Identified! WI - Delafield, WhtMale, UP7632, car stolen, lighter, Sep'77 - John Lindberg Scott
- Thread starter Zanko
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I wonder how much money it costs to exhume a body from the grave. I am guessing that the county does not have enough money at the time to exhume his body. Maybe we can all get together and chip in. What do you all think? If they extract his DNA, they may hit a match.
His next up to be exhumed, not sure when exactly they plan on doing it. Waukesha County is taking a 1976 case first; I believe it is the case where they found bones near the local cemetery where incidentally this Doe is buried. Jessie Ray Cooley, being a convict, should have prints on file and JD's card is on file too. I'm not 100% sold on it being him, but something about Jessie Ray that seems familiar.
carbuff
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Long time Cubby! Hope you're doing well ��...
I see what you're saying... Yeah they don't look identical
Good point, it has been a fair amount of time. Didn't realize how long its been since that report came out...hmmmm I don't know what the hold up is. Knowing that area well I would say it's political, as usual.
Great sleuthing on this case, everyone.
I know the Chicago address has been researched previously, but just thought I'd add (even though I'm not sure it's useful):
Koch Poultry (started by Fred Koch in 1973)
can be found with the 2860 N LINCOLN AVE address (as well as W. Berteau Ave location)
And, I believe there is a "Laurielle" in the family (although quite a bit older than our UID).
http://www.salespider.com/bn-280359766/800-837-2778
Also, the Norwegian Lutheran Church (Minnekirken in Norwegian) is located at 2614 N. Kedzie Boulevard in an area known as Logan Square. At one time, Logan Square boasted a large Norwegian-American population.
Slavic ? Scandinavian ? Norwegian ? neighborhood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnekirken
The front partial dental plate... could he have been a boxer?
I know the Chicago address has been researched previously, but just thought I'd add (even though I'm not sure it's useful):
Koch Poultry (started by Fred Koch in 1973)
can be found with the 2860 N LINCOLN AVE address (as well as W. Berteau Ave location)
And, I believe there is a "Laurielle" in the family (although quite a bit older than our UID).
http://www.salespider.com/bn-280359766/800-837-2778
Also, the Norwegian Lutheran Church (Minnekirken in Norwegian) is located at 2614 N. Kedzie Boulevard in an area known as Logan Square. At one time, Logan Square boasted a large Norwegian-American population.
Slavic ? Scandinavian ? Norwegian ? neighborhood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnekirken
The front partial dental plate... could he have been a boxer?
The Minnekirken connection is an intriguing possibility. I'm half Norwegian and my mom is a "pure bred"....I agree that the doe has a Scandinavian look. My mom thinks the doe looks a lot like a cousin of mine and one of her great uncles. I'll have to dig for info on the church and see if anything pops up online from the 70's.
luckyseven
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This case is amazing. I spent a few hours last night reading through the entire thread. Kudos to all of you for your great work. I feel like this is really solvable, but there's a key piece of info missing somewhere. I am also somewhat familiar with this area, as my closest friend grew up in Wheaton. After reading all of this, there are some ideas that stand out to me. Maybe some fresh eyes would help.
1. I think, as was mentioned previously, that John definitely did not intend to steal the car right off the bat. Like most have said, he was likely in a hurry somewhere and saw the opportunity to grab this car, as it was an older model and would have been easier to hotwire. Maybe he was going somewhere that wasn't too far away and intended to ride the bike all the way there, but then decided to ditch it for the car when the opportunity arose. I really cannot imagine a scenario in which someone would ride a bike to a car in order to steal it, and somehow obtain bags of womens' clothing along the way. Maybe he was biking to a friend's house or something and then he grabbed the car instead when (for some reason) he realized he would have to go further or move more quickly than intended.
2. Also, considering he had all of these scraps of paper with addresses and numbers on them, I would guess that he had to have been somewhere where he could have collected all that information. I mean, maybe he sat at the library with a phone book and jotted down the numbers. Maybe he went to an employment office and they helped him get some addresses. Maybe he called 411 or some other phone operator and recorded the info. I'm a child of the '00s, so I am really guessing on what options were available. I mean, if I were going to a city to look for a job or something I would sit at my computer and google a bunch of addresses and then write them down. What was the 1970s equivalent to that?
3. I'm very curious about something the Chicago PD said: "it was also feared that families were too ashamed to come forward, realizing they had a gay son." As far as I can see, this hasn't been addressed. I can't see how there is any indiction whatsoever that John Doe was a homosexual. The way the PO worded that sentence makes it sound like something within the case shows that John was gay, and therefore his parents might not want to claim him upon realizing that. Perhaps I've missed something, or maybe there is a key piece of info that we don't have? The idea that he was gay did not cross my mind for a moment, but maybe the earlier detectives were following a lead that indicated otherwise. Maybe it is based off of his eccentric clothing (fur collar, loud patterns).
4. As I've said, I went through and read this thread from page one right on to the end. One of my initial thoughts that the officer could have been involved. Once I got to the bit about the warning to back off because of the CIA and whatnot I thought that, at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, there could be some truth to that and we shouldn't brush it off. Think about it - this is a lone officer on a dark, foggy night pursuing a suspect that is fleeing from him. When the car overturned, it sounds like this officer pulled up and just went traipsing through the woods. I feel like a cop would be hesitant to approach the wreck alone. For all he knew, the suspect could have made it out and been hiding behind a tree waiting to ambush him. I guess I don't know just how bad the wreck looked initially, maybe he could tell right away that JD was definitely not making it out.
Just some thoughts.
1. I think, as was mentioned previously, that John definitely did not intend to steal the car right off the bat. Like most have said, he was likely in a hurry somewhere and saw the opportunity to grab this car, as it was an older model and would have been easier to hotwire. Maybe he was going somewhere that wasn't too far away and intended to ride the bike all the way there, but then decided to ditch it for the car when the opportunity arose. I really cannot imagine a scenario in which someone would ride a bike to a car in order to steal it, and somehow obtain bags of womens' clothing along the way. Maybe he was biking to a friend's house or something and then he grabbed the car instead when (for some reason) he realized he would have to go further or move more quickly than intended.
2. Also, considering he had all of these scraps of paper with addresses and numbers on them, I would guess that he had to have been somewhere where he could have collected all that information. I mean, maybe he sat at the library with a phone book and jotted down the numbers. Maybe he went to an employment office and they helped him get some addresses. Maybe he called 411 or some other phone operator and recorded the info. I'm a child of the '00s, so I am really guessing on what options were available. I mean, if I were going to a city to look for a job or something I would sit at my computer and google a bunch of addresses and then write them down. What was the 1970s equivalent to that?
3. I'm very curious about something the Chicago PD said: "it was also feared that families were too ashamed to come forward, realizing they had a gay son." As far as I can see, this hasn't been addressed. I can't see how there is any indiction whatsoever that John Doe was a homosexual. The way the PO worded that sentence makes it sound like something within the case shows that John was gay, and therefore his parents might not want to claim him upon realizing that. Perhaps I've missed something, or maybe there is a key piece of info that we don't have? The idea that he was gay did not cross my mind for a moment, but maybe the earlier detectives were following a lead that indicated otherwise. Maybe it is based off of his eccentric clothing (fur collar, loud patterns).
4. As I've said, I went through and read this thread from page one right on to the end. One of my initial thoughts that the officer could have been involved. Once I got to the bit about the warning to back off because of the CIA and whatnot I thought that, at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, there could be some truth to that and we shouldn't brush it off. Think about it - this is a lone officer on a dark, foggy night pursuing a suspect that is fleeing from him. When the car overturned, it sounds like this officer pulled up and just went traipsing through the woods. I feel like a cop would be hesitant to approach the wreck alone. For all he knew, the suspect could have made it out and been hiding behind a tree waiting to ambush him. I guess I don't know just how bad the wreck looked initially, maybe he could tell right away that JD was definitely not making it out.
Just some thoughts.
Love the post! Too be honest you pose many questions that I want to collect and answer as best as possible. Based on what I've gathered, and with much love to those I've gathered from, I think we can solve this. Well done!
I too think he looks Slavic or something. Someone said prior he looked Slavic a few years back. He could have been a foreigner who wanted to come to america, and maybe his foreign family assumed he made a life for himself here. Why else would no one be looking for him? Unless he was an estranged transient or had little family. That is a great theory Fred and Edna that there were a lot of Norwegians in the area.
luckyseven
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Thanks! I also agree that he looks Slavic.
What really puzzles me is that most LE seem to agree that he was local to the area, and that he had probably engaged in criminal activity in the past. I agree with them, too. But, if he was local and a frequent criminal, I can't imagine how no one from local LE would recognize him or would have his identifying info available. Like, he is a local criminal yet no local police know who he is? I know that the PD in my town are aware of who the local criminals are, who they associate with, etc. Makes me think either he really flew under the radar or he wasn't really in the area that long.
What really puzzles me is that most LE seem to agree that he was local to the area, and that he had probably engaged in criminal activity in the past. I agree with them, too. But, if he was local and a frequent criminal, I can't imagine how no one from local LE would recognize him or would have his identifying info available. Like, he is a local criminal yet no local police know who he is? I know that the PD in my town are aware of who the local criminals are, who they associate with, etc. Makes me think either he really flew under the radar or he wasn't really in the area that long.
Lucky seven, I do believe you're into something, esp #4. I actually went in a chat room last year and spoke to some guy who told me that he knew John Doe. I was sending his pic to thousands and thousands of people for about 7 years straight, mostly in chat rooms. As the years progressed, I went in senior chats or 50+ chats because JD's fam and friends would be around that age now. So the guy who said he recognized him told me that I should NOT get involved in helping ID him, as it could be dangerous for me. He actually said that JD had worked for the law enforcement or FBI and the case got swept under the carpet and the evidence got "lost". He said he knew him but he said he didn't want to get involved because the case was bad news. The conversation haunted me. He actually got upset at the end and said, "I've already told you too much. I'm not saying anything else." I still think he may have been misidentified as a Gacy victim too. Also, so many people went missing in the late 70's who still to this day are not reported.
It's a great video! And yes....large immigrant population makes the foreign angle intriguing. I personally haven't had much like with foreign language sites, even with translation, for missing persons. Might be worth a little more in depth on my part
Good point! I suppose it may have been common knowledge back then, especially among young men, that a 1962 Pontiac Catalina could be push started etc...my Dad knows that, I've asked him...haha....and he'd be considered local, but not a known criminal. Therefore the bicycle is a very important key to this. Was he biking to all of these places? I'm not an expert in the area, though I used to work nearby, and I don't think bicycling from Gurnee to many of those places he was searching for, or visiting, was practical.
I found out through another email with Waukesha detectives that the owner of the vehicles wife may have been a librarian and that the books found were more than likely hers. (I'm reviewing all of my notes). Now aside from the books noted in the car, the wallet w/business cards, notes, clothes, lighter, and cash all belonged to him. So yes, local to a point. How long? Matter of days is possible. Why even use "local" at all? Could be very transient which is why he is not known, in my opinion. The path to Wisconsin at least seems very deliberate. He wasn't chased until very close to the accident scene and he definitely had enough time to change course prior to then. Not implying that he meant to end up in Wisconsin at the end of his journey, but a haphazard cruise doesn't fit the MO of a guy who takes a bike to steal a car.
Could he be erroneously tied to the Gacy case? Possible.
Could he be a cross dresser because of the clothing representing both genders? Possible.
Is his case be part of a giant cover-up? Why even give us a case to work with then? Is it possible that he may be connected in someway to organized crime or part of a larger case? It is possible that we really haven't been given all the facts, but the original medical examiner pasted the guys photo (at least the composite drawing) all over his car and would drive the streets well out of his jurisdiction to aid in identifying him. If it were something more sinister, I'm sure they could have stopped him. Not impossible, but I don't see a conspiracy after this amount of time considering the evidence we do have.
luckyseven
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I just came across this article which indicates that "the underpass near Belmont and Kedzie avenues" is an area frequented by the homeless and transients. Of course, this is forty years after our JD had written the intersection's name. Has anyone come across any info that suggests this area may have also been a homeless area in the 70s?
luckyseven
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And another piece of info to note - I found an article from 1974 in the Chicago Tribune which states that: "Kemmerly is also advertised daily in the Eastern Air Lines Publication presented to passengers on every incoming flight to Chicago." Maybe our Doe recently flew into the city? I can't really tell what the Kemmerly thing is.. I mean, it looks like a button? What could it possibly have been to appear that way when scanned?
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