GUILTY WI - 12-Year-Old Girls Stab Friend 19 Times for Slenderman, Waukesha, 31 May 2014 #1

[Ausgirl]

I think leaders usually will commit violence without a follower, I just think it will look different. I think the leader in Columbine would have still been violent, I just don't think it would have looked the same. I think leaders often need someone to be a part of their game. They need others in their plot. The leader would probably be violent in some sense, but I wonder if it would be more reactive...rather than this twisted plot.

Incidentally, I've noticed in a lot of these pair murders...leaders also need someone to blame, or at least to minimize themselves.

A lot of killer duos, both child and adult, exhibit signs of a violent nature prior to meeting up with their partner in crime, but most only escalate to murder once that partnership is entrenched. Of course, there's exceptions (as there always are) but I'm talking a majority of cases I've looked at.

 

[Spice]

Wouldn't you say that it makes sense for a country to have more gun deaths, when it has more guns?

I agree with the points you are making. I just think it's important not to get hung up on guns. We have a culture that psychologically accepts and glorifies violence. Guns are a byproduct of that, and I don't think the main cause. (I'm not defending guns or trying to start that debate, I promise. lol!)

I agree wholeheartedly. This is GREAT article that speaks to your point exactly. The guns are a byproduct of our violent American culture. Henry Giroux has written some amazing sociological articles.

The grave reality is that violence saturates almost every aspect of North American culture. Domestically, violence weaves through the cultural and social landscape like a highly charged forest fire burning everything in its path. Popular culture, extending from Hollywood films and sports thuggery, to video games, embraces the spectacle of violence as the primary medium of entertainment. The real issue here is the existence of a pedagogy of violence that actually makes the power of deadly violence attractive.

It's not really about the guns, it's about looking at our American culture critically, and really seeing it and going from there and truly thinking about how this effects our children.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/12/americas-culture-of-violence.html

 

[appleeye]

Well we know they did not spend their days in the sunshine playing well with others..

What? When they did it, they were playing Hide and Seek in the woods. This proves that they played outside.

The fact that there were three of them that got along and were best friends proves that they could be friendly.

An otherwise normal seeming child screams sociopath to me.

There should be NOTHING wrong or seemingly wrong with a couple of girls headed out to play in the woods.

 

[MyBelle]

I think that violence is glorified, like nowhere else on earth. That really has nothing to do with laws. Laws are put in place as a response to culture. We have a violent culture, we need laws against it.

We do have regulatory agencies about violent entertainment. More laws aren't needed, more attentive parents are needed.

Parents have the ability to monitor and control the violent games, videos, television, movies, Internet their kids see. None of it is FREE, not the necessary equipment nor the content.

http://www.esrb.org/index-js.jsp

 

[blue22]

Well we know they did not spend their days in the sunshine playing well with others..

No we don't. We only know about that specific day. In fact, on that day the parents gave them permission to go to the park, and they attempted murder instead.
Whose to say the park isn't a normal thing they do? Their school has said they had no behavior issues and did well with others.

We literally only know what they did that day. We have no idea what was normal for them the rest of their lives.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

No we don't. We only know about that specific day. In fact, on that day the parents gave them permission to go to the park, and they attempted murder instead.
Whose to say the park isn't a normal thing they do?

We literally only know what they did that day. We have no idea what was normal for them the rest of their lives.

Oh my gosh..

Yes we do. These were not kids hanging out with other kids and playing well. These are kids obsessed with the slender dude and plotting a murder.

 

[blue22]

We do have regulatory agencies about violent entertainment. More laws aren't needed, more attentive parents are needed.

Parents have the ability to monitor and control the violent games, videos, television, movies, Internet their kids see. None of it is FREE, not the necessary equipment nor the content.

http://www.esrb.org/index-js.jsp

My response was to the theory we don't have a violent culture, because we have anti violence laws.

I was simply saying anti violence laws, do not prove we don't have a violent culture. I was not making any kind of statement on parenting.

 

[Cherry]

This is a classic case of folie a deux.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/folie+a+deux

 

[blue22]

Oh my gosh..

Yes we do. These were not kids hanging out with other kids and playing well. These are kids obsessed with the slender dude and plotting a murder.

We DON'T KNOW if they weren't hanging out with others. We DON'T KNOW if they weren't behaving well.

We have a girl in a hospital, and we have two attempted murderers. We have their statements, which say nothing about being friends with others, or not being friends with others. We have a school that says they were normal, well behaved students. That's all we got, which does not prove they weren't socializing in normal ways.

Seriously, point me to the information you have on their overall behavior in society. I'd love to see it.

 

[Nasteria]

Yes. Especially if it serves them in some way. They mimic the behaviors of others around them to appear normal. They do nothing that does serve their wants and desires, and can appear quite empathic, charming, and lovely when they need too. That is what makes them so freaking scary. They are even known to "fool" professional psychologists they are so adept at turning emotions on and off, mimicking, and masking. They are chameleons. I always feel freaked out when people say "I"m a chameleon", I fit any where. That always sets alarms off in my head because that means you can shift who you are to fit into the situation, believably and adeptly.

Is this directed towards the little girls who are in jail or towards all children?

 

[MyBelle]

They get internet access in schools, and on their phones. When we got my daughter an Iphone last year, I didn't know how bad Instagram was, I try to monitor it when I can, but she keeps her phone with her at school, or hides it, or password protects it, so I can't get on. She's gotten access online to books I didn't want her exposed to yet, like the Hunger Games, or her friends will lend her. Kids will find ways no matter how hard you try...
And my daughter doesn't go to the mall or anywhere by herself- I am a helicopter parent!

My kids' Internet access was restricted at school. Take your daughter's phone away if she's trying to hide it. A phone is a privilege, not an entitlement. Especially if she's only 12. There are predators on the Internet looking for young, impressionable girls. The father of one of my son's college roommates was convicted of soliciting a 14-year-old girl. He was actually soliciting a cop. The very public conviction of this man destroyed his career, his marriage and it emotionally shattered his only child. He dropped out of college and has turned to drugs. The man has since died and his adored son is adrift.

Worrying about your child's safety doesn't make you a helicopter parent, it makes you a responsible parent. There are some very dark minds out there and they don't always broadcast it to their friends or family.

JMO

 

[Nasteria]

It does? Because for me that infers to euthanize them like an animal. There is nothing humanizing or compassionate in that statement when directed at 12 year old children.

Although the girls who stabbed the victim are twelve year old children. Are you saying the attackers should go unpunished? (I may be lost here.)

 

[Ausgirl]

Rather than helicoptering I took the approach of teaching her 'survival skills' on the net. How to spot a pedo (she turned this into a sort of 'game' and taught it to her friends, so they'd run off to their parents 'Mum, I found a pedo!' That made for some interesting phone calls, but at least they knew one when they saw one). How to deal with things that make her nervous/unsure/angry/scared. When to walk away. Lots of things, over time, and I found that rather than being sneaky with her net habits, she was actually -much- more interactive and open with me about her internet experiences.

The hardest thing to monitor is chat programs, and those are the worst for creeps and trolls. I let her have unsupervised chat now, because she's 15 and I trust her. She still runs to me when she 'spots a pedo', and we've reported quite a few.

But I think it also depends on the child - mine's pretty canny about people, and isn't easily disturbed by things. I think if I had a much more delicate and vulnerable sort of child, I'd have found it a better option to impose stricter limits.

 

[LinasK]

My kids' Internet access was restricted at school. Take your daughter's phone away if she's trying to hide it. A phone is a privilege, not an entitlement. Especially if she's only 12. There are predators on the Internet looking for young, impressionable girls. The father of one of my son's college roommates was convicted of soliciting a 14-year-old girl. He was actually soliciting a cop. The very public conviction of this man destroyed his career, his marriage and it emotionally shattered his only child. He dropped out of college and has turned to drugs. The man has since died and his adored son is adrift.

Worrying about your child's safety doesn't make you a helicopter parent, it makes you a responsible parent. There are some very dark minds out there and they don't always broadcast it to their friends or family.

JMO

I'm well aware of it, she recently turned 13, so I'm dealing with teenage attitude now. I've never allowed her to participate in chat rooms, not even Webkinz ones. She deleted her KiK account since I was monitoring it. Most of her texting is harmless teenage stuff, and I know what boys she's interested in.
She also doesn't have a Facebook account, which some of her friends already do, but she does use our laptops for homework assignments...

 

[LinasK]

Rather than helicoptering I took the approach of teaching her 'survival skills' on the net. How to spot a pedo (she turned this into a sort of 'game' and taught it to her friends, so they'd run off to their parents 'Mum, I found a pedo!' That made for some interesting phone calls, but at least they knew one when they saw one). How to deal with things that make her nervous/unsure/angry/scared. When to walk away. Lots of things, over time, and I found that rather than being sneaky with her net habits, she was actually -much- more interactive and open with me about her internet experiences.

The hardest thing to monitor is chat programs, and those are the worst for creeps and trolls. I let her have unsupervised chat now, because she's 15 and I trust her. She still runs to me when she 'spots a pedo', and we've reported quite a few.

But I think it also depends on the child - mine's pretty canny about people, and isn't easily disturbed by things. I think if I had a much more delicate and vulnerable sort of child, I'd have found it a better option to impose stricter limits.

So, how do you "spot a pedo" online??? Do tell...

 

[blue22]

My kids' Internet access was restricted at school. Take your daughter's phone away if she's trying to hide it. A phone is a privilege, not an entitlement. Especially if she's only 12. There are predators on the Internet looking for young, impressionable girls. The father of one of my son's college roommates was convicted of soliciting a 14-year-old girl. He was actually soliciting a cop. The very public conviction of this man destroyed his career, his marriage and it emotionally shattered his only child. He dropped out of college and has turned to drugs. The man has since died and his adored son is adrift.

Worrying about your child's safety doesn't make you a helicopter parent, it makes you a responsible parent. There are some very dark minds out there and they don't always broadcast it to their friends or family.

JMO

My niece's school implemented tablets and smartphones at their school. They were allowed to use them. The teachers have called for this to be modifief. The kids were getting around the securities in place, and the teachers were finding it impossible to monitor usage. They are reviewing this program for next year.

Look at teens and their social networking sites. Look how many of their posts happen during the day at school. I agree that you can take a child's phone away. However, you can't take their friend's phone away. You can't take their friend's computer away. You can't sweep every house and activity they go to. You can't take away the devices at school. Every time a child is at someone's house or anywhere in public without you, there is the potential to spend time on the internet.

 

[MyBelle]

My response was to the theory we don't have a violent culture, because we have anti violence laws.

I was simply saying anti violence laws, do not prove we don't have a violent culture. I was not making any kind of statement on parenting.

America doesn't have a singular, violent culture. Culture encompasses many things. I wasn't raised in a culture that accepts mutilation of a girl's genitals or a culture that accepts domestic violence to a wife. Some people were raised in such cultures. America consider both to be crimes.

JMO

 

[Nasteria]

Wow. This is a study in itself. It's interesting how many of us who are very drawn to sociology/psychology/knowtheDSM feel inclined to try to figure out what is going on with these girls, what caused this horrific act, how it can be prevented.

I guess that's not that interesting at all. It's intuitive that those who are interested in sociology and psychology would also be more interested in discussing the whys and hows [modsnip]

Interesting forum, as always.

What is DSM?
thanks

 

[LinasK]

Although the girls who stabbed the victim are twelve year old children. Are you saying the attackers should go unpunished? (I may be lost here.)

I think she's referring to the poster (not here at the moment) who said we wanted to "put these girls down". To me that phrase means euthansia/death. Not appropriate here, but society needs to be kept safe from these girls for a very long time.

 

[LinasK]

What is DSM?
thanks

It's a medical manual of diagnostic codes, often used in medical billing.