Who Had Motive, Method & Opportunity?!

[bourne]

I clipped my post from "Rebecca's and Max's Timeline" topic because it seems to fit this topic more.

Thanks, Betty P! From your citations, it does look like Jonah hampered the investigation into Becky's murder with his use of PR and lawyers. If he had truly wanted to help find Becky's murderers, he would have simply opened the Spreckels mansion to Anne Bremner's team to investigate and do a re-creation of the murder scene.

Instead Jonah, knowing full well that LE was antagonistic towards AB's team, had his own lawyers stipulate near impossible-to-meet conditions involving the need for LE to be physically present at the time of AB's teams' access into the Spreckels. These conditions Jonah surely had known and expected LE would deny AB's team.

Plus the fact that Jonah seemed to accept without question his brother Adam's statement that Rebecca had "hung herself" -- if in fact, Jonah never replied to Adam's text message to ask for confirmation and details of her death. But instead Jonah immediately called Dina to repeat the news of Becky's self-hanging to Dina. We know Jonah never went directly to the Spreckels mansion to see with his own eyes his gf Becky's body.

Despite Ann Rule's belief to the contrary, Jonah's conspicuous absence of doubts and curiosity as to how Becky died makes me wonder whether he was involved in Becky's murder. Moreover, the fact that he did not make mention to LE of his ex-wife Dina's hatred and vindictiveness towards Becky, but instead suggested Becky's ex as a POI to LE, adds to my suspicions about what he knew of Becky's murder.

But did Jonah plan the murder of Becky? I don't think so. Did he give the "ok" to the murderer(s) to go ahead with their murder plan? Maybe. Certainly appears as if Jonah were aware because it appeared he unwaveringly accepted Becky's suicide.

Perhaps Jonah found out about Becky's murder after the fact? Perhaps the murderer(s) called him up to inform him of Becky's cold dead body, and Jonah decided to help cover up the murder by giving instructions to others to stage the suicide scene, and call the police at 6:30am? Honestly I don't think so. The suicide staging was too messy. For a businessman like Jonah who likely wanted to "divorce" himself from the murder mess -- had he been aware of it --just as he had divorced the mess with Dina, I doubt he would partake in the murder of Becky or create such an over-the-top, ridiculously flamboyant suicide staging. He'd try to avoid the negative publicity at all costs.

So maybe Jonah found out early Wed morning that his beloved Becky died. Perhaps he did return Adam's call to confirm that Becky was dead? (We need Jonah's phone records). Then when he heard about the big mess in his courtyard, he decided to protect his brother Adam and get Pfingst involved. Perhaps everything else including the logistical blockade of AB's team to gain access to his mansion were then instigated by Jonah's lawyers and PR. Jonah just didn't want to get involved in the mess, so he let his lawyers and PR handle everything that subsequently transpired. I think the Spreckels mansion renovations however were Jonah's idea because he wanted to quickly sell the mansion off. He was on "business-mode" with the Spreckels. It's hard for me to believe Jonah intends, as some say, to move back into the Spreckels and continue life there as if Max's and Becky's deaths which happened there don't matter to him.

I believe the murderers wanted a "big splatter" with Becky's dead cold hanging body for the world to gawk at on Jonah's property to humiliate not only Becky, but also Jonah. I believe the murderers wanted to get revenge not only on Becky but also to boast about the murder as an in-your-face to Jonah. That'd make the painted words on the door make sense, "SHE SAVED HIM CAN YOU SAVE HER". These words were directed at Jonah, in hateful, vengeful sarcasm.

 

[Quester]

[FONT=&quot]Was DNA/hair from any possible wigs tested/compared? TIA[/FONT]

 

[time]

[FONT=&quot]Was DNA/hair from any possible wigs tested/compared? TIA[/FONT]

I was wondering about that also, wigs.

 

[time]

I clipped my post from "Rebecca's and Max's Timeline" topic because it seems to fit this topic more.

Perhaps Jonah found out about Becky's murder after the fact? Perhaps the murderer(s) called him up to inform him of Becky's cold dead body, and Jonah decided to help cover up the murder by giving instructions to others to stage the suicide scene, and call the police at 6:30am? Honestly I don't think so. The suicide staging was too messy. For a businessman like Jonah who likely wanted to "divorce" himself from the murder mess -- had he been aware of it --just as he had divorced the mess with Dina, I doubt he would partake in the murder of Becky or create such an over-the-top, ridiculously flamboyant suicide staging. He'd try to avoid the negative publicity at all costs.

So maybe Jonah found out early Wed morning that his beloved Becky died. Perhaps he did return Adam's call to confirm that Becky was dead? (We need Jonah's phone records). Then when he heard about the big mess in his courtyard, he decided to protect his brother Adam and get Pfingst involved. Perhaps everything else including the logistical blockade of AB's team to gain access to his mansion were then instigated by Jonah's lawyers and PR. Jonah just didn't want to get involved in the mess, so he let his lawyers and PR handle everything that subsequently transpired. I think the Spreckels mansion renovations however were Jonah's idea because he wanted to quickly sell the mansion off. He was on "business-mode" with the Spreckels. It's hard for me to believe Jonah intends, as some say, to move back into the Spreckels and continue life there as if Max's and Becky's deaths which happened there don't matter to him.

I believe the murderers wanted a "big splatter" with Becky's dead cold hanging body for the world to gawk at on Jonah's property to humiliate not only Becky, but also Jonah. I believe the murderers wanted to get revenge not only on Becky but also to boast about the murder as an in-your-face to Jonah. That'd make the painted words on the door make sense, "SHE SAVED HIM CAN YOU SAVE HER". These words were directed at Jonah, in hateful, vengeful sarcasm.

bourne ... I have come to these same conclusions after nearly 1 1/2 years of considering all I have read.

 

[Gilgamesh]

K_Z... I agree with everything you said. Good post once again.

I have been wondering about the hair sample. I could be wrong, but I don't think that is typically what they would gather to test for DNA although hair could possibly yield DNA. It appears to me that they found hair that was not Rebecca's at the scene of the crime.

It is odd that Nina went out of her way in the interview to say the yoga pants were new. I wonder if she was caught on camera leaving the hospital and is this what she was wearing? It may not matter what she was wearing if the witnesses didn't see her anyway as far as who was at the front door - it would matter if she surrendered clothing to LE and it was not what she had on that night. I'm wondering if the TMI part of her interview, 'new' pants, could indicate she went out and bought the clothing.

Yoga pants are very similar within brand names. Lululemon yoga pants for example all have pretty much the same cut within their category. The straight legged ones are all the same except for a horizontal stripe at the top in various colors. The flared pants all have the same cut but different horizontal top stripe, etc. It would be a cinch to buy another duplicate pair immediately. If I were described as being seen in a pair of black yoga pants and asked to turn them over but didn't want the DNA to be examined, well, off Lululemon and $98 later, voila, here are my yoga pants you asked for. No prob.

 

[Gilgamesh]

You explained it better than I did! I'd still like to know what questions he was asked on the LD and which one or ones he showed deception on or were inconclusive.

I need to point something out here. Adam's 'lie detector test' really is not a correct usage of the term here. Adam had 4 LIE DETECTOR TESTS. Granted they were all in the same period of time however AR described them as four separate lie detector tests. I think semantics is important here. It kind of brings a sense of reality to this situation.

 

[time]

Yoga pants are very similar within brand names. Lululemon yoga pants for example all have pretty much the same cut within their category. The straight legged ones are all the same except for a horizontal stripe at the top in various colors. The flared pants all have the same cut but different horizontal top stripe, etc. It would be a cinch to buy another duplicate pair immediately. If I were described as being seen in a pair of black yoga pants and asked to turn them over but didn't want the DNA to be examined, well, off Lululemon and $98 later, voila, here are my yoga pants you asked for. No prob.

Yes, exactly, and thanks for the info on the similarities. LE would not know if they were exactly the same unless something really stuck out on camera or about a description.

 

[time]

I need to point something out here. Adam's 'lie detector test' really is not a correct usage of the term here. Adam had 4 LIE DETECTOR TESTS. Granted they were all in the same period of time however AR described them as four separate lie detector tests. I think semantics is important here. It kind of brings a sense of reality to this situation.

Interesting... I haven't read the book yet and missed it if someone mentioned this already. I had the book ordered, but cancelled since they were just shipping it and will go to B&N instead... thought I'd get go before this, but we're having storms. Is there more info about his LDT's in the book?

 

[Jessica2012]

I'm puzzled by Adam too. If only I know him in real life, then I can use my psychology training to analyze him. lol As is, I can't tell if he's just clumsy in his words and actions or that in his Ambien-induced state, he was subconsciously revealing info about his involvement in Becky's death.

If this was murder, it was methodically commited and all signs erased of it having been a murder. Why would someone go through such extremes to commit it and cover it up, but slip up like that and be clumsy about words? I would think the "murderer" would be very careful and deliberate about their words and subsequent actions. If it was a murder, I don't see any elements at all of a person who is clumsy being responsible. My opinion only.

 

[bourne]

If this was murder, it was methodically commited and all signs erased of it having been a murder. Why would someone go through such extremes to commit it and cover it up, but slip up like that and be clumsy about words? I would think the "murderer" would be very careful and deliberate about their words and subsequent actions. If it was a murder, I don't see any elements at all of a person who is clumsy being responsible. My opinion only.

That's why I don't believe Adam was complicit in Becky's murder. He was likely set up as the fall-guy by the murderers -- people who knew about his social awkwardness and tendency to misspeak.

I am wondering whether Adam takes Ambien regularly, prior to the murder. If Adam was truthful about the Ambien, it was very opportune for the murderers that he had taken it that night, and that he slept like a log throughout most of that Tues night into Wed morning.

 

[bourne]

Interesting... I haven't read the book yet and missed it if someone mentioned this already. I had the book ordered, but cancelled since they were just shipping it and will go to B&N instead... thought I'd get go before this, but we're having storms. Is there more info about his LDT's in the book?

Ann Rule only mentioned that there were four LDTs done on Adam on Wed. She didn't specify what questions were asked by the polygrapher, or why Adam had to take the same LDT test multiple times -- apart from alluding to his mentioning taking Ambien and only waking up to use the bathroom once during his sleep.

 

[Zinn]

If this was murder, it was methodically commited and all signs erased of it having been a murder. Why would someone go through such extremes to commit it and cover it up, but slip up like that and be clumsy about words? I would think the "murderer" would be very careful and deliberate about their words and subsequent actions. If it was a murder, I don't see any elements at all of a person who is clumsy being responsible. My opinion only.

BBM

While I don't have an opinion regarding AS's involvement, I can't think of a single way in which this scene does not look like murder. Additionally, the lack of a thorough investigation (some items ignored, others gathered but not tested) does not lead me to conclude all signs of murder were erased.

Just my opinion.

 

[time]

If this was murder, it was methodically commited and all signs erased of it having been a murder. Why would someone go through such extremes to commit it and cover it up, but slip up like that and be clumsy about words? I would think the "murderer" would be very careful and deliberate about their words and subsequent actions. If it was a murder, I don't see any elements at all of a person who is clumsy being responsible. My opinion only.

I agree on the methodical. I also think someone was careful not to leave forensic evidence and/or that evidence was not collected or analyzed. But, it looks like a murder not a suicide.

Still wondering about that black latex glove and I've heard no mention they tested inside it for DNA, but the glove should be in evidence. It seems to stick out like a sore thumb to me. No reason for Rebecca to use a glove, no reason it should logically be there, no reason only one glove .... definitely no reason not to test it.

 

[Jessica2012]

I agree on the methodical. I also think someone was careful not to leave forensic evidence and/or that evidence was not collected or analyzed. But, it looks like a murder not a suicide.

Still wondering about that black latex glove and I've heard no mention they tested inside it for DNA, but the glove should be in evidence. It seems to stick out like a sore thumb to me. No reason for Rebecca to use a glove, no reason it should logically be there, no reason only one glove .... definitely no reason not to test it.

"I agree on the methodical. I also think someone was careful not to leave forensic evidence and/or that evidence was not collected or analyzed"




That is my point, the person would have to be methodical and deliberate. AS's actions to me were exactly the opposite.

 

[time]

"I agree on the methodical. I also think someone was careful not to leave forensic evidence and/or that evidence was not collected or analyzed"

That is my point, the person would have to be methodical and deliberate. AS's actions to me were exactly the opposite.

I think Adam is strange and his behavior is hinky, but I agree, I just can't see him being involved in Rebecca's murder.

 

[Quester]

A perp/s who might have been trying to stage a murder to look like a murder might be careful not to leave any forensic evidence of him/herself/ves but might they methodically and deliberately leave a few little sloppy details such as extra knife/ves, knocks on the head, welts on the back, tape residue on the shins, etc? TIA

 

[Quester]

Just noticed:

What is "mirder" and "pooprtunity" in the "Tags" box below? TIA

 

[time]

A perp/s who might have been trying to stage a murder to look like a murder might be careful not to leave any forensic evidence of him/herself/ves but might they methodically and deliberately leave a few little sloppy details such as extra knife/ves, knocks on the head, welts on the back, tape residue on the shins, etc? TIA

I do wonder what could have been staged to confuse the crime scene. Certainly in this case, it could be putting Rebecca's fingerprints somewhere, possibly moving her body, paint on her... but you make and excellent point of what shouldn't be there!

... and, as you say, some of it could just be sloppy, they left an extra knife, tape residue, a glove, not realizing how certain things will look (like I think the rope lengths turning out just perfect for a hanging and tying hands and feet is just wrong), and so on. And, they forgot to wipe the right size spot of dust off the bannister! Oops.

Is it that they just couldn't help but leave the message on the door, in third person? I think so. I'm also thinking that she was meant for Adam to find.

 

[Gilgamesh]

lease::great:

Just noticed:

What is "mirder" and "pooprtunity" in the "Tags" box below? TIA

Thanks for the laugh and levity. It's that ole' black humour that AR mentioned. It often shows up when people are immersed in mirder cases too deeply.

 

[time]

Just noticed:

What is "mirder" and "pooprtunity" in the "Tags" box below? TIA

Have you been reading my mind - I just saw those this morning! Where's the poop!