GUILTY WI - 12-Year-Old Girls Stab Friend 19 Times for Slenderman, Waukesha, 31 May 2014 #2

[ICS]

...both the song lyrics and the one comment. Note channel owner and comment poster. Given the very few hits, not sure many people have noticed it.

When the video comes up, click on the "YouTube" button to watch it on YouTube (as opposed to an embedded video).

Fire Fire (Flyleaf)

 

[Spice]

MG did not invent this phrase.

It appears widely in a number of other contexts on the Internet, all of which predate the attack, going back to at least 2008. Googling it gets thousands of hits, only a few of which are connected with the case.

It's used in two broad ways:

- to denote either gameplay (where "Stabby" and "Stab" are both moves a user can make, similar to "jump" and "dodge")

- in the context of "comedy violence" involving sharp objects of any kind, especially in cartoons. (I will say that some of these cartoons are NOT akin to Tom and Jerry)

It's even been used as the title of a short film that won a Georgia film festival and the title of a song by band The Divorce.

The way it's used in MG's statement makes me wonder if rather than being callous, she simply thinks the stabbing wasn't real, and invoked a phrase that she'd heard to describe stabbing in a non-real context.

Just a thought.

I find this so interesting...and that is exactly what crossed my mind after reading your post about "stabby stab stab".

 

[ICS]

I can just about talk myself into the idea of hypnosis influencing one or both of the suspects.

1. The alleged lack of red flags about the girls' prior behavior
2. Their apparent ability to function normally even as the event approached
3. MG's seeming lack of clear remembrance of the event
4. Certain information that did not seem to originate from their own knowledge (e.g. location of Slenderman mansion in Nicolet forest)
5. Contrary to news reports, the subject of becoming a proxy and killing someone arose at the same time as naming the victim (from AW's statement)
6. There is evidence of internal struggles when it came to actually carrying out the plan
7. AW said it "felt" like they had to physically kill someone. MG said "It seemed necessary"
8. AW talked about the "good" and the "bad" part of me, MG found it "weird" she didn't feel remorse
9. MG said "I'm not going to do it until you tell me"
10. AW said "Kitty, now", MG responded "Don't worry about me, I'm just a little kitty cat"

It seems likely they might be susceptible to hypnosis. The belief in the existence of Slenderman would have them half way there.

The hypnotist could have been one of the two, a local third party or even a remote party using video chat.

Said it was a silly idea, but this is such a bizarre event... who knows?

 

[Spice]

http://www.people.com/article/slender-man-stabbing-victim-girl-message-thanks-photo

A photo of the victim (does not include her face) surrounded by all of the purple hearts she received from the public after the stabbing. She is holding a sign that says "Thank You".

 

[Ausgirl]

Ah, poor child! It's so good to see her recovering, and with so much support.

ICS, I dunno about 'hypnosis'. Maybe a kind of shared hysteria... It's entirely possible these kids worked themselves up into a state of actually believing the Slenderman stuff. I fully believe they had ill intentions toward PL, and that would be a good motive, fully intentional or not, to embrace that delusion as fully as they claim to.

Here's a personal (more than a little embarassing, heh) and very much lesser example of what I mean:

I am a horror fan, all my life. I am not easily scared. And I *love* The Walking Dead, huge fan. I am a rational person, a little neurotic here and there but quite sane thank you very much.

So -- one night, very late, all alone, I am watching a particularly creepy episode of the Walking Dead. There's a storm outside, there's shadows moving, lots of creepy noises. Scrapes on the window. The wind here has a strange howling sound, it really is eery at the best of times..

Anyway. I KNOW zombies ain't real. Like -- I know this. The end. They just are not. This is a cold hard fact I am well aware of. So now this is established:

I paused the show, got up, checked all doors and windows were locked. Had a rush of anxiety over the flimsiness of window glass. My heart was racing. And I am thinking: "Oh girl, you have lost the plot..." But I checked all locks anyway (and dark corners and empty rooms, you know, just in case..), to make myself feel better. My questions is -- WHY.

I felt like a right nit the next morning. But that question stuck with me - WHY was I so scared? When I am so very aware this is just fiction? And I'd watched it plenty of times before without checking my locks!

And the answer is -- because it was late and dark, and there were scary noises and shadows out, and I was *wrapped up in the story*. And the imagery, which was nasty too. Combined, it all tripped some wire in me or other, and made me genuinely afraid. :facepalm:

So translating this to the girls here, combine that kind of suspended disbelief, magnified by two, magnified again by childish minds which are by nature way more susceptible to suggestion, magnified again by the enforced pretense of reality and weird fan fiction sites, etc - and yep, I do think they could have made themselves so hysterical (in the proper sense of the word, I don't mean yelling and screaming..) that they felt compelled to kill their friend.

But I have no doubt a part of them *knew* it wasn't real.

 

[Ausgirl]

I must add, I also have a powerful feeling that it was AW who was the primary motivator for this crime. No matter what MG's diagnosis may be, I think it was AW who pushed them both forward into attempting murder.

I'm just calling it a 'feeling' for now, though it's not without reason.

 

[ICS]

I must add, I also have a powerful feeling that it was AW who was the primary motivator for this crime. No matter what MG's diagnosis may be, I think it was AW who pushed them both forward into attempting murder.

I agree with that feeling. I think that one of them really expected to "see Slenderman"...

There is clearly (IMO) a back story over and above mental illness and delusional belief in Slenderman. Probably about wanting an exclusive friendship.

 

[ICS]

But I have no doubt a part of them *knew* it wasn't real.

Agree. I think they were right on the threshold of sufficient belief/justification to carry out their awful plan. I think they let the plan take on a life of its own which allowed them to abdicate responsibility.

It was interesting that MG told AW she wouldn't do it until AW told her too. At that point, AW and MG were already in deep doo-doo, even if they had canceled the plan and let PL go.

I still think that PL knew *something* was going to happen, but obviously NOT what did happen. That's why she didn't run off when she apparently could/should have done, and the reason for "...I trusted you!"

 

[al66pine]

Ah, poor child! It's so good to see her recovering, and with so much support.

ICS, I dunno about 'hypnosis'. Maybe a kind of shared hysteria... It's entirely possible these kids worked themselves up into a state of actually believing the Slenderman stuff. I fully believe they had ill intentions toward PL, and that would be a good motive, fully intentional or not, to embrace that delusion as fully as they claim to.

Here's a personal (more than a little embarassing, heh) and very much lesser example of what I mean:

I am a horror fan, all my life. I am not easily scared. And I *love* The Walking Dead, huge fan. I am a rational person, a little neurotic here and there but quite sane thank you very much.

So -- one night, very late, all alone, I am watching a particularly creepy episode of the Walking Dead. There's a storm outside, there's shadows moving, lots of creepy noises. Scrapes on the window. The wind here has a strange howling sound, it really is eery at the best of times..

Anyway. I KNOW zombies ain't real. Like -- I know this. The end. They just are not. This is a cold hard fact I am well aware of. So now this is established:

I paused the show, got up, checked all doors and windows were locked. Had a rush of anxiety over the flimsiness of window glass. My heart was racing. And I am thinking: "Oh girl, you have lost the plot..." But I checked all locks anyway (and dark corners and empty rooms, you know, just in case..), to make myself feel better. My questions is -- WHY.

I felt like a right nit the next morning. But that question stuck with me - WHY was I so scared? When I am so very aware this is just fiction? And I'd watched it plenty of times before without checking my locks!

And the answer is -- because it was late and dark, and there were scary noises and shadows out, and I was *wrapped up in the story*. And the imagery, which was nasty too. Combined, it all tripped some wire in me or other, and made me genuinely afraid. :facepalm:

So translating this to the girls here, combine that kind of suspended disbelief, magnified by two, magnified again by childish minds which are by nature way more susceptible to suggestion, magnified again by the enforced pretense of reality and weird fan fiction sites, etc - and yep, I do think they could have made themselves so hysterical (in the proper sense of the word, I don't mean yelling and screaming..) that they felt compelled to kill their friend.

But I have no doubt a part of them *knew* it wasn't real.

Yes, knowing the show was not real, you took actions to double check your security.
When all wrapped up in the show, you did not plan to kill someone and did not take steps to execute the plan, nearly ending in a death.

Big diff, imo.:seeya:

 

[Ausgirl]

Yes, knowing the show was not real, you took actions to double check your security.
When all wrapped up in the show, you did not plan to kill someone and did not take steps to execute the plan, nearly ending in a death.

Big diff, imo.:seeya:

Yes -- which is why I said "very much lesser example".

It was also a one-off event, not a sustained chain of events, and I did not have another person nor a slew of 'alternate reality' websites contributing to my fearful thinking. Oh yeah - and I'm not 12.

If you read my post more carefully, you'll see how that "very much lesser" example of mine led to the idea of various factors (which we know exist and of which I have given examples) may have in this case conflated together to perhaps contribute to a kind hysteria that allowed them to act out on something they otherwise may not have.

Maybe. It's just a theory. But one which makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[ICS]

Events like this are terrifying and traumatizing. None of the "usual" markers *seem* to apparent, although that isn't stopping people assigning blame to the parents, Internet, goth culture, lack of plain decency and just being, well... bad kids.

Without knowing ALL OF THE OTHER FACTORS that conspired to strip away the frighteningly thin veneer of civilization we have, generalizations aren't helpful. But I suppose its human nature: If you DON'T know what made someone do something so awful, how do you know it won't happen again... and who the perpetrators and victim could be? Could it be MY kid?

I'm betting there isn't a nice, simple, satisfying answer. I hope jury and judge won't try to assign one anyway. I'd guess the situation had many contributing factors, none of which alone is a "smoking gun":

- Isolation, loneliness, desire to escape
- Lack of parental knowledge of contemporary kid culture and use of social media. (I've learned *a lot* since this happened)
- Trying to adjust to new friendships, loss or weakening of old ones
- Bullying (including cyber-bullying)
- The onset of mental illness
- Missed "red flags" (I just can't believe there weren't any). Out of context, they may not have been troubling
- Largely unfettered access to the Internet, including sites that kids truly have no business accessing
- The pervasive and immersive nature of the Creepy Pasta genre (it's not just these kids that think Slenderman is real or just aren't sure)
- The other stuff we may never hear of because the identity of the witnesses and their testimony will not be made public

 

[Sonya610]

Omegle is a chat site you can use with no registration and the purpose is to chat with random strangers. Just what all parents would want their kids doing, obviously...:scared:

Well if I had kids I wouldn't want them doing it but...it sounds darn fun!

(ETA....actually no...it is boring...which is why the kids/folks viewing video of a "random stranger" were freaked out by the "Slender Man")

And yeah if I had kids I sure as heck wouldn't want them connecting to that site or watching videos there.

 

[ICS]

AW interests

I managed to find AW's Google+ and YouTube accounts.

This is a link to the "Posts" page on the Google+ account. When you create a Google+ account, a YouTube account with the same name is also created. If you like a video on YouTube, the link to the video and your like comment shows up on the related Google+ account under "Posts".

Here is the "Posts" page for AW's Google+ account:

https://plus.google.com/114281595290875375018/posts

The time span is from 11/14/13 to 5/24/14, only 6 days before the stabbing. The comments from AW indicate her to be smart, articulate and literate. There is really no indication of what was to follow 1 week after the last post.

The first reference to CreepyPastas does not occur until 1/15/14, when a video entitled "Top 10 CreepyPastas" is liked. Subsequent likes of CreepyPasta-related videos are not frequent, and many of them are spoofs such as "The Daily Life of Slenderman".

The "ordinariness" of the videos liked shows no apparent unhealthy *obsession* with Slender Man . They are perhaps a bit "nerdy" compared with her peers, but that is all.

Becoming a proxy

I looked for questions from users asking about how to become a Slender Man proxy. On the following page I found a question from a user called "hopelesspyromaniac":

http://slenderman.realityboard.net/t421-stages-of-becoming-a-proxy

The question is:

What would one do if one....wanted to be a Proxy?

.

This is the user's only activity on the forum. The join date is the same as the post date, suggesting the account was created just to pose this question.

I googled the user name "hopelesspyromaniac". The search turned up just one other account with the same name on Tumblr:

http://hopelesspyromaniac.tumblr.com/

The owner of this account is the older sister of AW. On the right hand side of the page is a list of other tumblrs being followed by her. Many of these are related to CreepyPastas and horror. The number of them indicate an interest that seems much more intense than that of AW.


So, 2 interesting things:

1. I found that question regarding becoming a proxy apparently traceable back to the sister of AW. Why would she go to the trouble of apparently creating an account just to ask this one question? What was the information to be used for?

2. Not long afterward, AW likes her first CreepyPasta video, and then a number of others. This may be coincidental, but it is an odd coincidence

 

[Ausgirl]

ICS - that's some great sleuthing there, I have to say!

Weird about the question etc.. I will put some thought to that when not severely sleep deprived. One observation - the page with the list on it (and the January post in question) is pretty full-on ARE stuff.

Notice how many 'psychopath' and 'sociopath' tests are on that youtube list..

 

[ICS]

I DID notice the various psychopath tests, although they seemed to be a very well known one (which may not even be a real test). I did think the following comments were most unfortunate:

- "Officer cuff me - I got the right answer" (psychopath test)
- "They're coming to take me away, HA HAAA!!" (sanity test)

... although most were pretty ordinary. She is either using a spelling/grammar checker or is just unusually literate (for a 12 year old), particularly when compared with her peers' use of Internet slang and abbreviations.

The lack of obvious obsession (on Google+, YouTube, Vine accounts at least), and "normal" posts immediately before the event give no hint at what was to come.

Did she *really* believe that the killing was going to actually happen, or did she think it was part of a macabre game? Her actual involvement in the event won't be known until PLs testimony comes to light. Speaking of whom, I still think that PL was aware of some "plan", but believed it was one that would not *actually* cause her harm.

I still find the tone and apparent glibness of AW's brother peculiar. It just didn't have the shock and disbelief that one would expect after discovering your little sister had done such a thing. And as we now know that both siblings knew about Slender Man and one had inquired about becoming a proxy, it does seem like there may have been some as-yet unseen factor that helped to move the suspects down that dreadful path to 5/31.

 

[ICS]

There is a piece of the Slender Man mythos that is not immediately obvious. It accounts for the belief in something that is "obviously" made up. I thought at first it was just kids being "in character" with the genre, but it goes beyond that. Many of them REALLY do believe in Slender Man, think they have seen him and are certainly having nightmares about him. It is having a real impact on their lives.

Kids do know that Slender Man was made up in 2009. However, the mythos discusses the notion that Slender Man is a "Tulpa":Tulpa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Briefly, a Tulpa is a demon that can be brought into "existence" through belief. If people believe in it, then it is real. If you think about it, this is how every god, demon or other entity gained existence and acceptance. It doesn't matter that you cannot prove or disprove the existence of, say, Slender Man, in exactly the same way that you cannot prove or disprove the existence of (any) God. For those that believe, the Tulpa becomes "real". All that is required is a "seed", a picture and/or stories to which belief can be anchored and expanded upon.

I think this is an incredibly important aspect of Slender Man that has simply been overlooked (or ignored) by the media and the public. It goes long way to explain how someone susceptible could set aside common reason and do something as dreadful as attempting to sacrifice a friend. By "someone susceptible", I'm thinking about mental illness, loneliness, isolation, someone that has an important part of their life missing or damaged.

My fear is that the part that Slender Man has played in this affair will be simply dismissed, the girls will wind up in prison for the rest of their lives, and they won't get the psychiatric treatment they need. In the meantime, something like this will happen again, perhaps without the great good fortune of the victim surviving.

The following is a very interesting read about how Slender Man came about and evolved.

http://darklore.dailygrail.com/samples/DL6-IV.pdf

 

[mrsobrien]

This is a fascinating thing to ponder, thought being creative... I think it can be applied to any "supernatural" figments, including all religious deities, boogeymen, tooth fairy,or bigfoot. I recall a song lyric, "if it's real to me, do I have to prove it to you?".
Aye....I feel sad for the kids that truly believe and are affected. :-(

There is a piece of the Slender Man mythos that is not immediately obvious. It accounts for the belief in something that is "obviously" made up. I thought at first it was just kids being "in character" with the genre, but it goes beyond that. Many of them REALLY do believe in Slender Man, think they have seen him and are certainly having nightmares about him. It is having a real impact on their lives.

Kids do know that Slender Man was made up in 2009. However, the mythos discusses the notion that Slender Man is a "Tulpa":Tulpa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Briefly, a Tulpa is a demon that can be brought into "existence" through belief. If people believe in it, then it is real. If you think about it, this is how every god, demon or other entity gained existence and acceptance. It doesn't matter that you cannot prove or disprove the existence of, say, Slender Man, in exactly the same way that you cannot prove or disprove the existence of (any) God. For those that believe, the Tulpa becomes "real". All that is required is a "seed", a picture and/or stories to which belief can be anchored and expanded upon.

I think this is an incredibly important aspect of Slender Man that has simply been overlooked (or ignored) by the media and the public. It goes long way to explain how someone susceptible could set aside common reason and do something as dreadful as attempting to sacrifice a friend. By "someone susceptible", I'm thinking about mental illness, loneliness, isolation, someone that has an important part of their life missing or damaged.

My fear is that the part that Slender Man has played in this affair will be simply dismissed, the girls will wind up in prison for the rest of their lives, and they won't get the psychiatric treatment they need. In the meantime, something like this will happen again, perhaps without the great good fortune of the victim surviving.

The following is a very interesting read about how Slender Man came about and evolved.

http://darklore.dailygrail.com/samples/DL6-IV.pdf

 

[ICS]

The court meets at 8.30 tomorrow to hear a motion from both defense attorneys who want to see the State's evidence prior to the Preliminary Hearing and Reverse Waiver hearing (which determines jurisdiction, criminal (adult) or juvenile court).

The way it works is that the only facts that can be argued are those listed on the criminal complaint, which as we have read, is contradictory and is missing a lot of context. The defense attorneys obviously want the State's evidence before the hearing. I would imagine testimony from PL would be crucial in establishing what exactly they were doing in the park and woods, and any background she gave regarding MG's mental state.

I believe that there is a precedent for this involving a juvenile intentional homicide trial some years ago.

AW's attorney has filed a request to waive AW's need to appear at this hearing.

On MG's side, the State is pushing to get on with the Preliminary and Reverse Waiver hearings "irrespective of the Competency filed by [MG's attorney]"

Later that day, the forensic psychiatrist filed more information regarding MG. As he'd already filed his report some time ago, I'm not sure if this information is to clarify competency or show findings of mental illness (these are two separate processes). Guess we'll find out more tomorrow.

I imagine the State will attempt to prove that the whole Slender Man thing was a cover story for some far more mundane motive.

I imagine the defense will attempt to prove that the "premeditation" conversations were, in fact, a macabre childish game without any actual intent to follow through. This could make a huge difference in the outcome. The girls' planning, such as it was, really didn't amount to much more than could have been done in an hour, and this was crazy stuff anyway. I think the fact that they did in fact appear to be on the way to "Slender Man's Mansion" may help show that this was not a logical plan made by people who were thinking rationally.

At the end of the day, what they wound up doing was beyond appalling. I've tried to place myself at the scene to imagine the horror of it, but my mind won't go there. We need to know what drove them to do this, rather than just "treating the symptoms" by incarcerating them forever.

Ironically, the girls have succeeded in their goal of "making Slender Man appear". From a relatively unknown story, he is now known around the world, getting attention from thousands - maybe millions - of people.

 

[Ausgirl]

It's hard to gather concrete facts from scraps of online activity.. But what I think you've found, ICS, with that one-question forum post and other stuff, is proof that AW's big sister was far more deeply into the whole Slenderman mythos. and on a far more 'adult' level than AW herself.

Expression of dark this and that, as we've already discussed, mean very little when someone's a fan of horror, it's part and parcel of the fandom and for 99% of people, just a bit of creative fun. But compare the two sets of 'footprints' and there's a HUGE difference between them isn't there? In terms of tone, enjoyment of violent content, etc.

So I'm thinking big sis was, likely unwittingly, a part of the overall confluence of events. It seems to me she's the one who had the bigger obsession with HYBRID style ARG's (the full-on ones, promoting Slenderman as real).

I agree with you, understanding WHY is super important.. Not even the specific influences involved, but how they came together to tip these girls off the edge into trying to murder their friend..

It worries me, that in the process of both sides of the law trying to present a winning case, some of that will fall through the cracks or get disregarded. This is the type of info desperately needed as the kids *born into* the internet age move into adulthood.

 

[Ausgirl]

Completely off-topic, sorry, but perhaps of interest to some.... I have a little experience with the concept of the tulpa.

Many years ago now, I had a gathering of friends in my living room, and we somehow got around to discussing the idea of the tulpa - and then went about trying to create one (or, more properly, a simple thought form, as 'tulpa' to us implied some of sort of vestigal sentience...and we were dumb kids, but not *that* dumb..). ANYway. We 'created' a very basic ball of energy in the middle of the room. It was quite fun, and we weren't really that invested in believing any of us had the wherewithal to actually create anything substantial.

Then my flatmate barged into the room to retrieve something of his.. walked right through the spot where we'd made the 'ball' -- stopped a step or two beyond it, shuddered and looked around at us like a cat stuck in a roomful of dogs. "The hell are you people *doing* in here?!" He apparently felt himself passing through 'something' that made him feel momentarily quite uncomfortable.

Which set us off on massive speculations regarding the origins of some of those very well-recorded instances of poltergeist activity, lalala. As well as particle theory and all sorts..

Spooky lot, we were.

Back on topic --- the addition of the tulpa idea to the whole Slenderman mythos does give it legs as far as plausibility goes, in that anything stemming from venerable and 'mysterious' cultures gives cred to a lot of suspended disbelief in horror (which some might take too far -- once more, I point out that there are *many* people in the world who actually believe the Necronomicon is a real book, written by a real 'mad arab'). In Slenderman's case, it's a genius way to bypass the whole 'it was made up for a website competition' thing.