WHO is searching for Kyron?

[kappy50]

I believe why there are no further searches for Kyron is LE is convinced that Kyorn is not in the area any longer.

They have checked all the places in the area they know to search and have found nothing.

IMO

convinced, to me complecent...still the same...very sad to me....very,very sad to me...mho...

 

[kappy50]

I know I am...this case seems to go in cycles, in a way, sometimes it seems as though news is just about to break, other times it seems as though nothing will ever happen. I don't know how families ever survive having a loved one missing. When my sister died and then one of my brothers the next year, I thought that the pain my mom was enduring could not be exceeded...yet now I think that having a child simply vanish must be as bad or worse than certain death. You don't get to go through the normal grieving process, yet you grieve, yet you must keep up your hopes...

oh clu...omg....hopes are all we have for sure...bless you and your family ....

 

[eileenhawkeye]

It's worrying to me that they're aren't any current searches for Kyron. It's only been three months. Weren't they still searching for Elizabeth Smart and Madeleine McCann a lot longer? If LE believed that Kyron was being held by some deviant, wouldn't they still be searching?

 

[AbbieNormal]

I seem to get the impression that many like me are becoming despondent. We don't seem to hear anything positive about searches , plans ,evidence or lack of it. I pray that Kyron is not suffering this long. Can a human being just disappear off the earth?

I am worried as time goes on people will just pick up on another child murder case and Kyron will fall by the wayside, like Haleigh did for so many posters on several boards. When there are no clues, nobody's talking, no evidence (if there was they would have arrested Terri) and apparently no active searches going on, its sad to think well someday maybe someone will stumble on his body or he will emerge as a 14 yr old whose been held by some demented person(s) like Jaycee Dugard for years.
If hes no longer alive, forensic evidence is all but gone unless Terri did some creative sticker/ duct tape/ blankets left at the scene like that witch Casey Anthony. Didn't someone say there are roads (back roads) where Terri could have possibly been driving where there are drop-offs kind of like cliffs covered with greenery that are pretty high or did I dream that? Places like that would be almost impossible to search, I would think. Much different from tramping through the woods.
I wonder if they have any psychics weighing in on this like we did out here on the east coast with Caylee? One group of them were RIGHT THERE where Caylees body was, but the water was still present. It was eerie. They videotaped it.

abbie

 

[Billylee]

http://www.kptv.com/news/24374478/detail.html
From July 23


26. Is there an active search every day? Or just responding to tips?

Sheriff's Office: Searches occur when necessary. We are responding to tips on a daily basis. If that tip warrants a physical search of an area, that is handled accordingly.


This makes me assume that not many tips are turning up anything new.

 

[debs]

http://www.kptv.com/news/24374478/detail.html
From July 23


26. Is there an active search every day? Or just responding to tips?

Sheriff's Office: Searches occur when necessary. We are responding to tips on a daily basis. If that tip warrants a physical search of an area, that is handled accordingly.


This makes me assume that not many tips are turning up anything new.

The sheriff responded to this particular aspect, stating that it was his greatest frustration to have to go through all the tips, logging them, knowing they weren't going to go anywhere (because the tipster didn't give specifics, etc) and knowing it took man hours away from true searches that were deemed viable. It's in his Sept 15 interview.

 

[Billylee]

The sheriff responded to this particular aspect, stating that it was his greatest frustration to have to go through all the tips, logging them, knowing they weren't going to go anywhere (because the tipster didn't give specifics, etc) and knowing it took man hours away from true searches that were deemed viable. It's in his Sept 15 interview.

Yes, and since we're not hearing of any new physical searches, it makes me sad, because even according to his latest presser, nothing new has created "a search".

 

[gardeness]

I don't see any difference in the possibility of a volunteer searcher interfering with evidence over a landowner interfering with evidence--if anything, it seems a volunteer searcher would be less likely to interfere with evidence found during the search, because they would be actively looking for it...

 

[Oriah]

I don't see any difference in the possibility of a volunteer searcher interfering with evidence over a landowner interfering with evidence--if anything, it seems a volunteer searcher would be less likely to interfere with evidence found during the search, because they would be actively looking for it...

To me, the thought behind this is that LE is actively engaging SAR professonals in searches. Groups might be small, and we might not know who they are, but I think it's likely still happening.

It's not so much that LE would be saying "regular people/friends/family cannot search" just that "there may very well be searches ongoing that we are not discussing, and "we would very much like for those particular searches to be protected."

That's what I get out of all of this.

I will say, IMO- searches and SAR efforts that are closely coordinated and have very specific areas- most of the time LE (and from my perspective, SAR) do NOT want family involved.
That is not intended to exclude them in any way, shape or form, nor are they intending to be disrespectful or misunderstanding of the desire for family to be involved in a search.

It is to protect them from possibly horrible and/or incorrect information released by the media or an untrained SAR professional- or worse yet, to be there in the moment that occurs.
JMO.

Perhaps sarx could weigh in here?

 

[BeanE]

Wasn't sure where to post this, but thought some locals might be interested. MCSO is looking for search volunteers, and will be offering training. Please spread the word.

Multnomah County Sheriff's Office Search and Rescue Seeking New Members - 09/24/10
Multnomah County Sheriff's Office Search and Rescue (MCSO SAR) unit is entering a new training cycle, after a summer of unprecedented activity. The organization's all-volunteer leadership is looking to educate the community and attract more volunteers. An orientation meeting for interested volunteers will be held at 7 p.m. on Wednesday, September 29 at the MCSO Hansen Building, located at 12240 N.E. Glisan St. in Portland.

PDF flier: http://www.flashalertnewswire.net/images/news/2010-09/1276/38648/MCSO_SAR_PressRelease.pdf

MCSO press release website: http://www.flashalert.net/news.html?id=1276

 

[just]

Wasn't sure where to post this, but thought some locals might be interested. MCSO is looking for search volunteers, and will be offering training. Please spread the word.

Multnomah County Sheriff's Office Search and Rescue Seeking New Members - 09/24/10
Multnomah County Sheriff's Office Search and Rescue (MCSO SAR) unit is entering a new training cycle, after a summer of unprecedented activity. The organization's all-volunteer leadership is looking to educate the community and attract more volunteers. An orientation meeting for interested volunteers will be held at 7 p.m. on Wednesday, September 29 at the MCSO Hansen Building, located at 12240 N.E. Glisan St. in Portland.

PDF flier: http://www.flashalertnewswire.net/images/news/2010-09/1276/38648/MCSO_SAR_PressRelease.pdf

MCSO press release website: http://www.flashalert.net/news.html?id=1276

Thanks BeanE, I might be able to make the meeting. To the question of who is searching, I have never understood why the family didn't get out bullhorns that very first day and get all their friends and neighbors canvasing not just the forest but the neighborhood. Remember, the first few days this was a 'lost' child so it made no sense to me that regular people couldn't search in neighborhoods or on level terrain.

I also remember KH stating that right away the LE told him to brace for a long haul, and I remember thinking - how would he know? We have kids go missing it seems every other month in the woods/campsites/mountains around here and they get everyone out there - even asking for volunteers - to help.

Take this happy ending a few hours away last month:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/found-happy-ending-family-isaak-glenn-missing-year/story?id=11340191

"Isaak's parents credited all the media attention with getting people out and bringing their son home." (A father and son team - non professional searchers - found the boy).

That's why this case is a complete head scratcher for me. It's like there was no urgency and everyone but the LE gave up day 1. (I'm not implying DY and KH and TY don't desperately want Kyron home, I am implying there seemed to be this 'doomed' tone from day 1.)

 

[GrainneDhu]

Wow. That's awful. Only one day. I'm surprised anyone can get anything done at all! In this case, if we cover 8 miles or so with a grid search, how long would that take? Days and days I imagine.

Doing the math, a grid search of a circle with an 8 mile radius (8 miles in any direction from Skyline School) would encompass just over 200 square miles.

Now, a lot of that area could certainly be ruled out without even looking at it. I'm thinking of places like large department stores or malls, where there's a lot of routine regular maintenance. And probably any urban type shopping areas (streets, stores and allies) could be ruled out.

There might well be problems in getting people to give permission for searches of their private property (there have been such problems in the past). Some of those places would just have to be crossed off unseen due to lack of permission or probable cause.

But... that's still gonna leave a lotta square mileage to put shoe leather on, if doing it without a lead.

Circles, for me, are deceptive to work with. I'm knitting a circular shawl from the outside edge inwards and wow, those first rows were incredibly long for a shawl that is not going to be all that huge!

 

[GrainneDhu]

No one willing to do this pro bono for KYRON???
Seems to me Haleigh and Caylee had PI's pro bono.
I would think that PI's would want their names in a High Profile case!
PI's are needed also I do think.
Atleast keeping an eye on the main players TH/DD etc.

I think it is a very rare case where a pro bono PI made much difference to the outcome. It's much more common for those cases that attract pro bono PIs to end up being a PR grab for the PI.

Mostly where PIs seem to do some real good is with cold cases and cases that LE has dropped because someone has been convicted (the Innocence Project, for example).

While a good PI is fairly pricey, well, they have to make a living as well and their overhead also tends to be high. I would never fault a PI for not offering their services pro bono, any more than I would fault a plumber, electrician, etc.

I would be the first to admit that I do not completely trust LE; I think the vast majority of officers are fine, upstanding people but in every profession, there are a minority who are a disgrace. In this case, though, I have a feeling that all the people closely involved are being adequately monitored by LE.

And there are so many new ways to monitor someone! For instance, a GPS tracker can be slapped onto the undercarriage of a car in less than 30 seconds (magnetic, of course). It would be easier if there were more bumpers that were really made of metal these days. Whoever places such a tracker doesn't even have to regain physical possession of the device to get the data it collected.

Tracking someone's phone calls via records is much easier now than it was 30 years ago. Bugging technologies are more and more difficult to detect and better at picking up sound/video. Tracking someone's internet usage is equally easy.

It sounds paranoid but it's true: just because you don't see them, doesn't mean they aren't watching you.

 

[scandi]

Hi, I'm wondering if anyone here has read anything about Forest Park being searched? The northern part of it lies between Springville Rd on the South and Newberry Rd on the North and lies East of Skyline Rd. I'd love to know especially if any locals have seen any activity up there in the last few days.

The North part of Forest Park is called Linnton Park and actually Newberry Rd goes thru this forest land in 2 places. I'm thinking that would be a place perp's would use for a burial site. Close in to civilization and not that far away. Yes, possibly trekking thru the woods if there are no logging or dirt roads cut in. But that would seem like a safe bet to me if I were a perp, as who in their right mind would think of someone burying a body in a virgin forest {thick underbrush and lots of up and down areas?.

 

[BeanE]

To the question of who is searching, I have never understood why the family didn't get out bullhorns that very first day and get all their friends and neighbors canvasing not just the forest but the neighborhood. Remember, the first few days this was a 'lost' child so it made no sense to me that regular people couldn't search in neighborhoods or on level terrain.

LE (Shults) explained that on behalf of the family. He said (paraphrasing) that Kaine and Terri immediately called friends and neighbors, and searched the neighbors houses. Then they realized they needed more extensive search resources from LE.

You can read the full transcription I did here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5572558&postcount=7"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Case Review #1: Thread #8: LE Press Conferences & Releases: June 12 2010[/ame]


Also, I believe all four parents/steps were being interviewed a lot by LE. Reference Terri's email of June 5 saying she'd been interviewed 5 times, and Kaine in the 25 minute audio with the Oregonian in which he said he was interviewed heavily by LE through the following Tuesday.

 

[Kat010]

To me, the thought behind this is that LE is actively engaging SAR professonals in searches. Groups might be small, and we might not know who they are, but I think it's likely still happening.

It's not so much that LE would be saying "regular people/friends/family cannot search" just that "there may very well be searches ongoing that we are not discussing, and "we would very much like for those particular searches to be protected."

That's what I get out of all of this.

I will say, IMO- searches and SAR efforts that are closely coordinated and have very specific areas- most of the time LE (and from my perspective, SAR) do NOT want family involved.
That is not intended to exclude them in any way, shape or form, nor are they intending to be disrespectful or misunderstanding of the desire for family to be involved in a search.

It is to protect them from possibly horrible and/or incorrect information released by the media or an untrained SAR professional- or worse yet, to be there in the moment that occurs.
JMO.

Perhaps sarx could weigh in here?

Absolutely. Good post.

However, after awhile, when the official searches are basically done, I (personal opinion here) don't see anything wrong with family/friends doing searches if they choose to. One thing that impressed me was how Stacy Peterson's family and friends spent so many weekends searching and searching. They coordinated with agencies--at one point I believe Tim Miller came in (?)--but they kept at it. I remember sending a donation up for pizzas on one search day.

We all say "if we were me I'd do xxxx" and in reality, we don't quite know. However, my best guess is that if it were my child, I'd be out searching and tromping the woods unless and until LE showed me hard evidence that he/she wasn't in the area. Then again--I'm a country girl, I'm comfortable in the woods, know how to use a compass, travel with dogs, and oh yes, one of them is a huge German Shepherd with a great nose. (Country girl speaks: I smile when I see city folk saying that the woods/foliage creep them out; I feel safe in the woods while big city streets with all the people--some of them very strange--creep me out!)

However, given the chance that some really bad people are involved (meaning more than one) and they have a hideout or gathering place, I certainly wouldn't recommend that anyone go out on their own. But small groups marking maps up for where they'd been, in coordinated small-scale searches, as leaves fall from trees, and the landscape changes, I think could be a good idea.

 

[just]

Absolutely. Good post.

However, after awhile, when the official searches are basically done, I (personal opinion here) don't see anything wrong with family/friends doing searches if they choose to. One thing that impressed me was how Stacy Peterson's family and friends spent so many weekends searching and searching. They coordinated with agencies--at one point I believe Tim Miller came in (?)--but they kept at it. I remember sending a donation up for pizzas on one search day.

We all say "if we were me I'd do xxxx" and in reality, we don't quite know. However, my best guess is that if it were my child, I'd be out searching and tromping the woods unless and until LE showed me hard evidence that he/she wasn't in the area. Then again--I'm a country girl, I'm comfortable in the woods, know how to use a compass, travel with dogs, and oh yes, one of them is a huge German Shepherd with a great nose. (Country girl speaks: I smile when I see city folk saying that the woods/foliage creep them out; I feel safe in the woods while big city streets with all the people--some of them very strange--creep me out!)

However, given the chance that some really bad people are involved (meaning more than one) and they have a hideout or gathering place, I certainly wouldn't recommend that anyone go out on their own. But small groups marking maps up for where they'd been, in coordinated small-scale searches, as leaves fall from trees, and the landscape changes, I think could be a good idea.

I'm with you on this. We don't know what we'd do but I truly can't imagine not asking the neighbors/friends to go yelling through the streets house to house and grabbing a mic early on to ask America to help. I mean being LOUD and out there versus a few calls to neighbors, hey have you see Kyron?

As I mentioned before, I didn't find out until Monday after he went missing when I saw a flyer in Safeway (and I live in the heart of all TH's weird driving - right near the gym, the Freddies ,etc), and my friends and I even said, why didn't we see this on the news? Why weren't we asked to help? Something was screwy - again, this is in NO way a reflection of the parents or LE, just our perception there wasn't an urgency (doesn't mean there wasn't an urgency, just means I sure didn't feel it).

 

[Billylee]

I cant' figure out why the never searched north of Logie road, where the guy said he thought he saw TH's truck? I think it's Morgan rd that is just north of Logie, right along rainbow lake. If LE really does not believe TH's story, especially if they also believe she may have had an accomplice, then why didn't they search that area. I don't get it. And if they were truly searching Sauvie Island because of cell phone pings, I looked up the closest towers and the tallest tower near Morgan Rd. is on Sauvie Island. Here's his account in case anyone missed it.


Also Sunday, a man who asked not to be shown on camera, expressed his frustration about the Kyron Horman tipline.


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:r5ZoswTGnncJ:www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopular/story/Complete-coverage-of-the-Kyron-Horman/Dz4uMChK60KCWjy3W5FG4Q.cspx%3Fp%3D9+%22also+sunday,+a+man+who+asked%22+not+to+be+shown+kyron+horman&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

“Chas” said he has called the tip line twice, but hadn’t heard back. He was concerned other people’s tips, like his, were not checked on.

Chas said he saw Terri Horman the day Kyron mysteriously vanished.

“I was on my way to work, driving down Highway 30,” said “Chas.”

It was Friday, June 4th, sometime between 9:15 and 9:45 in the morning. “Chas” was heading south on Highway 30, on his way to work when a white truck pulled out onto the road.

"It came out of one of these side streets, I am not exactly positive which one, but I am pretty much sure that it was north of Logie Trail road.”

Logie Trail Road is right across from Sauvie Island. One of the areas investigators have searched several times.

"I recognize that truck because I have a friend that has a similar truck and I thought it was him.”

But when “Chas” pulled up next to this truck, he saw that it wasn't his friend, it was a red-haired woman, he didn't recognize.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Absolutely. Good post.

However, after awhile, when the official searches are basically done, I (personal opinion here) don't see anything wrong with family/friends doing searches if they choose to. One thing that impressed me was how Stacy Peterson's family and friends spent so many weekends searching and searching. They coordinated with agencies--at one point I believe Tim Miller came in (?)--but they kept at it. I remember sending a donation up for pizzas on one search day.

We all say "if we were me I'd do xxxx" and in reality, we don't quite know. However, my best guess is that if it were my child, I'd be out searching and tromping the woods unless and until LE showed me hard evidence that he/she wasn't in the area. Then again--I'm a country girl, I'm comfortable in the woods, know how to use a compass, travel with dogs, and oh yes, one of them is a huge German Shepherd with a great nose. (Country girl speaks: I smile when I see city folk saying that the woods/foliage creep them out; I feel safe in the woods while big city streets with all the people--some of them very strange--creep me out!)

However, given the chance that some really bad people are involved (meaning more than one) and they have a hideout or gathering place, I certainly wouldn't recommend that anyone go out on their own. But small groups marking maps up for where they'd been, in coordinated small-scale searches, as leaves fall from trees, and the landscape changes, I think could be a good idea.

It's my understanding that there's lots of privately owned land involved and people don't want a bunch of strangers traipsing across their property. People would have to get express permission from every landowner.

Also, in terms of the fall weather, I'm not sure when hunting season starts in Oregon, but people running around without orange jackets on could get themselves shot by accident.

 

[Scamperoo]

I cant' figure out why the never searched north of Logie road, where the guy said he thought he saw TH's truck? I think it's Morgan rd that is just north of Logie, right along rainbow lake. If LE really does not believe TH's story, especially if they also believe she may have had an accomplice, then why didn't they search that area. I don't get it. And if they were truly searching Sauvie Island because of cell phone pings, I looked up the closest towers and the tallest tower near Morgan Rd. is on Sauvie Island. Here's his account in case anyone missed it.


Also Sunday, a man who asked not to be shown on camera, expressed his frustration about the Kyron Horman tipline.


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:r5ZoswTGnncJ:www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopular/story/Complete-coverage-of-the-Kyron-Horman/Dz4uMChK60KCWjy3W5FG4Q.cspx%3Fp%3D9+%22also+sunday,+a+man+who+asked%22+not+to+be+shown+kyron+horman&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

“Chas” said he has called the tip line twice, but hadn’t heard back. He was concerned other people’s tips, like his, were not checked on.

Chas said he saw Terri Horman the day Kyron mysteriously vanished.

“I was on my way to work, driving down Highway 30,” said “Chas.”

It was Friday, June 4th, sometime between 9:15 and 9:45 in the morning. “Chas” was heading south on Highway 30, on his way to work when a white truck pulled out onto the road.

"It came out of one of these side streets, I am not exactly positive which one, but I am pretty much sure that it was north of Logie Trail road.”

Logie Trail Road is right across from Sauvie Island. One of the areas investigators have searched several times.

"I recognize that truck because I have a friend that has a similar truck and I thought it was him.”

But when “Chas” pulled up next to this truck, he saw that it wasn't his friend, it was a red-haired woman, he didn't recognize.

."

The reason they probably did not follow up on this is that Terri's movements from 8:45 am until 9:45 are pretty much written in stone now. If LE says it is so then I believe it, apart from the 7 mile drive, 1st Fred Myer receipt dated and timed 9:12am , the second Fred Myer where she was confirmed by a gym employee at 9:30 with the baby and LE also has the video from both stores. I think it pretty much rules this scenario out.