WI - Frank Jude beaten by off-duty Mikwaukee PD officers, 2004

[Jeana (DP)]

The guy he was with was most definitely black. And Jude is not white - definitely not compared to all the pasty cops. I think race was part of it, but I don't think it was the only thing - I think his physique and looks were part of it too.

I know that Jude isn't white, but he doesn't look black either. I'm not saying that race didn't play a part in this, I just think it was "in addition to" rather than the whole enchalada.

 

[tezi]

You don't think that a few cops beating the snot out of a guy is that big of a deal????? How come?

A question I'd like to know the answer to!

 

[Ang50]

I know that Jude isn't white, but he doesn't look black either. I'm not saying that race didn't play a part in this, I just think it was "in addition to" rather than the whole enchalada.

Agreed.

 

[Goody]

Seriously, the dude didn't look black. I think the cops may have had plenty of other problems, but I don't think there was a "black issue." (just my opinion).

He didn't look black but he definitely had similar features plus the guy he was with was very dark skinned. There was no mistaking that his friend was black. I think in person there probably was no mistaking that Jude was mixed race.

 

[Goody]

The guy he was with was most definitely black. And Jude is not white - definitely not compared to all the pasty cops. I think race was part of it, but I don't think it was the only thing - I think his physique and looks were part of it too.

LOL! I just posted basically the same thing. I should have waited to read your post. I agree obviously, but one glaring weak point in the cops story was that one of them saw Jude coming out of the bedroom, not the other guy but yet the other guy they claim ran away with the wallet and dumped it somewhere where it could never, ever be found. I think it is BS. At least one those cops copped an attitude about Jude and wanted a piece of him for some reason probably undisclosed. It could have been because Jude and his friend were black and invading their space. Right away the cops wanted to know who invited them to the party. I think they thought they were party crashers and didn't like it. Esp when they left so soon after arrival. I have walked into places and felt uncomfortable and left quickly myself so I can understand that feeling, and I am not a minority race. It happens sometimes. Most of those cops had been partying for 7 hours!! Who does that? They had to be very drunk and their judgment had to be very clouded. Some guys get drunk and get aggressive. Imagine combining that with the power that a policeman has. Many of them get Wyatt Earp syndrome as it is and have to be taken down a peg or two by superiors before they learn how to be a good cop. I can see where alcohol mixed with all of that could have led to that vicious beating, but in no way was it the fault of the victim.

 

[Goody]

I know that Jude isn't white, but he doesn't look black either. I'm not saying that race didn't play a part in this, I just think it was "in addition to" rather than the whole enchalada.

I agree, too. Speaking of enchiladas, I sure could use one right now! LOL! A nice cheesy one smothered in sauce with some rice and beans on the side. O, I am ready to go Mexican!!!! TJ, where are you??????

 

[Goody]

I'm not sure about the actual "off duty" part, but for the purposes of being prosecuted for a federal crime, it may make a difference.

Compare this to if this was a bar fight that happened to involve men who were not in uniform, but did work as cops. They just happened to get in a fight with other people. I don't think that they would be exposed to federal charges every time they were in a fight...

No, it wouldn't, but a cop is never off duty. That is why they aren't supposed to go out and tie a good one on even if they are off duty because they never know when a situation will occur that makes them "on duty" in a hurry. In short, if they witness a theft or attack, they are required to intervene if no other cops are in sight and when they do, they are automatically "on duty". If a cop is drunk, the lines get blurred and unwanted problems occur. So a cops behavior off duty is just as important as his behavior on duty. It doesn't mean that they can't have a life, just that they are not to put themselves in a position where their ability to be on duty suddenly is compromised. Having an all night party is not exactly living up to that expectation. As I understood the testimony of WI cops & LE, it applies in WI, too.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I agree, too. Speaking of enchiladas, I sure could use one right now! LOL! A nice cheesy one smothered in sauce with some rice and beans on the side. O, I am ready to go Mexican!!!! TJ, where are you??????

You should have been at my house a coupla weeks ago. I made two huge pans full of enchaladas! YUMMY!!!

I'm actually trying to get some work done during the day for a change. I've been up a few nights in a row because I've spent too much time here and doing other things and not getting enough done. Not getting my beauty rest and its starting to show. :doh:

 

[Jeana (DP)]

No, it wouldn't, but a cop is never off duty. That is why they aren't supposed to go out and tie a good one on even if they are off duty because they never know when a situation will occur that makes them "on duty" in a hurry. In short, if they witness a theft or attack, they are required to intervene if no other cops are in sight and when they do, they are automatically "on duty". If a cop is drunk, the lines get blurred and unwanted problems occur. So a cops behavior off duty is just as important as his behavior on duty. It doesn't mean that they can't have a life, just that they are not to put themselves in a position where their ability to be on duty suddenly is compromised. Having an all night party is not exactly living up to that expectation. As I understood the testimony of WI cops & LE, it applies in WI, too.

You're exactly right Goody. And, the fact of the matter is unless the cop fears for his/her life, there's no reason to use that much force. Certainly not a room full of cops against two guys.

 

[Goody]

You're exactly right Goody. And, the fact of the matter is unless the cop fears for his/her life, there's no reason to use that much force. Certainly not a room full of cops against two guys.

Hey, even if someone is fearing for their life, an ink pen in the ear is more than a little extreme. Gawd, that was awful what they did that man! In both ears no less! I mean, if a gang of cops holding a guy down is not enough self defense, maybe they should be seeking new employment because they sure aren't cut out for handling perps. I hope the feds do something about this because I don't think it was a fair verdict. Like you have said a few times here, there is just no excuse for them beating this guy so severely. I am all for cops and believe them 9 time out of 10, but this case just doesn't ring true no matter how they try to spin it. I wouldn't want to see any of them in a uniform again.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Hey, even if someone is fearing for their life, an ink pen in the ear is more than a little extreme. Gawd, that was awful what they did that man! In both ears no less! I mean, if a gang of cops holding a guy down is not enough self defense, maybe they should be seeking new employment because they sure aren't cut out for handling perps. I hope the feds do something about this because I don't think it was a fair verdict. Like you have said a few times here, there is just no excuse for them beating this guy so severely. I am all for cops and believe them 9 time out of 10, but this case just doesn't ring true no matter how they try to spin it. I wouldn't want to see any of them in a uniform again.

They'll be in uniform again, but it will be of the federal prison variety. I've given my kids some pointers in case they ever fear for their life and believe me, ears would be the least of the dude's worries!

 

[BhamMama]

Many of them get Wyatt Earp syndrome

Lol my husband calls it Barney Fife syndrome.

 

[Goody]

Lol my husband calls it Barney Fife syndrome.

LOL! Yeah, ol' Barney was a good one. I can still see him parading back and forth in front of the Mayberry cells giving the prison escapees that they caught instructions on expected behavior in the Mayberry Jail. "Rule number one, there will be no writing on the walls. Rule number two, ......" The hardcore escapees were rolling their eyes. LOL! Ol' Barney was dumb, but he wasn't mean like some of the cops we've seen in some of these beating cases. On the other hand, the only traffic ticket I ever got was from a young cop that looked like Opie right out of high school. He probably went home and celebrated that ticket!!! grrr.....

 

[Goody]

They'll be in uniform again, but it will be of the federal prison variety. I've given my kids some pointers in case they ever fear for their life and believe me, ears would be the least of the dude's worries!

I hope you are right. The good thing about that federal uniform is no parole! hahahahahahah!

 

[Ang50]

I hope you are right. The good thing about that federal uniform is no parole! hahahahahahah!

No parole in WI anymore either - not exactly. We went to Truth in Sentencing - and now 2/3 of any sentence must be served b4 anyone is eligible for early release.

I understand the "on-duty" and "off-duty" discussion - but my earlier point was what kind of difference it makes for federal charging. It's pretty obvious from the "color of law" test that an officer must be acting in official capacity - even though they may not be "on duty". But the statute is written in an way that the bar fight involving an officer wouldn't expose him to federal charges - does the distinction make sense? I think we all get it, and we're all making the point that no matter what, these cops should be accountable and these cops should be charged.

 

[Ang50]

Civil rights probe has been opened in this case.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/21/civilrights.probe.ap/index.html

While I feel bad for everything that happened to Jude, I think he will be a very rich man when all of this shakes out. Right now, his lawyers are waiting out all the criminal processes, but the civil process has a lower burden of proof, plus I think that any government entities will be eager to settle and not go through a trial. After all, it's these "community leaders", including the mayor, who are busy talking about injustice right now. That means when it comes time to pay up, those words can also come back to haunt.

I'm sure nothing can compensate Jude, but I think in the end, a civil settlement will mean big $$ and an admission of guilt by the government and attributable to the cops.

 

[Details]

He'll be a rich man (maybe) with nighmares and fear and still damage from that beating for life. Not a trade I'd ever take.

 

[Alta]

Well, because I think the guy deserved it for reasons stated earler. Again, I'm not saying that what happened was right, it wasn't. But I do believe Jude created the whole problem.

I watched this trial on Court Tv.I always thought it was a police officers job to Serve & Protect.Whether they are on duty or not is irrelevent.If they were suspicous that Frank had taken the badge,they should have waited for the on duty officers to arrive and have him searched.They all say they didn't beat the guy.But someone sure as heck did.If it was not one of these off duty officers,it was their job to protect the man.

Nobody deserves the beating this man got.You look at the pictures and listen to the Er doctor speak of his ear injuries.How can one say he deserved it?

As for my opinion on guilt.I think these officers are as guilty as hell,I sure hope they never get their jobs back.

 

[duke]

Nobody deserves the beating this man got.You look at the pictures and listen to the Er doctor speak of his ear injuries.How can one say he deserved it?

Maybe you're right. The beating he took was awfully severe. Perhaps I've been too hard on Mr. Jude. I recant my statement.

 

[Ang50]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=418183

Bartlett - one of the defendants in the Jude trial, is being sued civilly for the shooting death of a man while on duty. This particular cop has quite a track record with investigations of excessive force, racism, etc. Of course, this didn't come into the Jude trial.

I can't imagine Bartlett's legal bills...