Who is the Third Party that Arranged Gabe's Handoff?

[BeanE]

Have there been ANY witnesses that actually saw this "couple" leave with Baby Gabriel?

And if EJ didn't want anybody to find him, Why keep a journal? knowing that LE would eventually get to it?

it's still a little fishy to me

My understanding is that the reason Ken went public was to try to find witnesses to the incident in the park.

Elizabeth is a disturbed young lady. She's done a number of things for a number of years that don't make sense to most people. I'm not sure it matters why she kept the journal, so much as it matters that the journal is a source of information for finding Gabe. To me, it's - Let's find Gabe first and figure out the whys later.

I'm not clear on what it is that you find. Can you clarify?

 

[kissdegirl]

With EJ's history, it seems very possible to me that journaling was her way of dealing with her issues. It's not that strange, lots of people journal. I even think someone in her past, perhaps a counselor or something, encouraged her to journal. And, if she was emotionally a wreck in December, it makes sense to me that she would attempt to deal with it the only way she ever learned how....especially if she had gone off her meds like her GF said.

Ken did say in his interview that it was very important that the public was told the name of the park, and when she was there. We've all been looking all over the city, but I never saw anyone mention that park. Now, people, LE, volunteers can cover the area with flyer's and asking questions and raising awareness. I am greatful for any facts that may help lead to finding Gabriel. I am also hopeful that new tips may come in as a result of that information Ken gave, and hopefully someone did see a couple leave the park with Gabriel.

ETA: EJ was possibly wanting to leave the country...she fled SA to FL, so I don't think she knew LE was going to get to it. She thought she was smarter than everyone and wouldn't get caught, especially for something she didn't think was wrong...IMO. I'm not trying to jump on you, so I hope you don't feel that way. I hope intstead that this is helpful for you.

 

[iluvmua]

My understanding is that the reason Ken went public was to try to find witnesses to the incident in the park.

Elizabeth is a disturbed young lady. She's done a number of things for a number of years that don't make sense to most people. I'm not sure it matters why she kept the journal, so much as it matters that the journal is a source of information for finding Gabe. To me, it's - Let's find Gabe first and figure out the whys later.

I'm not clear on what it is that you find. Can you clarify?

I find it fishy the the PI has access to the journal, would that not be considered evidence for LE to go through before anyone else was allowed access?

 

[BeanE]

I find it fishy the the PI has access to the journal, would that not be considered evidence for LE to go through before anyone else was allowed access?

Several scenarios have been suggested under which the PI could have come into possession of the journal prior to LE, but personally, I haven't assumed that LE did not have it first. To me, it is more likely that they did.

Regardless of who had it first, it contains valuable information for finding Gabe, and that is what's most important to me.

 

[kappy50]

Several scenarios have been suggested under which the PI could have come into possession of the journal prior to LE, but personally, I haven't assumed that LE did not have it first. To me, it is more likely that they did.

Regardless of who had it first, it contains valuable information for finding Gabe, and that is what's most important to me.

B..I don't know who had it first...If it were LE, then that really,really troubles me.....it contained valuable info so we are told...finding Gabe is exactly what we want...but if LE had it first, they dropped the ball, or better yet, never picked up the ball...maybe the info we have to this day from PI...could've come out a long time ago, which would've made it closer to us finding Gabriel....He could have been home by Easter ...all this to me is what we don't know...and probably never will!

 

[BeanE]

B..I don't know who had it first...If it were LE, then that really,really troubles me.....it contained valuable info so we are told...finding Gabe is exactly what we want...but if LE had it first, they dropped the ball, or better yet, never picked up the ball...maybe the info we have to this day from PI...could've come out a long time ago, which would've made it closer to us finding Gabriel....He could have been home by Easter ...all this to me is what we don't know...and probably never will!

I hope they have a good reason for not having released the info sooner. Nevertheless, we have the info now, and the best leads we've had in this case, and we can look for the couple and hopefully find Gabe and bring him home.

Just pick who you think the third party is, then connect them to somebody in the San Antonio area who matches the description of either the male or the female in the couple, and send in the tip.

That's all that anyone who wants to help Gabe needs to do.

Or do it the opposite way - you can find churches and other organizations in the San Antonio area that the couple could have come from, and then connect the church or organization back to somebody who could have been the third party, and then send that in as a tip.

It's tedious and time-consuming work, but Gabe's worth it. He needs to come home.

 

[kappy50]

Didn't Mr. Gamble say he thought the couple drove to San Antonio ???

 

[TXHOPE]

Gamble said the mystery couple probably knew the adoption was illegal.

"It's very unlikely that the couple don't know what's going on," he said. "They just have very strong beliefs about the child."

It's unlikely that Gabriel is still in San Antonio, Gamble said. The couple probably drove to Texas to pick up the baby.


He said probably, so I guess there's still a possibility they're from SA but from his statement above it sounds like he thinks they are from out of state.

 

[kissdegirl]

I hope they have a good reason for not having released the info sooner. Nevertheless, we have the info now, and the best leads we've had in this case, and we can look for the couple and hopefully find Gabe and bring him home.

Just pick who you think the third party is, then connect them to somebody in the San Antonio area who matches the description of either the male or the female in the couple, and send in the tip.

That's all that anyone who wants to help Gabe needs to do.

Or do it the opposite way - you can find churches and other organizations in the San Antonio area that the couple could have come from, and then connect the church or organization back to somebody who could have been the third party, and then send that in as a tip.

It's tedious and time-consuming work, but Gabe's worth it. He needs to come home.

C'mon sleuthers! We can do this! Whatever little bits don't make sense to you, just put them aside for now. We need all hands on deck, and we all should be looking at connections. We have to work hard, with power in numbers to find Gabriel, and bring him home by his birthday. Let's not allow his family, all his loving family miss out on that.

"It's very unlikely that the couple don't know what's going on," he said. "They just have very strong beliefs about the child."

It's unlikely that Gabriel is still in San Antonio, Gamble said. The couple probably drove to Texas to pick up the baby.

 

[kappy50]

Be nice to know if TS had out of town relatives visiting for the Christmas holidays, that went back home by way of San Antonio.....

 

[YellowSubmarine]

C'mon sleuthers! We can do this! Whatever little bits don't make sense to you, just put them aside for now. We need all hands on deck, and we all should be looking at connections. We have to work hard, with power in numbers to find Gabriel, and bring him home by his birthday. Let's not allow his family, all his loving family miss out on that.

:thumb: Well said!

I have no reason to doubt a reputable PI like Mr.Gamble so whatever reasons this is coming about, let's dig in and help!

 

[BeanE]

Thought I'd put a link here to the library of sleuthing resources built by our WS members:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=180"]Sleuthers Come Here - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[kappy50]

Thought I'd put a link here to the library of sleuthing resources built by our WS members:

Sleuthers Come Here - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Thanks so much...you're the queen of the nite...I am the cow of the morning...I have to get up at 3 am and I am sleuthing as soon as my feet hit the floor....much appreciated!

 

[kappy50]

#1) TPS stands out like a neon light. She is my #1 pick with the help of JM or someone else she may have called but did not mention. She might of had JM and some attorney call EJ, but who else did the busybody call or contact that we do not know about?

She seems to tell half truths and omits information.

She went to school in TX (right down the street of EJ's hotel) and must have contacts or friends there. JS is in the music business and probably has contacts there as well.

JM may have been in TX in 01/10 according to the pageant posts.

EJ was contacting TPS in FL after the hand off. Why would she do that if she was starting a new life?

IMO, even if TPS now knows she will never get Gabriel she doesn't care as long as Logan doesn't get him and she doesn't get implicated.

To me, her FB is a dog and pony show maybe hiding someone in the midst of all her new 1000s of friends she just aquired. You could be Charles Manson and poof you are on TPS's FB as a friend.

#2) A family member, good friend or church aquaintance of HG. I think HG could be a friend to EJ. He could be a relative or boyfriend of a friend of EJs. Maybe even an ex-coworker of EJs. Maybe she shared a foster home with HG at one point in her life.

He could also be affliated with TPS, maybe a friend, (ex)employee, a relative of a friend or of an employee.

JMO

Lil...this just now stuck out at me. You mean TS acually lived in SA and went to school there ??? Do you know when this was ???

 

[BeanE]

Lil...this just now stuck out at me. You mean TS acually lived in SA and went to school there ??? Do you know when this was ???

My understanding is that Tammi went to school in California, and the certificate she received for that training was issued from the headquarters, which is in San Antonio.

Litl, we need a link if you have confirmation that Tammi went to school in San Antonio.

TIA

 

[TXHOPE]

In the 7 minute raw video at KPHO, KG is asked about the charges against EJ. He says something to the effect that EJ was "betrayed" by somebody or "set up" by somebody and that if her story is proven, then her sentence should be greatly reduced.

This statement makes me point the finger at TPS. As many have said, I think EJ trusted her and then TPS threw EJ under the bus when their plans went awry.

I just watched the video again and in this part KG does state she was "betrayed", "set up" but how? To me it sounds like she thought something else was going to happen with Gabriel. That this couple was just going to hide Gabriel for her or the Smiths but now since everything blew up they have to keep Gabriel. That's scary if this couple had no intention of keeping him but then again maybe keeping Gabriel was their plan from day 1. Plus who could keep this child longer than a few days without falling in love with him (probably just my personal feelings on that one) and if they were willing to hide him than they probably had no problem taking a baby in and knew it could be a long term commitment.

 

[kappy50]

What happened in those 10 days Gabriel was with TS ? Was this the planning stage ?? But what has me puzzled when EJ met the Smiths on the 18th and took off abruptly, no mention had been made to LM about even doing a adoption. So why did TS wait until 12/22 to start her bs ??? Something happened on the 18Th with TS/JS...what I don't know...but whatever it was caused her to boogie....

 

[danisisa]

IONO, but something is not right about JS..He has contacts all over the South. Considering, he once was a musician and his family members would be older and have means to take care of a child. It seems to me that everyone else is focusing so much in TS that they are not considering JS. EJ would look to JS as a father figure. From looking at his interviews and the way he stutters during those interviews. Also, the way he cottles TS, I think that he would do anything for here and to keep her. I feel he know who has G and where he can be located. JMO

 

[BeanE]

This thread is to determine who the third party is that Ken revealed when he released the new information regarding Gabe's case. Ken said that third party suggested to Elizabeth during the week she was already in San Antonio that she hide Gabe, and that Elizabeth accepted that suggestion.

Ken further said that the new information revealed that Elizabeth planned on her own to move to San Antonio and that she took steps during that week in order to live there, but that something went wrong during that week, and she changed her plan to live in San Antonio.

If you'd like to develop other theories, please start a new thread, so that those who want to focus on the new information revealed by Ken can do so.

ETA: I created a thread for that topic and moved the related posts to it:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100999"]Theory - TS & EJ Planned for EJ to Go Somewhere Other Than San Antonio - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


Thanks,
BeanE

 

[TXHOPE]

I think she protests so much because she tries to back peddle to cover up evidence of phone calls made. I also think she thought that phone call from EJ was recorded by LE so she wanted to come out with it first in the media so it didn't look like she was trying cover anything. She probably only mentioned JM in the media because she knew there were phone records to show communication between TS, JM and EJ.