Why Not Burke?

[Rupert]

You are probably right about this. And Patsy went into overdrive to hide this unthinkable. Or she actually did this herself in a rage that Jonbenet would be so unthinking to her pain. Afterall, this was her husband not Jonbenet's. In any case, this is a very dysfunctional family. The only victim as far as I can see is Jonbenet Ramsey. A little girl.

"Or she actually did this herself in a rage that JonBenet would be so unthinking to her pain."

I've never heard it stated that way, but hypothetically it would explain alot of things. Especially the garrote coming before the head bash. It was a brutal killing. Or how about the prayer for forgiveness. It is unthinkable I agree. That's why few talk about it.

 

[narlacat]

You are probably right about this. And Patsy went into overdrive to hide this unthinkable. Or she actually did this herself in a rage that Jonbenet would be so unthinking to her pain. Afterall, this was her husband not Jonbenet's. In any case, this is a very dysfunctional family. The only victim as far as I can see is Jonbenet Ramsey. A little girl.

You did better than me Rupert.
As someone else here says...colour me stupid! I have no idea what concernedperson is trying to say here.

 

[Maikai]

Maikai,
Please explain the connection between Dixieland article and southern common sense. I never heard that one before.

From the access article: "A dixieland jazz band made the rounds at Access' Boulder offices Friday morning to announce the celebration and later played at the Boulderado"

Dixieland is clearly southern. The article also talks about Access being the merger of 3 companies---one of them in Roswell, GA. The band played at Access, then went out into the maill on Pearl Street, and into the Boulderado. There may have been southern things in the house---don't know this for a fact, but one tree may have had a southern team, with magnolias on it.

 

[LinasK]

You did better than me Rupert.
As someone else here says...colour me stupid! I have no idea what concernedperson is trying to say here.

I think CP is trying to say part or all of Patsy's jealousy at JB may have been that John was sleeping with (to phrase it politely) JB rather than her!

 

[narlacat]

Thanks Linask, I figured that bit afterwards but still don't understand what she meant by "Or she actually did this herself in a rage that JonBenet would be so unthinking to her pain."

 

[Rupert]

Thanks Linask, I figured that bit afterwards but still don't understand what she meant by "Or she actually did this herself in a rage that JonBenet would be so unthinking to her pain."

Narlacat,
My understanding is that CP is saying that from PR's point of view JBR was inconsiderate of the pain caused to PR by incest. This would give PR the excuse to take her anger out on both. Ugly. Unthinkable.

 

[narlacat]

Narlacat,
My understanding is that CP is saying that from PR's point of view JBR was inconsiderate of the pain caused to PR by incest. This would give PR the excuse to take her anger out on both. Ugly. Unthinkable.

Ok got it now.....
I've never understood this reasoning. Do mothers who catch their husbands abusing their child, blame the child?? I guess they do......but a 6 year old??? How can anyone think a 6 year old who is being molested by their father has any idea she is hurting her mother by allowing him to molest her.
I actually don't discount the theory that John Ramsey was abusing his daughter and that Patsy found out and went ballistic, went for John and accidently connected with JonBenet.
I don't believe Patsy was stupid enough or crazy enough to believe it was in anyway JonBenet's fault.
John covered for Patsy because of course, it was his fault really that she was dead.
I just can't see him covering for her if he wasn't somehow involved. Their's was not the happy happy marriage they professed it to be. There were problems, he was rumoured to be having an affair and he complained how much money she spent.
The only other way I see them both standing by each other and covering up the death of their daughter is if Burke was involved. They had no way of knowing what the laws were concerning minors.

 

[mjak]

I have heard theories like this before but never have I seen any evidence to back it up.
Where is the evidence that this family was dysfunctional or there was Incest going on?
I am not saying I believe the Ramseys are not involved I have just never found anything to support these types of theories. Can anyone produce any links or evidence of these types of issues?

mjak

 

[Brefie]

Ok got it now.....
I've never understood this reasoning. Do mothers who catch their husbands abusing their child, blame the child?? I guess they do......but a 6 year old??? How can anyone think a 6 year old who is being molested by their father has any idea she is hurting her mother by allowing him to molest her.
I actually don't discount the theory that John Ramsey was abusing his daughter and that Patsy found out and went ballistic, went for John and accidently connected with JonBenet.
I don't believe Patsy was stupid enough or crazy enough to believe it was in anyway JonBenet's fault.
John covered for Patsy because of course, it was his fault really that she was dead.
I just can't see him covering for her if he wasn't somehow involved. Their's was not the happy happy marriage they professed it to be. There were problems, he was rumoured to be having an affair and he complained how much money she spent.
The only other way I see them both standing by each other and covering up the death of their daughter is if Burke was involved. They had no way of knowing what the laws were concerning minors.

I don't believe for a second that JBR was killed at the hands of Patsy because of a jealous rage. I just really believe that if Patsy were really that twisted there would be signs showing up left and right. While I think all kinds of other terrible things of Patsy, this is not one of them.

Also, I don't believe the amounts of money she spent was that big of a factor in their unhappy marriage. He had a boat and a plane, for cripe's sake! they don't come cheap. The impression I get of their marriage is that it worked on some level for both of them and that was fine. I think Patsy could have been quite happy choosing money over true love and was okay with her decision.
On second thought, perhaps John could have been angered with her spending money so excessively, especially if he knew there was no love between them. In that case, they should have been divorced years before.

ETA: It was me who said 'color me stupid'

 

[concernedperson]

Narlacat,
My understanding is that CP is saying that from PR's point of view JBR was inconsiderate of the pain caused to PR by incest. This would give PR the excuse to take her anger out on both. Ugly. Unthinkable.

That is what I was trying to say. Yes, it is unthinkable and ugly. Some people think of their children as chattel without real feelings of their own....only extensions of themselves. I guess we could those people narcissists. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

 

[Toltec]

Ok got it now.....
I've never understood this reasoning. Do mothers who catch their husbands abusing their child, blame the child?? I guess they do......but a 6 year old??? How can anyone think a 6 year old who is being molested by their father has any idea she is hurting her mother by allowing him to molest her.
I actually don't discount the theory that John Ramsey was abusing his daughter and that Patsy found out and went ballistic, went for John and accidently connected with JonBenet.
I don't believe Patsy was stupid enough or crazy enough to believe it was in anyway JonBenet's fault.
John covered for Patsy because of course, it was his fault really that she was dead.
I just can't see him covering for her if he wasn't somehow involved. Their's was not the happy happy marriage they professed it to be. There were problems, he was rumoured to be having an affair and he complained how much money she spent.
The only other way I see them both standing by each other and covering up the death of their daughter is if Burke was involved. They had no way of knowing what the laws were concerning minors.

I believe Patsy was sexually abused as a child by her Daddy....and seeing her beloved daughter suffering the same fate sent Patsy over the edge. That could be one theory. If that is the case...that would explain John's silence.

 

[narlacat]

That is what I was trying to say. Yes, it is unthinkable and ugly. Some people think of their children as chattel without real feelings of their own....only extensions of themselves. I guess we could those people narcissists. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

No misunderstanding CP, just me having to have everything spelt out for me!

 

[capps]

I have heard theories like this before but never have I seen any evidence to back it up.
Where is the evidence that this family was dysfunctional or there was Incest going on?
I am not saying I believe the Ramseys are not involved I have just never found anything to support these types of theories. Can anyone produce any links or evidence of these types of issues?

mjak

mjak,

I haven't seen any hard evidence of it either.
Nowhere have I ever read that any relatives, neighbors,friends,coworkers etc.,ever hinted at the Ramsey family being dysfunctional.I've only read it on forums.
As far as incest,the only thing out there,is that ST (I believe), claims there is a picture of a dictionary that is opened to a page that has the word incest.The public has never seen it.

I think it is just peoples opinions.

 

[concernedperson]

mjak,

I haven't seen any hard evidence of it either.
Nowhere have I ever read that any relatives, neighbors,friends,coworkers etc.,ever hinted at the Ramsey family being dysfunctional.I've only read it on forums.
As far as incest,the only thing out there,is that ST (I believe), claims there is a picture of a dictionary that is opened to a page that has the word incest.The public has never seen it.

I think it is just peoples opinions.

Of course I can't testify to any incest as I was never inside their home. But I have witnessed (which I have posted before) Patsy's rage. I call it black rage where someone gets rigid and the veins in their neck are bulging and the filth spewed from their mouths is incredible. I was working on a property where they were residents while their home was being built. There was a misunderstanding over a UPS delivery. She didn't want to have to pick it up in the leasing office, she wanted it hand delivered...our office was too busy and that wasn't usual anyway. She lit into one of my associates like a crazed devil from hell...I was way in the foreground but the sound of her voice resonated to the tops of the ceiling. It was incredible. That is my only direct experience with her and I personally never want another one. JMHO. Period.

 

[LinasK]

I have heard theories like this before but never have I seen any evidence to back it up.
Where is the evidence that this family was dysfunctional or there was Incest going on?
I am not saying I believe the Ramseys are not involved I have just never found anything to support these types of theories. Can anyone produce any links or evidence of these types of issues?

mjak

Laurence Schiller's book contains the evidence that JBR was sexually molested, also the tabloids has published photos of her with bruises on her arms in her pageant outfits. In addition, IMO, she was a prime target because of the provocative outfits Patsy dressed her in!

 

[narlacat]

Wow thanks for sharing that little story CP. I hadn't read that before, glad you posted it again.

It sounds typical of the Patsy I've come to know. She was a woman who played by her own rules and wanted everything her way.
Mjak, no I cant produce any links and maybe there isn't even any evidence to suggest incest was at play in the Ramsey household. What we are doing is speculating.
There is conflicting evidence re: JonBenet being abused. The experts could not agree which means we have to decide for ourselves whether or not we think someone was messing with JonBenet.
I think someone was.
Therefore , it had to be someone who was close to her or someone who had access to her on a regular basis.

 

[concernedperson]

With my no basis and JMO Patsy is the culprit. What I witnessed and have read on these boards nothing has changed my mind. I feel JBR is cast aside and her murder has become political vs. a real crime investigation. I think this little girl deserves all the manpower available. I still see her as someone else's tool and never fully realized as her own human being. I would like to see her have her day. But I have an affinity for children.

 

[Maikai]

Wow thanks for sharing that little story CP. I hadn't read that before, glad you posted it again.

It sounds typical of the Patsy I've come to know. She was a woman who played by her own rules and wanted everything her way.

How have you come to know Patsy? By what you read on the forums, and heard from the likes of Steve Thomas? I've talked to people that knew the family in Boulder, and no one has anything negative at all to say--with the worst I've heard is one person didn't like the showy decoration in the house---not exactly Boulder style. As far as Patsy, she had a reputation of donating time to charities...being very kind and generous to people, and she was a wonderful mother, not just to her own children, but to JR's children from his previous marriage. There were comments that some people were very jealous of the family.

And what do you know about cancer survivors? When given a second chance--or at least more time, do you think they become homicidal maniacs that kill their children? I don't think so...I think they're grateful every morning they wake up and make the most of each day and cherish their family and friends even more.

 

[Brefie]

How have you come to know Patsy? By what you read on the forums, and heard from the likes of Steve Thomas? I've talked to people that knew the family in Boulder, and no one has anything negative at all to say--with the worst I've heard is one person didn't like the showy decoration in the house---not exactly Boulder style. As far as Patsy, she had a reputation of donating time to charities...being very kind and generous to people, and she was a wonderful mother, not just to her own children, but to JR's children from his previous marriage. There were comments that some people were very jealous of the family.

And what do you know about cancer survivors? When given a second chance--or at least more time, do you think they become homicidal maniacs that kill their children? I don't think so...I think they're grateful every morning they wake up and make the most of each day and cherish their family and friends even more.

What you say about cancer survivors is kind of the reason I believe John was not molesting JonBenet. He had already lost a child and was by all accounts utterly devastated, therefore, I tend to think his remaining children were unbelievably dear to him.

However, neither reasoning disproves a tragic accident and a cover up.

 

[concernedperson]

What you say about cancer survivors is kind of the reason I believe John was not molesting JonBenet. He had already lost a child and was by all accounts utterly devastated, therefore, I tend to think his remaining children were unbelievably dear to him.

However, neither reasoning disproves a tragic accident and a cover up.

All I can say to this is my daughter was a cancer survivor. But all everyone akin to me shared was giving footballs at high school games and coming to my town, ostendsiblity to see my daughter but wanting to be escorted to Braves games. It was an exercise in family dynamics that I have never forgotten. And won't to this day.It is called dysfunction.