Why? What was the motive?

[cami]

On the question of motive, I would agree that it was a spontaneous "rage" killing. Something (who knows what?) set Darlie off and she took it out on the boys. IMO, these killiings were much too "up close and personal" for it to be something like an insurance scam. Plus there was overkill, which is a clear indicator of rage.

A good book to read on the subject is John Douglas's "The Anatomy of Motive". This book doesn't deal with the Routier case, but it does analyze this type of murder.

This is another reason I can't buy the intruder story. I don't believe that a burglar, no matter how stupid, would have brutally stabbed two little boys, then tried to slit Darlie's throat with the delicacy of a surgeon. He'd have stabbed her, too, or he'd have done an O.J. and nearly decapitated her. But he would not have given her the opportunity to alert anyone else in the house.

Just my humble opinion.

Jim

I agree with your post Jim. It's what I think happened as well.

 

[Goody]

I'm not sure that proves that the insurance money wasn't the original motive. I'm not claiming that I think it was- but we always say 'the funerals cost more than the insurance so that couldn't have been it'. But would Darlie have either known how much funerals cost or even if she had would she have been personally willing to spend that much on them anyway? Perhaps the pressure to spend that much came from Darin or the family?

As I said, I don't think the $10 000 insurance money was the incentive to kill her kids. But I don't think we can necessarily rule in out just because of hindsight

I agree and I think I have posted similar thoughts a time or two. It is just too coincidental that the insurance money was the exact amount of money she told Basia's mother she needed that very day.

 

[Goody]

.... I originally thought it was the insurance, even though I could only see the insurance money getting them through maybe 2 months of monthly debts. I admit, it's shallow. Darlie I think told someone she and Darin had had a big old fight that night and Darlie was leaving Darin. I think it was the other way around. I think Darin was leaving Darlie, (not literally, but emotionally and mentally) or Darlie had suspected Darin of cheating on her with her sister. Something set Darlie off that night. I'm not even sure if Darin was home yet from taking Dana home that night, even though he says he was in bed asleep. I think in a fit of rage Darlie killed the boys. Maybe in a sick need to have Darin pay her attention, she involved him hoping against hope that he would side with her and protect her, since in Darlie's mind Darin made her do the killings. I think Darin walked into the mess after returning from taking Dana home. Or, Darin dismissed Darlie's raging about him being out so late taking her sister home, or she asked for a divorce and he said "fine", and he went upstairs to go to bed. In a fit of rage and disbelief Darlie set the murder into motion. At some point Darin became aware of what was happening. But on the 911 tape he sounds totally surprised by what is taking place around him. I think Darin was used to Darlie's rantings and ravings and screamings and squealings like we hear on the 911 tape, and just dismissed all the noise as "typical Darlie behavior when she doesn't get her way".

How do you account for the time element. Devon could have been killed earlier than Damon, but in order for your theory to be accurate, Darin would have to return home from the trip with Dana immediately after the stabbing of at least Damon and then would have only about 3.5 minutes to adjust to what had happened, plan what they were going to do, help her do the staging, and still not leave any bloody footprints of his own (which I find interesting to say the least no matter how he was involved). That is a pretty tight schedule. I am not even sure it could be done.

 

[Goody]

.... I originally thought it was the insurance, even though I could only see the insurance money getting them through maybe 2 months of monthly debts. I admit, it's shallow. Darlie I think told someone she and Darin had had a big old fight that night and Darlie was leaving Darin. I think it was the other way around. I think Darin was leaving Darlie, (not literally, but emotionally and mentally) or Darlie had suspected Darin of cheating on her with her sister. Something set Darlie off that night. I'm not even sure if Darin was home yet from taking Dana home that night, even though he says he was in bed asleep. I think in a fit of rage Darlie killed the boys. Maybe in a sick need to have Darin pay her attention, she involved him hoping against hope that he would side with her and protect her, since in Darlie's mind Darin made her do the killings. I think Darin walked into the mess after returning from taking Dana home. Or, Darin dismissed Darlie's raging about him being out so late taking her sister home, or she asked for a divorce and he said "fine", and he went upstairs to go to bed. In a fit of rage and disbelief Darlie set the murder into motion. At some point Darin became aware of what was happening. But on the 911 tape he sounds totally surprised by what is taking place around him. I think Darin was used to Darlie's rantings and ravings and screamings and squealings like we hear on the 911 tape, and just dismissed all the noise as "typical Darlie behavior when she doesn't get her way".

How do you account for the time element? Devon could have been killed earlier than Damon, but in order for your theory to be accurate, Darin would have to return home from the trip with Dana immediately after the stabbing of at least Damon and then would have only about 3.5 minutes to adjust to what had happened, plan what they were going to do, help her do the staging, and still not leave any bloody footprints of his own (which I find interesting to say the least no matter how he was involved). That is a pretty tight schedule. I am not even sure it could be done.

 

[Goody]

First, Hi Goody. Hope you are feeling better.

I saw a special on this murder some time ago, and the thing that sticks in my head is that Darlie felt the boys were standing in the way of her 'llove' life. They gave the impression that #1 of importance to her was romance and sex, and #2 was her family.

Scandi

Feeling just fine today, thank you.

There was some indication of the two of them talking about how the boys interfered with their sex life. Not unusual for parents o feel that way. Kids ususally do tame things down. The state didn't dwell on it though and I think they might have missed some good circumstantial evidence in this vein. I wish more information had been presented by the social workers and therapists who were involved in the case relating to the custody of Drake. The dynamics of the family were not pursued enough, imo.

But that makes me think that the two of them together were most likely involved and that killings were thrown together in a rushed haphazard plan almost on the spur of the moment as it developed out of an agrument starting over money, talk of a separation, followed by some dramatics, followed by kissing and making up, talking about the pressures on the relationship, and how most of their problems were the boys fault. It is not ususual for young couples to blame the children for their relationship problems. It is a sign of immaturity and lack of responsibility. If they blame the kids, they don't have to blame each other and can start out again on an even keel. They also don't have to take responsibility for their own flaws.

So I can see that happening, buy you say, "How does that lead to murder?" I can only offer that maybe in some bizarre, impulsive mindset one of them pulled the murder plot out of the hat. I suspect that person would have been Darlie. I also suspect that she first thought of it before that night.....Sometime after that suicide attempt/threat the preceeding month and the argument that night, the decision to kill the kids surfaced. It probably resurfaced a few times before it was actually accepted as the solution to their problems.

If something along those lines did happen, then Darin's remarks only a few days later make an awful lot of sense. He says that they lost track of what was important because they so busy "living large." It almost sounds like he is saying, "What were we thinking?????" Like the quiet after the storm when the sunlight comes out and you are looking all around you, wondering what happened and thinking how foolish it was to take all this for granted.

So when thinking of a plan, I think it is best to see it in this case as a haphazard impulsive plan rather than one that is well thought out. I don't think they thought they COULD get caught for this because they had each other to back them up. When you add that to their obvious mindset of not expecting their words to be held against them with nearly as much precision as they were, and you might just have a couple of people who could step out of the society's reality and into a macabre one of their own late one night after an argument. Things can often look very diferent in the morning. I expect their morning after was a doozy.

 

[Goody]

I don't think the murders were that planned out. They'd have to be if they thought they could get some movie deals. It's way too sloppy for that. It'd have been easier to just buy additional insurance on the boys. There is a federal law which says that convicted felons cannot profit off of their stories or any supposed artwork, etc while in prison. It's a new law and I'm not sure if it was in effect then or not. I don't think it was.
As far as her cash flow dwindling, Darlie might have felt the boys were a burden, but I don't think she mapped out these murders. Flying off the handle is more like it. I don't doubt that she had thought of it before, maybe thinking she'd have more freedom, more money and more romantic outings without them.

Do you know how long it would take to attack two boys the way these two were attacked? You would think after two or three thrusts with the knife, she would have felt some type of emotional relief and come to her senses. Then she would have been terrified by what she'd done and try to figure out what to do. You don't just come up with those ideas in seconds.

How does she fly off the handle and kill both boys in a rage, then have the wherewithall to come up with a story and enough staging to halfway support her story. If she was a loving mother who just buckled under the pressure, even if she were often selfish and inattentive to the children, how does she just flip and do all she did in one felled swoop without confessing during interrogation? And do it all within 3.5 minutes (from the attack on Damon to the 911 call)?

 

[Goody]

I have never read the timeline of how long it took him to take Dana home. I know he left around 9 or 9:30 pm, but when did he return? I had always assumed that he came straight home afterward, but maybe he didn't, maybe he spent several hours with Dana or someone else. When he got home Darlie lit into him, he in response blew her off and went to bed. In a fit of rage she.....well you know the rest. JMO

He testified that it took him 30 minutes to make the trip and get back home. It was late enough that traffic would probably not have been a problem, and I have posted with people from that area that say you can do Rowlet to Plano and back in that time, so unless someone with some knowledge here can dispute that, I have accepted it. The state did not have Dana testify though so we only have Darin's word.

 

[Goody]

Darin was gone longer than the 20 or 30 minutes it would have taken to take Dana home that night. I'm not sure how much longer, not hours, but longer. I don't believe anything was going on between the two, but I believe Darlie was just about going nuts during that period (I'm thinking a week, two weeks) and in her mind, anything was possible.

Why do you believe that, Jeana?

 

[Goody]

I agree. He admits it took him longer than it should have taken, but offers no reason why, right? And like you said, she was already freaking out, so it's not that far-fetched for her to start imagining there was something going on between Darin and Dana

Where does he admit it took him longer than it should have?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Why do you believe that, Jeana?

That Darlie had been frustrated for a period of time leading up to the murders? For all of the reasons I've discussed previously. No money, bills overdue, collection notes/calls, broken down vehicle, etc.

 

[j2mirish]

Do you know how long it would take to attack two boys the way these two were attacked? You would think after two or three thrusts with the knife, she would have felt some type of emotional relief and come to her senses. Then she would have been terrified by what she'd done and try to figure out what to do. You don't just come up with those ideas in seconds.

How does she fly off the handle and kill both boys in a rage, then have the wherewithall to come up with a story and enough staging to halfway support her story. If she was a loving mother who just buckled under the pressure, even if she were often selfish and inattentive to the children, how does she just flip and do all she did in one felled swoop without confessing during interrogation? And do it all within 3.5 minutes (from the attack on Damon to the 911 call)?

Goody- I am beginning to believe you have jumped ship here......

 

[beesy]

Do you know how long it would take to attack two boys the way these two were attacked? You would think after two or three thrusts with the knife, she would have felt some type of emotional relief and come to her senses. Then she would have been terrified by what she'd done and try to figure out what to do. You don't just come up with those ideas in seconds.

How does she fly off the handle and kill both boys in a rage, then have the wherewithall to come up with a story and enough staging to halfway support her story. If she was a loving mother who just buckled under the pressure, even if she were often selfish and inattentive to the children, how does she just flip and do all she did in one felled swoop without confessing during interrogation? And do it all within 3.5 minutes (from the attack on Damon to the 911 call)?

I meant, as we've discussed before, that it wasn't planned out for days or weeks. I thought that was what you were saying

 

[beesy]

Where does he admit it took him longer than it should have?

It is in Springer's book, I believe. Darin lies alot, but I don't know why he'd lie about that

 

[Goody]

I meant, as we've discussed before, that it wasn't planned out for days or weeks. I thought that was what you were saying

I agree that I it was not well planned and probably not done well in advance. I think she toyed with the idea some in the month between the murders and the suicide attempt/threat in May. She obviously never got around to planning most of the details, probably because it just spun out of control unexpectedly that night. By that I mean, it was partially planned and mostly not. Make sense? What she didn't get around to planning, she just went by the seat of her pants. That is why it appears to be haphazard. It was haphazardly planned. But she didn't throw it all together in 3.5 minutes. There had to be more time involved in this crime than the time frame allowed by the state.

 

[Goody]

Goody- I am beginning to believe you have jumped ship here......

Why? I believe Darlie committed the crime. I am just not so sure it went down the way the state said it did. I think a lot more is involved than just one crazy housewife wiping out to kids in a rage.

 

[Goody]

It is in Springer's book, I believe. Darin lies alot, but I don't know why he'd lie about that

You'd have to show me the quote on that, like where she got the information from? His trial testimony or some other source?

 

[beesy]

You'd have to show me the quote on that, like where she got the information from? His trial testimony or some other source?

don't know, don't care

 

[Goody]

don't know, don't care

Then it is not worth discussing. Besides, even if Darin did take even an hour taking Dana home as opposed to the 30 minutes he testified to, it still doesn't effect the time line of the murders, esp as it was presented in court. You can't use to show he walked in on the murders because of it. About the only mileage you could get out it is to present the possbility of an affair that may have started a fight between them that eventually led to the murders, and without someone fessing up, that is pretty weak.

 

[beesy]

Then it is not worth discussing. Besides, even if Darin did take even an hour taking Dana home as opposed to the 30 minutes he testified to, it still doesn't effect the time line of the murders, esp as it was presented in court. You can't use to show he walked in on the murders because of it. About the only mileage you could get out it is to present the possbility of an affair that may have started a fight between them that eventually led to the murders, and without someone fessing up, that is pretty weak.

I don't think they were having an affair. I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me if Darlie was paranoid over it. I don't think her mind was quite right that day. She might have even suffered from a temporary psychosis, which includes delusional thoughts.
It doesn't change the timeline of the murder, but if he did take a little longer than normal to come home, it could have increased Darlie's general pissiness.

 

[beesy]

I agree that I it was not well planned and probably not done well in advance. I think she toyed with the idea some in the month between the murders and the suicide attempt/threat in May. She obviously never got around to planning most of the details, probably because it just spun out of control unexpectedly that night. By that I mean, it was partially planned and mostly not. Make sense? What she didn't get around to planning, she just went by the seat of her pants. That is why it appears to be haphazard. It was haphazardly planned. But she didn't throw it all together in 3.5 minutes. There had to be more time involved in this crime than the time frame allowed by the state.

I too feel she had the thought in her head for awhile. I didn't mean it totally on the spur of the moment. When I watch the Silly String tape, I see a woman free of her burdens. Perhaps thinking ahead about the boys being "gone" allowed that. Is it too far-fetched to see the two D's looking into some sort of insurance scam together? But then they couldn't get it finalized or changed their minds. With Darlie's state of mind by the time of the murders, maybe she realized that was the only way? I do think there was an argument about a separtion and money that night and maybe Darlie said she'd just do it her damn self. And he said have at it, not believing she had it in her to stab anybody, much less their own children.
Where is the 3.5 minutes coming in? I don't understand that.