Who thinks Patsy is a normal mom and why?

[Fran Bancroft]

The challenge still stands...can ANYONE argue against their position? Does anyone have the guts to poke holes in their own theory?

 

[jubie]

The guts? Now that's funny.



See Ya.

 

[Fran Bancroft]

Thanks for spicing things up a bit, Jubie. I can't stand "boring" threads. I appreciate that you have your own opinions...I'm still hoping for a bit of open-mindedness to look at things in a new way. As long as people are locked in their positions unwilling to look at things differently, no new insight is gained. Hopefully someone will take my challenge-facts and theories don't have to be personal...in "fact" that's a quality of "facts" they are unbiased, unlike people. Now...upward and onward to the facts...

 

[Show Me]

What K777angel said.

Patsy loved her kids but she was a WEIRD mother to me. I was horrified to learn she dyed JonBenet's hair at 6...to me that is sending a signal to your child the color of their hair isn't good enough. And the beauty pageant costumes were not all innocent looking....like the Las Vegas one. Making a 20 year old out of a 6 year old turned my stomach.

IMO Patsy wrote the ransom note and I tend to lean to Patsy as the killer or involved in either the headblow or strangulation.

I don't believe it was premeditated murder but rather an 'accident' and an attempt to cover up the crime.

I think Patsy feels great remorse and wanted to be a good mother.

 

[Ivy]

Think about it this way: Would it be realistic to expect Chrisitans to play devil's advocate and argue against their strongly held religious beliefs? Would it be realistic to expect Republicans or Democrats to do the same and argue against their strongly held political beliefs?

I strongly believe that Patsy assisted John in the coverup and that she penned the fake ransom note to try to hide the fact that BDI. That doesn't make her an all-around bad person. She was wrong to try to implicate other people, but she did it out of desperation. I don't think Patsy was a bad mother to either Burke or JonBenet, even though I don't approve of kiddie pageants and I think Burke may have felt jealous because of all the attention Patsy lavished on JonBenet.

imo

 

[Seeker]

What K777angel said.

Patsy loved her kids but she was a WEIRD mother to me. I was horrified to learn she dyed JonBenet's hair at 6...to me that is sending a signal to your child the color of their hair isn't good enough. And the beauty pageant costumes were not all innocent looking....like the Las Vegas one. Making a 20 year old out of a 6 year old turned my stomach.

Yeah, what Show said, but let's not forget that John never said anything about JonBenet being in those pagents. He never told Patsy she should cool it, or that the costumes were over the top...

 

[Fran Bancroft]

Think about it this way: Would it be realistic to expect Chrisitans to play devil's advocate and argue against their strongly held religious beliefs? Would it be realistic to expect Republicans or Democrats to do the same and argue against their strongly held political beliefs?

Yes, I think so! In fact, watching/participating in exactly what you describe is what contributed to this idea...it works well.

 

[Ivy]

If you're referring in part to the PP, no one there is arguing AGAINST their strongly held political beliefs.

 

[Fran Bancroft]

If you're referring in part to the PP, no one there is arguing AGAINST their strongly held political beliefs.

LOL!! SO TRUE!! I doubt I would see this in the PP!

 

[TressaRing28]

I have learned alot from reading here and have formed some very strong opinions.

There is no sign of an intruder.
The ransom note is fake.
The Ramseys are the last to see her alive.
The murder scene was staged.
The pineapple IS important, Patsy lied about JonBenet being asleep when they came home.

JonBenet was awake when they got home that night, which means she was ALIVE! At some point after that she died, why didn't Pasty tell us that JonBenet was awake?


I stand firm by my belief that young girls should not be made up and paraded around like that.

Jubie

1) No signs? The Butler Pantry Door was opened when the police arrived.

2) Sure the RN was fake--- Jon Benet was dead.

3) How do you know the Ramseys were the last ones to see her alive ? Your source.

4) How do you know the the Murder scene was staged? From BPD? LOL
The FBI? Profiles from CBI? They holds some water but-- they been wrong lots of times --just look at Richard Pearl!

5) Yes the pineapple is important, How do you know know Patsy was lying?
John and Patsy both claimed she was sleeping. Can you give a source?

Sure Jon Benet was alive when she got home. She was fast asleep.


I form a different view point, believing that Modeling and Talent and Beauty pageants builds character. I sang in talent shows, dressed up and won serveral. I wasn't paraded around, I was on TV (Local channel) Video's were made and released to friends and family.

I have read most all the JonBenet Books. Everyone has a different opinion. Its good for us to check out other views . I am a fence sitter, and yes I have had a few splinters.

I also believe that Patsy wrote the RN but, do not think she killed JonBenet.

 

[tezi]

I also believe that Patsy wrote the RN but, do not think she killed JonBenet.

Patsy herself agreed that whoever wrote the RN killed JonBenet in one of the police interviews or on LKL, I can't remember which one.

Sure Jon Benet was alive when she got home. She was fast asleep.

Burke said that JonBenet walked upstairs, that she was awake when they got home. Now, whether or not she was asleep before they arrived home, I have no idea. I would believe Burke over anything that John or Patsy said!

 

[Seeker]

Patsy herself agreed that whoever wrote the RN killed JonBenet in one of the police interviews or on LKL, I can't remember which one.

It was on LKL, when they were facing Steve Thomas...that's why you remember it!

Burke said that JonBenet walked upstairs, that she was awake when they got home. Now, whether or not she was asleep before they arrived home, I have no idea. I would believe Burke over anything that John or Patsy said!

Yeahbutt, he also said he was asleep that morning...he even lied to officer Patterson when talked to at the White's house that same day....
I don't know if I'd believe him over his parents...

 

[TressaRing28]

Patsy herself agreed that whoever wrote the RN killed JonBenet in one of the police interviews or on LKL, I can't remember which one.

I remember the interview well... Steve Thomas run on like an idiot. I also know that Rams won a judgement against Thomas. So this means nothing to me. A moot subect.

Burke said that JonBenet walked upstairs, that she was awake when they got home. Now, whether or not she was asleep before they arrived home, I have no idea. I would believe Burke over anything that John or Patsy said!

Please source where Burke stating that JB was awake when she arrived home.

 

[AbigailCrane]

Who can defend Patsy?

Well, if experts say Patsy wrote the ransom note she should be sent to Camp Cupcake very soon Fran. Lying to authorities is not acceptable as we all know.

 

[Sprocket]

What K777angel said.

Patsy loved her kids but she was a WEIRD mother to me. I was horrified to learn she dyed JonBenet's hair at 6...to me that is sending a signal to your child the color of their hair isn't good enough. And the beauty pageant costumes were not all innocent looking....like the Las Vegas one. Making a 20 year old out of a 6 year old turned my stomach.

IMO Patsy wrote the ransom note and I tend to lean to Patsy as the killer or involved in either the headblow or strangulation.

I don't believe it was premeditated murder but rather an 'accident' and an attempt to cover up the crime.

I think Patsy feels great remorse and wanted to be a good mother.

Well, my mum put peroxide in my hair very young. She always wanted a "blonde" child. I don't remember it though; she must not have done it very often.

Now, back to Patsy: = Borderline Personality Disorder.

So, no, I don't think she was a good mother, and I would not be able to defend a position that she was.

 

[BlueCrab]

Well, if experts say Patsy wrote the ransom note she should be sent to Camp Cupcake very soon Fran. Lying to authorities is not acceptable as we all know.

Abigail,

It's doubtful that Patsy wrote the ransom note. The consensus of six handwriting experts used by the CBI was that it's not likely that Patsy wrote it. So they can't use Patsy's handwriting as a ticket to Camp Cupcake.

JMO

 

[TLynn]

Ransom note said:

Speaking to anyone about your situation...she dies

If we catch you talking to a stray dog...she dies

Then, what does Patsy do? She calls her friends over....

Nah, won't play your game of "devil's advocate" because I can't get beyond that. I'm not saying Patsy is responsible for JonBenet's death, but I can't pretend she's a "normal mom" either.

 

[KATKAT19691]

Well, I was hoping to see anyone who "defends" Patsy or in the case of one who doesn't, a devil advocates position. I personally think that when we challenge our own ideas, we broaden our perspectives.

Unfortunately, this seems to be another Patsy bashing thread, and has thus far failed the intention of broadening one's perspective.

Re: "normal" you interpret.

I will defend her, I would have called my close friends that morning. The friends that I have would have showed up and offered any help that they could. Including one that is an attorney has often said being an attorney would have sugg. right away legal coun. He yells at us for going before a judge for a parking tick. without an attorney. It is just how they think they know the police.
I would not have searched the house, after all the note said she was taken why would you think she would still be there and you would expect the police to do that.
I would not have went to wake my son because I would have tried to keep him from the horror as long as possible. I would have sent my son out of the house that day with a trusted friend, to keep him from the horror as long as possible and to focus on JonBenet and not have to worry where is Burke what is he hearing is he safe and okay.
The note said call at 10 am, she did state on Larry King live they did not know if that meant 10am that day or 10am the next, they did not know when the note was left. If it was left before midnight on the 25th it would be 10am the 26th, or if it was left after midnight on the 26th it would mean 10am on the 27th
If you have ever had your child missing even just for min. your mind races, you can not think and you are anything but "normal". This has happened to me. He was only gone for 10 min. and I could not breath or think, I did do unusual things. Did not react at all like I thought I should or would.
I think Patsy's lives in a world most of us have no idea about. People with money do act different, the same way they think those of us who are middle class act.
I don't think there is anything wrong with pagents or being cheerleaders or anything else. It us usually people who could not compete in pagents or make it as cheerleader or who have daughters that could not that are so against them. I don't mean to insult anyone or their child. But if you have ever done any of it, you would know that it is like a club, something fun to do and yes it makes you special as I think we can all agree JonBenet was.
People from Texas are often labled as different, and I guess we are but I do not think that is a bad thing. We believe in going to church and if you commit a crime and hurt someone sell our kids drugs or kill them in an accident while drinking, well get a rope and find a tree. We also know kids do stupid things too.
The other thing is if my son, hurt and killed my daughter at what I thought was an accident at the time, I would lie and cover for him, that would be my first thing, to protect my child. I do believe Burke was involved it is the only thing that makes sense to me. It is the only thing that explains all the lies. I often wonder what she must think now. Now that she has more info. I wonder if she regrets covering for Burke and poss. Doug Stine.
I do defend Patsy, because if I was in her shoes, just lost one child would not want to lose another, can't think of anything I would do differently.
I dont know why people think it is so strange for her to call her friends, would you not need support during this time. If no family is there would you not call friends?

kat
IMO

 

[KATKAT19691]

Thanks for spicing things up a bit, Jubie. I can't stand "boring" threads. I appreciate that you have your own opinions...I'm still hoping for a bit of open-mindedness to look at things in a new way. As long as people are locked in their positions unwilling to look at things differently, no new insight is gained. Hopefully someone will take my challenge-facts and theories don't have to be personal...in "fact" that's a quality of "facts" they are unbiased, unlike people. Now...upward and onward to the facts...

You need to state your theory before we can poke holes or challenge it? What is your theory?

Kat
IMO

PS
If your daughter or son, has enough talent and has the want to, go for it put them in a pagent, the friends they make there will last a life time and it is something special for them to share. I have a friend with a beautiful and very talented 5 year old, the kid loves to get up and sing in front of everyone and if it is pagent day you can not keep her still. So unless you have been involved in it, how in the world could you have an opinion about it unless you are closed minded.

Kat
IMO

 

[Fran Bancroft]

You need to state your theory before we can poke holes or challenge it? What is your theory?

Kat
IMO

PS
If your daughter or son, has enough talent and has the want to, go for it put them in a pagent, the friends they make there will last a life time and it is something special for them to share. I have a friend with a beautiful and very talented 5 year old, the kid loves to get up and sing in front of everyone and if it is pagent day you can not keep her still. So unless you have been involved in it, how in the world could you have an opinion about it unless you are closed minded.

Kat
IMO

Hi Kat,

I appreciate your responses. I'm not sure I understand your question, however, are you asking me for my theory? I can't say that I exactly have a "well formed" theory, if that is what you're asking for. But, I will say this, that so far, I do not believe that Patsy or any family member is involved in anyway. To date, things that have been suggested as "proof" or "inconsistecies=lies" esp. concerning Patsy, have not convinced me at all. I'm personally very troubled at the attacks on Patsy as I believe that not only does this compound the greiving and loss, but more that the killer is benefitting by the misdirected accusations.

I agree with many things that you said in your second to last post. I too would have called a friend, not woken my son, and then sent him out. I say this as a mom who has lived with tragedy to one child...I tried to protect my other children from it and was very narrow-mindedly focused on the one whom was stricken by tragedy (no, I don't really care to go into it). But, the point is, that I can identify personally with so much of what Patsy has done that is what people are using to accuse her. The funny thing is, that while I was never of the opinion that Patsy was involved, our worst family tragedy involving my son, didn't happen until 99.

I noted that some used a slip of "3 am" by John Ramsey as evidence that he was lying...I slip like that all the time...I'm not lying however, and the more stressed I am, the more I slip. I could be thinking of two separate thoughts at the same time and put them together audibly and it comes out totally screwy. Also, with the kids and when they got home and whether they were awake, asleep, hungry, etc., all of that seems quite "normal" to me, as a mom of 4 kids...I've had so many late nights coming home (esp from hospital ER's)...someone's asleep and then awake, or someone "thinks" someone is asleep or vice versa, kids wake up, eat, go back to bed...I've woken up in the morning many times to find evidence of midnight snackers...

Anyway, I haven't been "convinced" of any wrong doing by any family member. I am interested to hear what folks (esp those who know the details better than I) have to say about why they think I'm wrong,...but that's not to say that I would agree necessarily. But, I am very interested in "hearing" differing views, POLITELY stated.

Likewise, I think that not only should I be willing to hear opposing views-or as you said, have holes poked in the theory-but, it seems prudent to do the same with other theories.

It seems that the majority of the world, and WS seem to think that Patsy and/or the family is guilty of something...and, in 8? years, this has gone nowhere, so, to me, it seems reasonable that something is missing and why not oppose this common belief (yes, that I believe is very misguided).

"Intuitively" I feel like I would recognize the killer if I were privy, at the time, to those whom were acquainted with the Ramsey's. I suppose this sounds odd, I might also say it like an "intuitive profile"-I'm not sure if I could put this profile into words, but, I'm going to think on that...and if I can, I will share.

As far as pageants, I'm not sure if you were suggesting criticalness or judgmentalism? My view is fairly neutral...they are not something I'm interested in for my family...I am not "against" others who do them...I agree this could be a very good opportunity for those who participate. I talk to my children all the time about opportunities in life. By virtue of the fact that we are all unique individuals, living unique lives, our opportunities will not be the same...the pageant opportunities aren't appropriate for my family and we focus on other opportunities. My two younger children are very outgoing, well rounded kids who love Bible quizzing, my daughter loves to run and dance. My oldest is a history buff-he wants to be a history professor and he's a star cross country runner. He's EXTREMELY talented in running, but he's not very competetive, he just loves to run. He's fast-very fast. If he decides in the next year to seriously compete, I would very realistically expect to see him in national competitions and more.

Me, I love music, I play cello, oboe and the piano. I played with a fine symphony when I was younger. At the moment, I am so happy to be a mom and I'm very busy with my job (I do research), so, my "passion" is set aside for now.

....these things, to me, are about embracing the "appropriate" opportunity at the right time in one's life...pageants don't fit with our family...but that is not the same as criticizing what someone else chooses to do...so, I don't know if that is what you were or were not suggesting, but, there's my opinion.

Back to my goal, I think it is a good place to be to be able to say "this is 'why' I believe theory 'A', but, this is where my theory is weak-or this is what someone else would say about why my theory is weak".

I used to do AIDS counseling, as part of our training, we were required to role play opposite political and religious and cultural view of the AIDS issue...I think that was helpful. Likewise, taking a similiar devil's advocate approach, seems like it could potentially be useful here...if anyone agrees and cares to, I'd be interested in hearing (reading) you're own devils advocate approach to your own theory. I hope in so doing with this exchange we are all the better refined in our theories.

I need to clarify...the "Ramsey's" that I am not suspicious of are Burke, Patsy and John. I reserve further opinions for when I have more information...