out. I don't believe in smothering, but parenting is a serious responsibility.
 
Do you get a petsitter for your cats when you go on vacation?
No offense meant but: I know where you are going with this and I am not taking any bait tonight. I have spoken my opinion and I am sticking to it. :)

Emotions can be strong but we must use care. Sometimes you have an unpleasant thing happen and you have to be able to not let the emotion you feel cause you to err.

Example: My wife has had AML (Leukemia) and after her bone marrow transplant she has had to undergo numerous bone marrow biopsies and still has to have them from time to time. Now in case you do not know what that entails let me tell you. It means they sedate her but not knock her clear out and they do use some shots to attempt to numb the area but the meds cant get deep enough to block everything. So she is awake when they use a tool similar to a tree core sampler, a long tool with a T handle that works like a cork screw to open a hole all the way to the bone in the back of her hip. She feels some of this and screams and hollers, especially when they get to the marrow of the bone and have to also draw off fluid because this negative pressure created by the suction of the fluid being removed is sensed as intense pain. (I am told the pain is more for some people and less for others, some people may not even feel pain.)

It is not unusual for my wife to holler and scream when this happens more than in other parts of the procedure. I am in the room while this is performed. Why? Because she requests it because it makes her feel better, more secure, if I am there.

They also have to get a small chunk of bone sample from deep inside the bone and so the doctor has to waggle that long tool back and forth fairly roughly, trying to get a piece of bone to snap off inside there. The snapping of a piece of bone has a distinct sound.

When I hear her cry from the pain and holler and moan it really gets to me but I have to refrain from allowing my emotion to cause me to stop the doctor from doing what he needs to do to get that marrow sample. It is not an easy thing for me to control but I manage it.

Fortunately for her, my wife only partly remembers what happened after the procedure. . . . . .but I always remember it all, every second of it.

So when I say emotions can be strong and can mislead us in some cases, I have some little experience in that.

Back to our case:
Do I understand people are upset at the parents seeming lack of watching over their children? Yes I get it. Do I think its possible that is a manipulation aspect of this case? Yes, it could be a tactic by the parents and if I am going to judge someones actions and understand those actions I want do it on my terms and not be manipulated by them.

If they are innocent then after the case is solved I will have time to worry about why they did or did not watch the children better and if they are guilty then we will all know why they did not watch better.

For now my focus is the case of missing Madeleine and the parents actions only matter to me as they relate to their guilt or innocence in criminal actions in causing her disappearance.
 
Wow, docwho, that is a lot for both of you to bear. Blessings and prayers for a continued remission for your wife.
 
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