bettybaby00
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Why would the Ramseys need to stage?
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DeDee
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JR is wrong. It started when his daughter was murdered and not when the BPD sent Det. LA to the scene of an alleged kidnapping.
Their grief was mostly false. 911 was not called until JonBenet was dead for hours. They saw their daughter as a thing; an object to possess. They abused JonBenet. They exploited her sexuality with the trained dramatic poses, expensive makeup, sensual walks, flirty looks and revealing pageant apparel, some that appear to have stuffing in the bust. Patsy pushed her daughter's sexuality. She may have even pushed JR to JonBenet then regretted it when she saw that JonBenet had the power. She won. Patsy was competitive. She had a cat fight with her daughter. Victory!
Chewy
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I sometimes wonder what people will think if it turns out that they didn't do it. The statements made about the parents and how they felt about their child, do not at all match the statements made by friends and family who actually knew them. So strange.
Chewy
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What would you have him say? He's talking about being put through hell over allegations that he killed his daughter. His statements make total and complete sense to me and don't reveal anything creepy.
His life was ruined, once you are under that veil of suspicion and your reputation is tarnished, it's over. You can never really come out of it again. This is what happened to him. What is weird to you about this statement?
Should he have been talking about Jonbenet's life? He did in the interview, in several places. But this was an excerpt about a specific reply to a question asked about how his life turned out.
As far as the incompetant LE that's a fact. That's not an opinion by JR. Anyone who looks at this case points out how LE didn't contain the crime scene. That's a rookie cop mistake, not a detective with "years of experience."
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Law enforcement was incompetent that day for one reason only. The NOTE. They trusted and were instructed to believe the Ramsey's.
IMO the note worked. It bought time.
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bettybaby00
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My first thought would be relief that JonBenet finally received justice, b/c that's the most important thing, regardless of who I may have come to believe was involved based on what I've learned about this case over the last couple of years.
For years I was IDI, never believing the parents had anything to do with it. I've known about this case since it first happened, but only knew what was "reported" by MSM.
Will I feel remorseful about my current beliefs about the Rs if it turns out that it really is IDI? For the most part, yes. I'll feel badly if I ever come to find out the Rs were TRUE victims.
However, I did say in part as I would forever question the Rs actions post murder. Why? B/c as the Whites so aptly put it....
It's not about having a lawyer, it's about the way those lawyers were used. Innocent people--with or without legal representation--don't behave that way.
As for the last part of your comment. Obviously those who stayed loyal to the Rs have always held quite a different view of them compared to all those they threw under the bus.
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It was never about the Ramsey's for me. It was always about justice for JonBenet.
I'd be thrilled a killer would be caught. I'd hope finally justice for JonBenet would be served.
In the grand scheme of things, my opinion of the Ramsey's is insignificant.
People outside of a house never really know what goes on behind closed doors.
The housekeepers who were indeed privy, certainly don't share the view of people on the outside. FW & his wife don't share the view of Ramsey's steadfast supporters.
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If something so heinous were to happen to my child, if I somehow managed to survive the loss. My concern wouldn't be myself. Ever.
My focus and concern would always be for my remaining children, how it effected them and helping find and hold responsible the guilty.
But that's just me...
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I wouldn't worry about feeling bad for them if it turns out IDI. It won't.
I think the above quote about the lawyers is spot on. The reality is innocent people simply do not act the way the R's did. Not just with the lawyers but also with ignoring the RN "warnings" and contacting half of Boulder to come over, their behavior to each other that morning, their changing stories. There is just so much, common sense defies IDI.
BTW, and slightly off thread topic, I caught a Law and Order rerun (from 1997) that was clearly a "ripped from the headlines" about this case. The daughter in the show was 14 and a model instead of a beauty pageant winner but the similiarities, refusal to cooperate, hiring an attorney immediately attorney spreading his own info to the press, etc. Even the "suggestion" of sexual abuse by her father. It was clearly this case.
Too bad Boulder didn't have Jack McCoy as DA instead of that whimp Alex Hunter.
Chewy
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He mentions all that in the interview, you just clipped a particular comment and pretended that's all he said.
And you haven't lost one of your kids so you really don't know what you'd do if that happened to you.
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I know my child is always my priority. Always.
While I've never lost one, the opportunity has presented itself more than once ...where I could have/should have , (if self preservation was my goal) put my self interest first and still chose to put my child first.
It's telling to me that John Ramsey spent more money on keeping himself and Patsy out of prison than he did on trying to get justice for his daughter.
He didn't hire a team of private investigators & lawyers to get closer to justice and the truth. He hired them to insure the truth was buried and justice was thwarted.
IMO
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Chewy
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He spent tons of money and even hired a private detective. But since Lou Smit didn't say what you wanted him to say, he's part of the Evil Ramsey Conspiracy.
He stated that he lived in a state of fear after this. He never let any of his friends get close to Burke because he couldn't trust anyone after this. He talks about his children a LOT.
Children are not ALWAYS my priority. They are my priority when they can be. And if my daughter died, she'd be a priority in my heart. Not in every single word that came out of my mouth. I'd have to learn to deal with the reality of her death.
I know three people who have lost children. They don't act the way you think they are "supposed to act." There comes a point where self preservation and sanity overrides the sorrow.
My MIL came into the kitchen a month after her son died and told my husband and my FIL. "We can't go on in this state of perpetual pain. He wouldn't have wanted this from us. We have to pick up the pieces and go on."
Friends of theirs said that they had aged 10 years in a matter of a week. The FIL had heart problems so his wife took on a stance of no more tragedy, we must move forward.
I'm sure you think she's a horrible mother for doing this. But my heart breaks for her.
He stated that he lived in a state of fear after this. He never let any of his friends get close to Burke because he couldn't trust anyone after this. He talks about his children a LOT.
Children are not ALWAYS my priority. They are my priority when they can be. And if my daughter died, she'd be a priority in my heart. Not in every single word that came out of my mouth. I'd have to learn to deal with the reality of her death.
I know three people who have lost children. They don't act the way you think they are "supposed to act." There comes a point where self preservation and sanity overrides the sorrow.
My MIL came into the kitchen a month after her son died and told my husband and my FIL. "We can't go on in this state of perpetual pain. He wouldn't have wanted this from us. We have to pick up the pieces and go on."
Friends of theirs said that they had aged 10 years in a matter of a week. The FIL had heart problems so his wife took on a stance of no more tragedy, we must move forward.
I'm sure you think she's a horrible mother for doing this. But my heart breaks for her.
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Yes yes, I've read his claims ..."constant fear".....yet still fails to set burglar alarm...
Actions speak louder than words.
He hired who he hired to defend HIS interests. His words. Not mine.
I don't expect people to live in pain perpetually. I'm speaking specifically of John Ramsey. He wasn't interviewed because anyone gives a rats behind about him or his financial struggles. The only reason he was interviewed ...JonBenet.
He didn't agree to the interview in hopes of resolving her death, he granted it because he wants sympathy.
Sorry for John? I'm all out. What I have is reserved for all the good people whose lives were forever changed, deliberately, by John Ramsey. They were just trying to get justice for a little girl whose life was bashed & strangled out of her.
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DeDee
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Pardon the interjection...
Let's look over facts about how they felt about their child to see if the RDI contributing members should harbor any guilty feelings.
Patsy Ramsey was a perfectionist who busied herself with living bc she was highly competitive. It is also how she dealt with stress. Her mother, at an early age, taught PR about her own viewpoint of men and that as a woman, her sex appeal was her power. PR wanted power and money. She grew to resent John's success in bussiness. It made him a fat cat. Hence, she was a fat cat, too.
Being a fat cat meant that they could do what they wanted to because they were now above the law. Patsy was miraculously cured of cancer and they were multimillionaires with clout.
JonBenet was 3yo when her mother was diagnosed with Stage 4 Ovarian Cancer. For a year, PRs cancer was attacked with harsh therapy, damaging her liver and, more importantly, losing her ovaries and uterus in the process. IOW, her womb was gone. Her very femininity was ripped from her. She was made barren. A barren fat cat who engaged her daughter in exploitive and dangerous ways.
Thus, PR thrust her willpower and energy into her two children. In the summers in Charlevoix, BR took sailing and golf lessons every day. JonBenet had dance, violin, and drama lessons and entered numerous beauty pageants.
In steady increments, JonBenet learned how to please an audience; ie., the judges [her parents]. She learned how to be appealing and became more seductive in her routines. Her custom designed pageant apparel was way over the top. We have all seen the pictures of JB's red lipstick, dressed in Channel inspired attire, wearing her well-trained sultry expressions.
John Ramsey condoned this sensual behavior. He likely enjoyed his young daughter and his beauty queen wife vying for his affection. Patsy spent thousands of dollars on the goal of JonBenet being labeled a beauty queen. She would win the Miss America title that her talented and artistic mother missed by a margin.
When Patsy was most vulnerable during her year of Cancer treatments, she was unable to fulfill him and settle his fear of losing her. It was a highly stressful time. It is reputed that JR had an eighteen month long affair, ATT, while, at home, he and JonBenet naturally bonded over the intense fear of losing Patsy. There are interesting clues of JR becoming distant in the Ramsey's Christmas letters of 1995 & 1996.
It was JonBenet's sensuality that Patsy willingly developed. JonBenet was a quick study. She was perfecting the pose that she could hold for up to thirty minutes, according to live interviews with PR. JonBenet was a multi-talented performer. Remember the jazzy gestures she made with her saxophone performance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93kBX6U1xu8
Is it any wonder that by the time JonBenet was 6yo, she was being sexually molested by someone in her family? Maybe molested by someone who had recently ended an illicit affair.
The transformation of JonBenet led to a triangulation of father, mother and daughter with the young daughter, eventually, gaining and holding the power.
JonBenet's parents loved her to death when they gave her the power that she learned to obtain from her own competitive and manipulative mother. Too late, Patsy realized her mistake.
JonBenet's body was found heinously battered, abraded and dead. She was found strangled in her own home with a ligature that contained fibers from her mother's clothing.
Her hymen was partially eroded and her vagina bled. Make no mistake. This was sex crime filled with rage but not all directed at JonBenet. The strip of black tape was placed on her tiny mouth with the connotation of "you will not speak of these events ever" and "you will not speak to me in that way ever again"; also held fibers belonging to her own mother.
A reasonable doubt can be formed that PR purchased both items at McGluckin's Hardware in the month of Dec., as the Rs AEx cc indicates; however, when bundled with all of the other accumulated circumstantial evidence, it fits the CS.
Then, comes the parents' lack of cooperation; the stonewalling, the story telling [lies], the pseudo-grief. As a former beauty queen contestant and journalism major, the socially adept Patsy was certainly prepared for strong defensive efforts that John, whether reluctantly or eagerly, participated in, along with his guilty wife. In for a penny; in for a pound.
John and Patsy, LE and the media unequivocally exposed the Ramsey's own exploitation of JonBenet, as well as their complexity, in the vicious, violent death of their young beauty queen daughter.
OMO
Let's look over facts about how they felt about their child to see if the RDI contributing members should harbor any guilty feelings.
Patsy Ramsey was a perfectionist who busied herself with living bc she was highly competitive. It is also how she dealt with stress. Her mother, at an early age, taught PR about her own viewpoint of men and that as a woman, her sex appeal was her power. PR wanted power and money. She grew to resent John's success in bussiness. It made him a fat cat. Hence, she was a fat cat, too.
Being a fat cat meant that they could do what they wanted to because they were now above the law. Patsy was miraculously cured of cancer and they were multimillionaires with clout.
JonBenet was 3yo when her mother was diagnosed with Stage 4 Ovarian Cancer. For a year, PRs cancer was attacked with harsh therapy, damaging her liver and, more importantly, losing her ovaries and uterus in the process. IOW, her womb was gone. Her very femininity was ripped from her. She was made barren. A barren fat cat who engaged her daughter in exploitive and dangerous ways.
Thus, PR thrust her willpower and energy into her two children. In the summers in Charlevoix, BR took sailing and golf lessons every day. JonBenet had dance, violin, and drama lessons and entered numerous beauty pageants.
In steady increments, JonBenet learned how to please an audience; ie., the judges [her parents]. She learned how to be appealing and became more seductive in her routines. Her custom designed pageant apparel was way over the top. We have all seen the pictures of JB's red lipstick, dressed in Channel inspired attire, wearing her well-trained sultry expressions.
John Ramsey condoned this sensual behavior. He likely enjoyed his young daughter and his beauty queen wife vying for his affection. Patsy spent thousands of dollars on the goal of JonBenet being labeled a beauty queen. She would win the Miss America title that her talented and artistic mother missed by a margin.
When Patsy was most vulnerable during her year of Cancer treatments, she was unable to fulfill him and settle his fear of losing her. It was a highly stressful time. It is reputed that JR had an eighteen month long affair, ATT, while, at home, he and JonBenet naturally bonded over the intense fear of losing Patsy. There are interesting clues of JR becoming distant in the Ramsey's Christmas letters of 1995 & 1996.
It was JonBenet's sensuality that Patsy willingly developed. JonBenet was a quick study. She was perfecting the pose that she could hold for up to thirty minutes, according to live interviews with PR. JonBenet was a multi-talented performer. Remember the jazzy gestures she made with her saxophone performance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93kBX6U1xu8
Is it any wonder that by the time JonBenet was 6yo, she was being sexually molested by someone in her family? Maybe molested by someone who had recently ended an illicit affair.
The transformation of JonBenet led to a triangulation of father, mother and daughter with the young daughter, eventually, gaining and holding the power.
JonBenet's parents loved her to death when they gave her the power that she learned to obtain from her own competitive and manipulative mother. Too late, Patsy realized her mistake.
JonBenet's body was found heinously battered, abraded and dead. She was found strangled in her own home with a ligature that contained fibers from her mother's clothing.
Her hymen was partially eroded and her vagina bled. Make no mistake. This was sex crime filled with rage but not all directed at JonBenet. The strip of black tape was placed on her tiny mouth with the connotation of "you will not speak of these events ever" and "you will not speak to me in that way ever again"; also held fibers belonging to her own mother.
A reasonable doubt can be formed that PR purchased both items at McGluckin's Hardware in the month of Dec., as the Rs AEx cc indicates; however, when bundled with all of the other accumulated circumstantial evidence, it fits the CS.
Then, comes the parents' lack of cooperation; the stonewalling, the story telling [lies], the pseudo-grief. As a former beauty queen contestant and journalism major, the socially adept Patsy was certainly prepared for strong defensive efforts that John, whether reluctantly or eagerly, participated in, along with his guilty wife. In for a penny; in for a pound.
John and Patsy, LE and the media unequivocally exposed the Ramsey's own exploitation of JonBenet, as well as their complexity, in the vicious, violent death of their young beauty queen daughter.
OMO
I would just be glad that this poor girl got justice. That's all that matters to me. I would assume that goes the same whether you are RDI or IDI.
Regardless whether you are RDI or IDI...there's potentially a child killer out there who is still loose. That should be the focus, IMHO.
gramcracker
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I wonder why the SFF folded their tent after this crime
bettybaby00
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K, sorry but I just :lol:
Speaking of the note, I'm nearly finished reading Cherokee's excellent analysis of the RN. Amazing stuff.
Analysis of the Linguistics and Handwriting in the Ramsey Ransom Note - Forums For Justice
Hope it's ok I reference it
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