WHY was JonBenet really killed - Motive?

[BBB167893]

That's what I think.

 

[sissi]

http://tryworks.blogspot.com/2006/01/ward-churchill-killed-jonbenet.html

this one?

 

[Eagle1]

There's so many events similar to this everywhere that I just keep her as my "Plan Z" We wouldn't have any sleuthing to do if we just decided it was her ! Where's the fun in that?

Meanwhile, does anyone remember a duffle bag in the crawl space?

The other night a serial rapist and killer on TV always carried a blue backpack, with his crime tools in it.

I don't remember what was in the duffle bag. Does anyone?

Also, was the tree house where the rope was found? And was there the initial "M" carved in it, not a recent carving? Maybe previous owners?

I know, someone will say maybe the duffle bag was the previous owners' too. I set myself up for that one, didn't I? To play the game, you gotta come up with a different answer than that one. Thanks in advance.

 

[shiloh]

I vaguely remember a duffel bag, but nothing at all about a treehouse.

The rope was in JAR's bedroom. It looks like the same rope which JBR was photographed with at one time. The picture is at ACandyRose's site.

 

[sissi]

I remember the duffle bag in the crawlspace, and the cord that Shapiro said he found on a branch. I vaguely remember his saying that whatever he found would certainly put the idea of it being kids to rest, making me think he found a condom. ..but he never said what else he found..

He did say that he was surprised that one could stand on a trash can and reach her balconey with ease.

Nothing else..don't remember the M...there is so much information ..but..carving sounds familiar...

oops...a google break..found this

shapiro statements..

JonBenet's room yes, third floor, well... I didn't go that high. I’ll tell you one thing. The second story level branch I used to hang out at (or on I should say) had something VERY interesting on it that made me realize a possible intruder could have been using that area as a point to look into JonBenet’s room. I’d tell you what I found but… it’s not quite time for that yet.

when questioned about hunter's interest in "someone"
I think it may be an intruder suspect that some people are recently looking into. There are new and fascinating names surfacing lately. Many of them are based on other kidnapping attempts and child murders in the Boulder and Denver areas.

again he says..
I think it's important to carefully consider the intruder theory.

THE BLACK TAPE>>>

Photographs taken by private investigators working for the Ramseys revealed that Aquinas was in the front row, holding a folder sealed tightly with a strip of smooth, black duct tape. Authorities seem to have lost track of Aquinas, and at least one private investigator working on the case says he'd love to find the man.

This was 2001 , has he changed his mind again? He's young I guess fence hoppin' comes easy

 

[Eagle1]

Thanks, Shiloh and Sissi, for the memories that may be a bit unusual. We shall see. Anyone else please weigh in if this jogs your memory in any way.

I for one don't remember ever hearing of this Aquinas, but now that you mention it I do remember Shapiro or someone talking about the tree limb.

Tried to skim PMPT again last night but it's just too small-print and almost more about the BPD politics than about the case itself, which I'm so curious about that I couldn't care less about LE peoples' names, beyond Hunter, Arndt, ST, and Smit. If you early in the case read several books, it's so hard to remember what was in each one after all this time.

I have a vague memory of a carved tree being mentioned but don't think it said specifically what was carved on it.
Editing to add a copy/paste quote from Sissi: ".don't remember the M...there is so much .information ..but..carving sounds familiar..."
Yup, same here.

It sure does sound like some kind of pedophile/voyeur may have been regularly spying on JonBenet from the tree. And someone else (?) molesting.

Re the duffle bag in the crawl space, wouldn't you think the children or someone would have found it long before this event if it'd been left by previous owners? There were also home upgrading workmen in the house that fall but the crawl space would be an unusual place for one of them to store anything. Doesn't it just sound like a criminal may have been hiding there, and forgot the duffle bag? I can't remember what was in it.

 

[narlacat]

I think I remember the carvings on the tree as maybe being kids names, maybe some of Burke and his neighbourhood friends, he had the swiss army knife..
Pretty normal thing for kids to do, carve their names on a tree..

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

I think I remember the carvings on the tree as maybe being kids names, maybe some of Burke and his neighbourhood friends, he had the swiss army knife..
Pretty normal thing for kids to do, carve their names on a tree..

Oh, narlacat! I couldn't help but add to this post. In early 60's we lived briefly in the UK. Our parents bought a real Christmas Tree in (just as the old hit-song goes) Late December Back in '63. We planted it in the spring. Us 4 kids (aged 2 - 9) carved our names on the base of the trunk the day we transplanted it.

In 1998 I drove back to see that old house having spent 35 years in Africa. The tree was still there, towering in the driveway! A beauty she was indeed. Gosh, even then in my early 40's I wanted to climb up and see those names again and ... well I have no idea why, but there was a lump in my throat that day... Silly, old, emotional, menopausal thing that I am, lol

Sorry, couldn't resist. Yes, that's a pretty normal thing for kids to do, lol!

 

[shiloh]

This is from ACandyRose.

http://www.acandyrose.com/jarsroom-rope.gif
http://www.acandyrose.com/jars-room-rope.gif

This is the rope that was found in JAR's bedroom, but apparently Shapiro found a different rope or cord in the tree.

The tree house -- was that in the same tree Shapiro used to climb to observe the police, like when they were doing their sound tests?

 

[shiloh]

I think the duffel bag is something that Jameson used to post about a very long time ago.

There is some information here about the duffel bag, posted by BlueCrab. http://websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/f-34/t-22520

BlueCrab
What's the crawl space??

narlacat,

The crawl space is an area under the house that has a dirt floor. It is entered by way of a small half door in the basement. When searched, the crawl space contained a duffel bag of some kind. I don't remember if the bag had anything in it.

*******

I don't believe the contents of the duffel bag have ever been made public.

 

[sissi]

I always thought, (could be wrong) that the crawl space was new. I think this because ,while the entire old section of my house has a full basement, there is only a "crawl space" under the newer section. The same with my sister's house, the crawl space is under her addition.

 

[BBB167893]

"This was 2001 , has he changed his mind again? He's young I guess fence hoppin' comes easy"

Not as easy as you might think! (Boy, are you talking to the right guy on that one!)

 

[Eagle1]

Yes, probably it was Burke's knife and kids' carving. I'd forgotten that.

Thanks for the link about the duffel bag, Shiloh. Going there now.

 

[Eagle1]

At Shiloh's above link, AussieSheila says FW probably lied, which was also my first impression, especially since Officer French also failed to find the body, almost as if both of them knew something was in that room. There would have been SOME light from the door being opened, even if the bsmt was fairly dark, and a white blanket would show up. Who wouldn't turn on all the available lights, absolutely all of them, looking for a missing child?

It's almost unbelievable that the police officer wasn't determined to open that door. The door being slightly hard to open should have alerted him more, imho.

We've been asking all along why would the R's cover for anyone. Maybe the question is, why would all three of these guys, and maybe all the friends?

 

[BBB167893]

I've never been much on conspiracy theories (except JFK!), so I need a little more than this.

 

[Eagle1]

It's almost unbelievable that the police officer wasn't determined to open that door. The door being slightly hard to open should have alerted him more, imho.

We've been asking all along why would the R's cover for anyone. Maybe the question is, why would all three of these guys, and maybe all the friends?

I wasn't thinking of a conspiracy theory and didn't say that.

Just asking, why didn't French open the latched door. Wouldn't he have been trained to open everything?

 

[UKGuy]

I wasn't thinking of a conspiracy theory and didn't say that.

Just asking, why didn't French open the latched door. Wouldn't he have been trained to open everything?

Eagle1,

My guess is because it was latched it appeared normal, and he would have been looking for the abnormal, as well as Jonbenet?

Although I accept FW may have not looked to hard, his statement that he looked and saw no blankets or corpse is equally almost unbelievable!

.

 

[Eagle1]

Yes, I have to agree.

But to me, I just think if I were a trained police officer searching the whole bsmt, I'd have opened the latch and looked in, unless I might be afraid of finding something that I wouldn't want to be the one to find. It would have looked like a good hiding place, in other words. Even a pretty obvious hiding place. The most likely hiding place.

 

[BBB167893]

Easy, Eagle1. I didn't mean anything by it. I simply meant that, by legal definition, when two or more people know about a crime, that constitutes conspiracy.

I'm sure that policeman is haunted by that knowledge, Eagle1.

 

[BlueCrab]

Eagle1,

My guess is because it was latched it appeared normal, and he would have been looking for the abnormal, as well as Jonbenet?

Although I accept FW may have not looked to hard, his statement that he looked and saw no blankets or corpse is equally almost unbelievable!

.

UKGuy,

Officer French was primarily looking for two things in the basement when he searched at about 6:05 AM: a place of entry/exit for a kidnapper; and the possibility that the kidnapper was still hiding in the basement. He found neither. French unlatched but didn't force open the stuck door to the wine room because it was latched on French's side of the door, making it impossible that the kidnapper was in the wine room -- so he left it and continued on with his search.

Fleet White, who searched the basement about 15 minutes after French searched it, was primarily looking for JonBenet and was calling out her name as he searched. When Fleet unlatched the door and forced the stuck wine room door open he leaned into the darkened room and looked around, but saw nothing unusual. He too didn't pursue the matter because, like French, the door had been latched on the outside, so JonBenet couldn't have been hiding in there.

However, when John and Fleet searched the basement at 1:05 PM they found the body in plain sight in the middle of the wine room floor, just one or two steps away from the door. Even though the room was dark when he had leaned in and peered into it at around 6:20 AM, Fleet reportedly insists that, since JonBenet was wrapped in a white blanket and almost directly under his nose, he would have seen the body HAD IT BEEN THERE! Apparently, in Fleet White's opinion, the body had been moved.

IMO this was the basis for the falling out between John Ramsey and Fleet White. It appears Fleet knows the body had been moved, and therefore he knows a Ramsey had to have been involved in the death of JonBenet. Fleet wanted John to come clean, but John chose the coverup route and began to throw innocent people under the bus, including an exasperated Fleet White and his family.

It looks like Fleet has since come up with other evidence that convinces him that a Ramsey is involved in the crime and the Ramseys are covering it up.

BlueCrab