Why would the Ramseys need to stage?

[txsvicki]

Were the fibers inside the panties the same as the ones on jonbenet where she seemed to have been wiped down and cleaned?

 

[DeeDee249]

Were the fibers inside the panties the same as the ones on jonbenet where she seemed to have been wiped down and cleaned?

No, I do not believe they were the same. The fibers taken from the panty crotch were definitely identified as the dark wool fibers that matched JR's wool Israeli shirt.
But the fibers that were found on her thighs and pubic area were said to be dark (blue?) cotton, not wool. There was a navy terrycloth bathrobe belonging to JR that was found in a den. There may have also been dark terry towels in the home. I do not think the bathrobe or any towels (or JR's shirt, for that matter, were tested to see whether they had traces of JB's blood on them. Obviously, whatever was used to wipe her would not only leave fibers on her, but would also have evidence of what was wiped- her blood.

 

[Chrishope]

No, I do not believe they were the same. The fibers taken from the panty crotch were definitely identified as the dark wool fibers that matched JR's wool Israeli shirt.
But the fibers that were found on her thighs and pubic area were said to be dark (blue?) cotton, not wool. There was a navy terrycloth bathrobe belonging to JR that was found in a den. There may have also been dark terry towels in the home. I do not think the bathrobe or any towels (or JR's shirt, for that matter, were tested to see whether they had traces of JB's blood on them. Obviously, whatever was used to wipe her would not only leave fibers on her, but would also have evidence of what was wiped- her blood.

And yet no bloody towels were found, JR's shirt was not seen to be bloody (thought not submitted until much later), the bathrobe wasn't bloody. Either the items used to wiper her down was hidden or it was put the the wash before the 911 call was made.

 

[txsvicki]

Patsy did say that she had laundry and was at the 2nd floor laundry area maybe 10 minutes before going down and finding the note.

 

[UKGuy]

No, I do not believe they were the same. The fibers taken from the panty crotch were definitely identified as the dark wool fibers that matched JR's wool Israeli shirt.
But the fibers that were found on her thighs and pubic area were said to be dark (blue?) cotton, not wool. There was a navy terrycloth bathrobe belonging to JR that was found in a den. There may have also been dark terry towels in the home. I do not think the bathrobe or any towels (or JR's shirt, for that matter, were tested to see whether they had traces of JB's blood on them. Obviously, whatever was used to wipe her would not only leave fibers on her, but would also have evidence of what was wiped- her blood.

DeeDee249,
I just wonder if JonBenet wore dark(blue) cotton size-6 underwear to the White's party, and it was this that was used to wipe her down?

JR's shirt fibers may simply represent a red-herring?


Was there a pair of Bloomingdales colored dark blue, sold as part of the Days-of-the-Week set?

 

[otg]

DeeDee249,
I just wonder if JonBenet wore dark(blue) cotton size-6 underwear to the White's party, and it was this that was used to wipe her down?

JR's shirt fibers may simply represent a red-herring?


Was there a pair of Bloomingdales colored dark blue, sold as part of the Days-of-the-Week set?

The Bloomies were white with different color prints. Here are similar packages of the same:

.

 

[txsvicki]

Thermal underwear are usually cotton as well as some sweats, and a boy's garment could be dark blue. Could it be possible that she was wiped with something like that or does it have to be terry cloth? I figure it was a brand new wash cloth because new towels always have lots of loose fuzz and fibers.

 

[UKGuy]

The Bloomies were white with different color prints. Here are similar packages of the same:

.

otg,
Thanks for that. I made mistake in asking the question, because I had the size-12's in mind.

I don't know what brand of underwear JonBenet wore to the White's. So possibly what she wore was dark(blue)?

Is this what underlies the near absence of information regarding JonBenet's underwear?

.

 

[DeeDee249]

I doubt JB wore dark blue undies. I know little girls' panties can be colorful, but I have rarely seen them in anything other than pastels or brights, prints, stripes, etc. Little boys can come in dark colors, but I have a hard time finding anything for my 2 little grandsons except Sponge Bob or some superhero types of undies.
I believe the bathrobe may have been used, but whatever it was, it was either destroyed that night (fireplace?) or removed from the home by the Rs when they left or hidden until Aunt P retrieved it.

 

[redheadedgal]

I doubt JB wore dark blue undies. I know little girls' panties can be colorful, but I have rarely seen them in anything other than pastels or brights, prints, stripes, etc.

i worked retail with a girls dept. for three years... never saw them in dark colors... usually white background with flowers, stripes or polka dots...

 

[midwest mama]

Found this info on a site and found it very interesting - so now wonder if BDI, would his immaturity account for lack of "the swimmers", and if JDI, does anyone know if he had gotten a Vas?

Anyway, here's the info: (Bolding an underline by me)

Initially, an ultraviolet light used by the examiner found the possibility of semen on her thighs which was later discerned to be incorrect (Katz, 2010). The discrepancy in findings can perhaps be attributed to a failure in locating acid phosphatase (an enzyme secreted into the seminal fluid) via an acid phosphatase test (Saferstein, 2009). In this test a damp piece of filter paper covered in sodium alpha naphthylphosphate would have been applied to JonBenet’s thigh, when removed the paper would have turned a purplish colour if there were in fact acid phosphatase present. However, if the culprit had a low spermatozoa count or no spermatozoa at all, this can be the reason why the test did not find any semen present (Saferstein, 2009).

This is the web address for the above info:
http://jonbenetramseycase.wikispaces.com/D.+Forensic+Techniques

Then, from www.wikianswers.com, this info:
Some boys can ejaculate very young, or for some it takes until around fourteen years old. Although it is uncommon, it is possible for a boy to begin ejaculating by the age of 9.

I recall that the detectives present at the autopsy said they thought some of the remnants remaining on JB's thighs might be semen, but that later tests showed it was not. But, maybe their visual opinion was right after all?

Yikes, this now adds back the possibility that Patsy did not act alone, doesn't it?

 

[otg]

Found this info on a site and found it very interesting - so now wonder if BDI, would his immaturity account for lack of "the swimmers", and if JDI, does anyone know if he had gotten a Vas?

Anyway, here's the info: (Bolding an underline by me)

Initially, an ultraviolet light used by the examiner found the possibility of semen on her thighs which was later discerned to be incorrect (Katz, 2010). The discrepancy in findings can perhaps be attributed to a failure in locating acid phosphatase (an enzyme secreted into the seminal fluid) via an acid phosphatase test (Saferstein, 2009). In this test a damp piece of filter paper covered in sodium alpha naphthylphosphate would have been applied to JonBenet’s thigh, when removed the paper would have turned a purplish colour if there were in fact acid phosphatase present. However, if the culprit had a low spermatozoa count or no spermatozoa at all, this can be the reason why the test did not find any semen present (Saferstein, 2009).

This is the web address for the above info:
http://jonbenetramseycase.wikispaces.com/D.+Forensic+Techniques

Then, from www.wikianswers.com, this info:
Some boys can ejaculate very young, or for some it takes until around fourteen years old. Although it is uncommon, it is possible for a boy to begin ejaculating by the age of 9.

I recall that the detectives present at the autopsy said they thought some of the remnants remaining on JB's thighs might be semen, but that later tests showed it was not. But, maybe their visual opinion was right after all?

Yikes, this now adds back the possibility that Patsy did not act alone, doesn't it?

I wouldn't put too much stock in what you read at that site, mw mm. Reading through some of the other pages, they seem to have other items of "misinformation".

The Acid Phosphatase test (just like the black light viewing) is a "presumptive" (or "preliminary") test as opposed to a "confirmatory" test. If either the black light or the Acid Phosphatase give a positive indication, a "confirmatory" test has to be done to verify it. Just like the black light will indicate other body fluids, so does the Acid Phosphatase.

The test for AP remains highly presumptive due to the fact that vaginal secretions and other bodily fluids contain detectable levels of this enzyme (Acid Phosphatase).

The above quote is from http://ncforensics.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/forensic-tests-for-semen-what-you-should-know/, where it also tells about the confirmatory tests for semen: Christmas Tree Stain, RSID-Semen Strip, and Prostate Specific Antigen Test.

More on how these tests are performed can be found here:
http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/0c6b24c3-af68-4efa-a0e7-17a55f1b1147/Body-Fluid-SOPs-Rev-O6.aspx

The confirmatory testing that was done on the indications seen with a black light on her legs proved it to be smeared, dried blood.
.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

i worked retail with a girls dept. for three years... never saw them in dark colors... usually white background with flowers, stripes or polka dots...

All the little girls I've potty trained wanted those big girl panties. It was a reward to get out of those training pants.

 

[anne11]

I never realised how small the wording was on the undies, makes it a little more unbelievable that an intruder would pause to choose the appropriate day

 

[DeeDee249]

I never realised how small the wording was on the undies, makes it a little more unbelievable that an intruder would pause to choose the appropriate day

Also- if you ever saw these panty gift sets, they are packed so the days of the week are in order inside the package. The "Wednesday" pair is in the MIDDLE of the pack. You have to remove three pairs to get to them. So it was a deliberate choice. The Rs had said that JB couldn't read yet- I believe it was in an interview where they spoke about Christmas morning, giving out the presents, etc. Christmas Day in 1996 WAS a Wednesday, so she didn't pick them out to wear herself.

 

[redheadedgal]

... The Rs had said that JB couldn't read yet-

so then HOW was jonbenet able to "read" an ad for the pageant as mentioned below to ask if she could be in one? :waitasec:

18 JOHN RAMSEY: According to
19 Patsy, she was, Patsy was Ms. West Virginia in
20 1977 and she was in the Miss America pageant and
21 periodically she would go back to West Virginia
22 to judge, it was a judge for the Ms. West
23 Virginia pageant and she took, they had a, it
24 must have been 20, 20th anniversary or something
25 like that, I don't know. Some anniversary, they

0447
1 invited her back to -- to be in the program I
2 think and she took JonBenet's and her mom went,
3 and she said JonBenet really enjoyed it, seeing
4 mom up on stage, and she found, apparently
5 JonBenet found a little advertisement in the <<<<<<< important section
6 paper for one of these little pageants, local
7 pageants.
8 MIKE KANE: Later she found it?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: I believe so,
10 JonBenet did. And asked, you know, how -- it
11 was something she wished she could do, or how do
12 we do this. I think that's how that got
13 started.
14 MIKE KANE: Was that a local
15 Boulder paper?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know, it
17 might have been Denver. It had to be a local
18 paper, but I am not sure which it was.


http://www.acandyrose.com/s-jonbenet-pageants.htm

 

[DeeDee249]

so then HOW was jonbenet able to "read" an ad for the pageant as mentioned below to ask if she could be in one? :waitasec:

18 JOHN RAMSEY: According to
19 Patsy, she was, Patsy was Ms. West Virginia in
20 1977 and she was in the Miss America pageant and
21 periodically she would go back to West Virginia
22 to judge, it was a judge for the Ms. West
23 Virginia pageant and she took, they had a, it
24 must have been 20, 20th anniversary or something
25 like that, I don't know. Some anniversary, they

0447
1 invited her back to -- to be in the program I
2 think and she took JonBenet's and her mom went,
3 and she said JonBenet really enjoyed it, seeing
4 mom up on stage, and she found, apparently
5 JonBenet found a little advertisement in the <<<<<<< important section
6 paper for one of these little pageants, local
7 pageants.
8 MIKE KANE: Later she found it?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: I believe so,
10 JonBenet did. And asked, you know, how -- it
11 was something she wished she could do, or how do
12 we do this. I think that's how that got
13 started.
14 MIKE KANE: Was that a local
15 Boulder paper?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know, it
17 might have been Denver. It had to be a local
18 paper, but I am not sure which it was.


http://www.acandyrose.com/s-jonbenet-pageants.htm

Doesn't mean she actually READ it. There could have been a photo or illustration of a little girl in a pageant tiara, etc. Keep in mind you cannot take what the Rs say as gospel. Most kids that age CANNOT actually read anything other than very beginner-type kids books. Doubtful she could read a newspaper. In other comments the Rs said she couldn't read the name tags on the Christmas presents that morning. So either she could read or she couldn't. I'd lean on the side of a 6-year old NOT reading. But it is an easy way of explaining why they chose to push their daughter into the pageants- "it was all her fault because she WANTED to do it"....
My mother was blind her whole life. I could "read" by the time I was 3. But it was more like her taking me grocery shopping, and holding up a can or box. She'd ask me what was in it, and there was always a picture of what was in the can or box- pancake mix, canned corn, etc. That's eventually how I learned to read. But you wouldn't call it "reading" at that early age.

 

[SapphireSteel]

My daughter began actually reading (signs in the supermarket) at about 2 years old. But she was advanced.

 

[UKGuy]

Also- if you ever saw these panty gift sets, they are packed so the days of the week are in order inside the package. The "Wednesday" pair is in the MIDDLE of the pack. You have to remove three pairs to get to them. So it was a deliberate choice. The Rs had said that JB couldn't read yet- I believe it was in an interview where they spoke about Christmas morning, giving out the presents, etc. Christmas Day in 1996 WAS a Wednesday, so she didn't pick them out to wear herself.

DeeDee249,
Patsy said she never noticed what underwear JonBenet dressed in on Christmas Day, after bathing.

The underwear lying on the bathroom floor might be what she was wearing when she was playing on her new bike, that afternoon?

So Patsy has to claim that the Wednesday choice was a random one, since as you state, JonBenet could not read.

Also the R's cannot claim to know when JonBenet was really killed, after all, they were sound asleep upstairs.

So its either the size-12's are intended to replace Wednesday day of the week underwear worn to the White's or they are pure staging intended to portray the illusion JonBenet was killed in the same clothes she worn to the White's.

Whenever the Ramsey case files are made public, one thing I'll be looking out for: is there a missing pair of Wednesday underwear?



.

 

[OpenMind4U]

DeeDee249,
Patsy said she never noticed what underwear JonBenet dressed in on Christmas Day, after bathing.
The underwear lying on the bathroom floor might be what she was wearing when she was playing on her new bike, that afternoon?

So Patsy has to claim that the Wednesday choice was a random one, since as you state, JonBenet could not read.

Also the R's cannot claim to know when JonBenet was really killed, after all, they were sound asleep upstairs.

So its either the size-12's are intended to replace Wednesday day of the week underwear worn to the White's or they are pure staging intended to portray the illusion JonBenet was killed in the same clothes she worn to the White's.

Whenever the Ramsey case files are made public, one thing I'll be looking out for: is there a missing pair of Wednesday underwear?



.

UKGuy, agree: 'pure staging intended to portray the illusion JonBenet was killed in the same clothes she worn to the White's.'

However, if I remember correctly, according to Patsy (based on Police Files), JBR does NOT have bath on Christmas Day! Patsy doesn't remember when JB had the bath last time.:banghead:

jmo