Who Had Motive, Method & Opportunity?!

[iSleuth]

That's quite a leap in logic in RZ's case that doesn't make sense to me.

Can you cite a case where a parent revenged a child's death not only prior to the death of the child but also prior to LE even investigating it as a homicide?

JMO

almost

http://www.abc24.com/mostpopular/st...used-of-Molesting/EoDuSt_D9EOP9T9oXV2Acw.cspx

 

[iSleuth]

Hi IP... I greatly respect your opinion. The reason I do not think it was Jonah is the method. No way he would kill Rebecca leaving such a horrendous crime scene. That would just attract publicity big time. If he wanted Rebecca dead, I think he would have arranged a believable car wreck or something of that sort. I guess he could have lost it, but I don't think so. I think her murder was planned.

nods...execution. :-(

 

[MyBelle]

almost

http://www.abc24.com/mostpopular/st...used-of-Molesting/EoDuSt_D9EOP9T9oXV2Acw.cspx

BBM Your link supports what I posted.

Richmond says she did call police to report the coach but everything happened so fast.

“I was hoping the police made it to him before I did,” said Richmond. "He was saying he didn't do it and he was sorry. If you didn't do it why are you saying you're sorry? What are you sorry for?"

At the time of RZ's suicide, Dina was under the impression her son was injured in an accident. Max wasn't able to tell her what had happened.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

almost

http://www.abc24.com/mostpopular/st...used-of-Molesting/EoDuSt_D9EOP9T9oXV2Acw.cspx

Here's a similar one

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3Hyxuf5AE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3Hyxuf5AE[/ame]

It's not uncommon for parents to react violently against someone they think has harmed their child. Remember in the case of Max's accident, police had already been contacted and were conducting an investigation prior to RZ's death.

 

[MyBelle]

Here's a similar one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3Hyxuf5AE

It's not uncommon for parents to react violently against someone they think has harmed their child.

Please post a link to any report that concurs with your conclusion that at the time of RZ's suicide, Dina believed her child had been harmed intentionally by RZ.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

Please post a link to any report that concurs with your conclusion that at the time of RZ's suicide, Dina believed her child had been harmed intentionally by RZ.

JMO

I didn't say it was Dina. I agree with the others in this forum who say its still unknown which parent might have felt RZ was responsible for MS's death and felt compelled to retaliate. There are numerous interviews that Dina has given in the news media blaming RZ for his death.

 

[iSleuth]

BBM Your link supports what I posted.

Richmond says she did call police to report the coach but everything happened so fast.

“I was hoping the police made it to him before I did,” said Richmond. "He was saying he didn't do it and he was sorry. If you didn't do it why are you saying you're sorry? What are you sorry for?"

At the time of RZ's suicide, Dina was under the impression her son was injured in an accident. Max wasn't able to tell her what had happened.

JMO

exactly....and Dina wanted to know and Nina was adamant to know what happened. SHe has admitted she wanted/ needed to know so much so that she wanted to have a recreation of the accident very late at night after a very long ( horrible) day.

Nina was the very last person to contact RZ by txt and also admitted that she went to her house and around her house...the house of the victim- RZ the night that she "died". True Dina was " busy getting 12 hours of rest" or is that another filed under because DS and JS said so.

who had motive/opportunity

JMO

 

[inthedark14]

Please post a link to any report that concurs with your conclusion that at the time of RZ's suicide, Dina believed her child had been harmed intentionally by RZ.

JMO

I'm not so sure about that...in the "Boy Interrupted" article DS stated JS told her at the hospital that RZ had committed suicide, and she wondered why RZ would do that because MS was going to be fine. So she immediately thought that RZ would have killed herself over MS' being hurt. Because she supposedly thought MS would be ok, RZ had no reason to harm herself. Why would that be her first thought? Because she already thought RZ harmed MS.

The full article is available at http://www.phoenixmag.com/lifestyle/valley-news/201208/boy--interrupted-full-version/2/

<snipped>
Dina recalls. “I didn’t know what to say. I was like, ‘I’m so sorry.’ My next thought was ‘Why would she do that? Max is going to be fine.’ I still believed he would be OK.”



Always MOO

 

[time]

I'm not so sure about that...in the "Boy Interrupted" article DS stated JS told her at the hospital that RZ had committed suicide, and she wondered why RZ would do that because MS was going to be fine. So she immediately thought that RZ would have killed herself over MS' being hurt. Because she supposedly thought MS would be ok, RZ had no reason to harm herself. Why would that be her first thought? Because she already thought RZ harmed MS.

The full article is available at http://www.phoenixmag.com/lifestyle/valley-news/201208/boy--interrupted-full-version/2/

<snipped>
Dina recalls. “I didn’t know what to say. I was like, ‘I’m so sorry.’ My next thought was ‘Why would she do that? Max is going to be fine.’ I still believed he would be OK.”



Always MOO

I think somebody has herself in a catch-22 here. :floorlaugh:

 

[Inparadise]

I think somebody has herself in a catch-22 here. :floorlaugh:

I don't think that Dina ever believed that Max was going to be OK.

 

[Carioca]

I don't think that Dina ever believed that Max was going to be OK.

And it sure doesn't gel with the 7/13 12:50 a.m. voice mail allegedly informing Rebecca of Max's "grave condition and imminent death." So in this case we are to believe the mother is the last to know? IMHO, nope, don't think so...

 

[freespeech]

Please post a link to any report that concurs with your conclusion that at the time of RZ's suicide, Dina believed her child had been harmed intentionally by RZ.

JMO

Didn't Gore say that Jonah left Rebecca a nasty voice mail about Max's condition taking a turn for the worse right before her death? Wasn't Jonah and Dina supposedly at the hospital together with Max that night from aproximately 8:00 PM until 1:00AM the next morning?

Didn't Nina say in her audio interview that she wondered why Rebecca killed herself? I thought she said something to the effect of what did Rebecca do that she couldn't live with? Also, Nina had an attitude that Rebecca was hiding something. That's why she allegedly went to the house to question her that night.

Also, I thought that Dina stated that she sent Nina to the house that night to question Rebecca. Apparently Dina thought Rebecca withheld something too, no?

Feel free to correct me if wrong. Tia.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Can you cite a case where a woman committed suicide by hanging (and with a very long rope tied way inside the house), naked, outdoors, hands and feet bound with exotic knots, hands tied behind her back, on her period, mouth gagged, had to climb over a balcony railing to boot, and with a third person note painted on an interior door that appeared to be related to a death just 1 1/2 days before. Did I forget anything?

Didn't she make that final leap (eye roll) on only one toe?

 

[Carioca]

Didn't she make that final leap (eye roll) on only one toe?

Lest we forget she turned off the light and closed the door behind her..

 

[inthedark14]

Another odd thing from the "Boy Interrupted" article is that DS asked NR to go talk to RZ. She herself took 12+ hours to rest, and in that time did not want to go and talk to RZ herself? That is bizarre and doesn't add up. She had 12+ hours (yes, while being very distraught and dealing with something that none of us could possibly comprehend, I am NOT bashing or being mean, I have nothing but heartache for what she went through) to go and find out whatever small detail was left out, something missed or not reported, but she did not. Instead she said she asked her sister to go. Her sister who had met RZ only once or twice and who already felt RZ was "bizarre" for giving her a hug when she picked her and her son up from airport. A sister that was most likely aware of DS' intense dislike and mistrust for RZ. I cannot fathom while DS didn't simply ask NR to go with her and help support her while she spoke with the woman who had lived with her ex-husband and cared for her son for two years. Wouldn't she have wanted to be there and hear it first hand. Wouldn't RZ have been far more likely to speak with DS than with her sister?

The link to the article can be found at: http://www.phoenixmag.com/lifestyle/valley-news/201208/boy--interrupted-full-version/2/

<snipped>
So I asked Nina to go talk to Rebecca. Beg her on your hands and knees, if you have to. Ask her if there&#8217;s anything, anything, that might help Max. Some detail or something she left out [of the police report].&#8221;

In NR' interview she stated she played with RZ's phone (I don't think anyone has touched my phone besides the DH to help other than the clerk that sold it to me) she felt it was odd that RZ hugged her (does anyone think for a second that RZ did not pick up on this?) that she proceeded to interrogate RZ when they got in the car (I can't imagine that RZ wasn't traumatized by the events of the day either--not saying everyone else wasn't, just that she surely was too).

This interview can be found here: http://www.cbs8.com/story/15982091/exclusive-max-shacknais-aunt-talks-about-coronado-mansion-deaths

So I do wonder that a person who stated to her sister that "she was being strong for Jonah" who went above and beyond the call to care for and transport the entirety of the blended family involved only to be shut out and accused would willingly speak to those same people. Especially when she knew JS would not be around to be there with her, because he was with his son. On video at RMH.

Always, MOO

 

[bourne]

Another odd thing from the "Boy Interrupted" article is that DS asked NR to go talk to RZ. She herself took 12+ hours to rest, and in that time did not want to go and talk to RZ herself? That is bizarre and doesn't add up. She had 12+ hours (yes, while being very distraught and dealing with something that none of us could possibly comprehend, I am NOT bashing or being mean, I have nothing but heartache for what she went through) to go and find out whatever small detail was left out, something missed or not reported, but she did not. Instead she said she asked her sister to go. Her sister who had met RZ only once or twice and who already felt RZ was "bizarre" for giving her a hug when she picked her and her son up from airport. A sister that was most likely aware of DS' intense dislike and mistrust for RZ. I cannot fathom while DS didn't simply ask NR to go with her and help support her while she spoke with the woman who had lived with her ex-husband and cared for her son for two years. Wouldn't she have wanted to be there and hear it first hand. Wouldn't RZ have been far more likely to speak with DS than with her sister?

The link to the article can be found at: http://www.phoenixmag.com/lifestyle/valley-news/201208/boy--interrupted-full-version/2/

<snipped>
So I asked Nina to go talk to Rebecca. Beg her on your hands and knees, if you have to. Ask her if there’s anything, anything, that might help Max. Some detail or something she left out [of the police report].”

In NR' interview she stated she played with RZ's phone (I don't think anyone has touched my phone besides the DH to help other than the clerk that sold it to me) she felt it was odd that RZ hugged her (does anyone think for a second that RZ did not pick up on this?) that she proceeded to interrogate RZ when they got in the car (I can't imagine that RZ wasn't traumatized by the events of the day either--not saying everyone else wasn't, just that she surely was too).

This interview can be found here: http://www.cbs8.com/story/15982091/exclusive-max-shacknais-aunt-talks-about-coronado-mansion-deaths

So I do wonder that a person who stated to her sister that "she was being strong for Jonah" who went above and beyond the call to care for and transport the entirety of the blended family involved only to be shut out and accused would willingly speak to those same people. Especially when she knew JS would not be around to be there with her, because he was with his son. On video at RMH.

Always, MOO

I totally agree with you. I do not believe for one second that Dina herself did not show up at the Spreckels mansion that night to confront Rebecca about Max's fatal injury for herself.

 

[MyBelle]

I'm not so sure about that...in the "Boy Interrupted" article DS stated JS told her at the hospital that RZ had committed suicide, and she wondered why RZ would do that because MS was going to be fine. So she immediately thought that RZ would have killed herself over MS' being hurt. Because she supposedly thought MS would be ok, RZ had no reason to harm herself. Why would that be her first thought? Because she already thought RZ harmed MS.

The full article is available at http://www.phoenixmag.com/lifestyle/valley-news/201208/boy--interrupted-full-version/2/

<snipped>
Dina recalls. “I didn’t know what to say. I was like, ‘I’m so sorry.’ My next thought was ‘Why would she do that? Max is going to be fine.’ I still believed he would be OK.”



Always MOO

I don't believe it is very common for people to commit suicide over accidental injuries. I think a far more common reason for suicide is guilt and fear of arrest.

I do believe up until RZ committed suicide, Max's mother was still under the impression his injuries were caused by an accidental fall. Because the fall was preventable, it would not be at all unusual for a parent to still place blame and be very angry at the adult who had failed to protect the child. As it was, Max's doctor also had questions and felt the injuries did not fit with the description of the incident he had received. RZ could have stuck around and provided answers but she chose not to do so.

More than a year later, three highly educated, trained and experienced professionals have expressed the opinion that Max was assaulted. In light of these opinions, RZ's suicide is no surprise. She had method, motive and opportunity and took advantage of it.

JMO

 

[TorisMom003]

I don't believe it is very common for people to commit suicide over accidental injuries. I think a far more common reason for suicide is guilt and fear of arrest.

I do believe up until RZ committed suicide, Max's mother was still under the impression his injuries were caused by an accidental fall. Because the fall was preventable, it would not be at all unusual for a parent to still place blame and be very angry at the adult who had failed to protect the child. As it was, Max's doctor also had questions and felt the injuries did not fit with the description of the incident he had received. RZ could have stuck around and provided answers but she chose not to do so.

More than a year later, three highly educated, trained and experienced professionals have expressed the opinion that Max was assaulted. In light of these opinions, RZ's suicide is no surprise. She had method, motive and opportunity and took advantage of it.

JMO

If I'm not mistaken there were issues with Rebecca being at the hospital when Dina was there. I think that it is pretty clear that Dina did not like Rebecca and would refuse to have her there with Max. Rebecca was also used as a taxi service for those arriving or leaving by plane. She picked up Nina and her son from the airport, picked up Adam from the airport, picked up Jonah's dr buddy from the airport, took her sister to the airport, took Jonah's dr buddy to the airport, etc. I might be mistaken on one or two of those but it was clearly Rebecca's "job" to take care of things outside of the hospital. Rebecca was also responsible for calling a doggy day care place to come pick up Ocean. Seems to me that Rebecca was pretty darn busy doing for others.

One should also remember that there have been numerous professionals that have expressed the opinion that Rebecca's death was murder and not a suicide.

 

[*Lash*]

Nina alleges in her interview she was not suspicious of Rebecca until after she committed suicide. In my opinion in her interview several answers appear to contradict this statement. According to Nina, Rebecca was allegedly not 'forthcoming' when Nina questioned her during the ride from the airport to the hospital. Nina states this is the reason she wanted to talk to Rebecca that Tuesday night. Nina never mentions that her sister Dina had specifically asked her to go talk to Rebecca. In Dina's 'Boy Interrupted' interview, Dina even suggested Nina beg Rebecca. In my opinion, the conversation between the two sisters oddly appears to have been intentionally left out by Nina during her long phone interview.

CROSSTALK:
Right - Why did you go by there, what was the purpose of you, you know - knocking on the door and what did you do while you were there?

NINA:
Okay - so this was, this was the reason why. The reason why was that Rebecca picked me up from the airport - when I got in on Monday night - my son and I. And of course when I first (inaudible) she got out of the car. She opened up her trunk(it was an SUV)I thought she was getting out of the car to open up the trunk so I could put my luggage in there. She walked to the back of the car. She saw me. She said Nina - I am so glad that you're here. She was crying. She gave me this big bear hug. She put her - like her face in my neck area. And just embraced me. But it was to the extent that she didn't let go. Like it was a bear hug and she didn't let go. To the extent where somebody has you - that you start to get uncomfortable and you kinda start pulling away. Like something was weird about this. And I - you know - said I'm glad I'm here too you know. Thank you for picking me up. But I got this really weird vibe from it. Because I didn't know Rebecca that well. I mean I sorta met her two - or three - I believe - two times before. And that was it - um - my nephews birthday party. We were all at my nephew's birthday party together. My sister - Rebecca, Jonah - his parents - and other children. We had a bonfire on the beach. We were all there together. Everything was fine (and then I met - school functions) I met her as well - my nephew's school function...So we got in the car. The first thing I said was - Rebecca what happened? I said I got different pieces - I don't understand this. She was driving to the hospital - which I have - was under the impression she had already been to? And I said what happened - I don't understand I heard Maxie was walking up the stairs and he had a cardiac arrest? I said - I - that makes no sense to me. I said he is six years old - he's a healthy boy – he, he plays soccer - he plays sports - I don't understand. And then she looked at me and she said - I KNOW. And that was it. And I said - um okay - well, where did he fall from? Did he fall from the first of the stairs - the middle landing - the next set of stairs going up the top landing by the bedroom - where did he fall from? She said twice - he fell from the bedroom - he fell from the bedroom. And I looked at her and I said - well - how do you know that? I - I thought you didn't see him? No answer. (inaudible) Then she said - are you good with directions - and she handed me her cell phone. And it caught me off guard and I said - well I guess - if it tells me where to go - talking about the phone - she was getting lost going to the hospital. (inaudible) she would not speak about the accident again. Not one word.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/nina_romano.mp3

CROSSTALK:
Why do you think that she didn't give him CPR?

NINA:
I don't know, great question. I don't know that's my thinking I don't know maybe who knows maybe she was in the back yard maybe she was distracted I don't know maybe she found him and she didn't know how long he had been there, I don't know, I have no idea. No I do think she knew more than what she was telling- that's the feeling that I got that she wasn't being very forthcoming and I felt like she knew more and because of that she took those secrets with her. That's what I feel like.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/nina_romano.mp3

BOY INTERRUPTED:
Max’s physicians were still looking for clues to explain his cardiac arrest. “I felt like my life was collapsing like a card table,” Dina says. “The doctors said, ‘If you have any information, that would be helpful.’ So I asked Nina to go talk to Rebecca. Beg her on your hands and knees, if you have to. Ask her if there’s anything, anything, that might help Max. Some detail or something she left out [of the police report].”

http://www.phoenixmag.com/lifestyle/valley-news/201208/boy--interrupted-full-version/2/

 

[Inparadise]

Nina alleges in her interview she was not suspicious of Rebecca until after she committed suicide. In my opinion in her interview several answers appear to contradict this statement. According to Nina, Rebecca was allegedly not 'forthcoming' when Nina questioned her during the ride from the airport to the hospital. Nina states this is the reason she wanted to talk to Rebecca that Tuesday night. Nina never mentions that her sister Dina had specifically asked her to go talk to Rebecca. In Dina's 'Boy Interrupted' interview, Dina even suggested Nina beg Rebecca. In my opinion, the conversation between the two sisters oddly appears to have been intentionally left out by Nina during her long phone interview.

And, let's not forget how Nina deliberately made comments about her son to give the impression that he was young,and could not be left alone, when in reality, he was about 19 at the time, and had a valid CA driver's license.