Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #36

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  • #461
Does anyone here have first-person experience in helping/knowing how a victim like this rebuilds? I found myself wondering about her return to school. Would she return? Would she be in the same grade? Surely they wouldn’t fail her??

moo. the skills she missed may be needed to build the next skills on. having to fail a grade isn't the end of the world. it could have been much worse than it is. no it isn't fair to her, life quit being fair to her the night she was taken. maybe there are ways she can learn the school skills that was missed or maybe she already was functioning above what was expected and can just pick up and go on. either way at least she is home.
 
  • #462

Excellent - thanks for this!

Looks like AP is looking into the military angle:

"The Journal Sentinel reported Saturday that he wrote in a school yearbook about his plan to join the U.S. Marine Corps following graduation, but The Associated Press has been unable to confirm if he followed through."

"Unable to confirm" is unusual (major press usually has swift access), but it could be a government shutdown delay.
 
  • #463
I wonder if JP looked up to his brother and saw what he did as a positive example.

And given the lesser charges his brother received, JP probably thought it was okay. Again, don't know JP's psyche, but that dude is seriously disturbed in more ways than one as he killed 2 people to get to a girl.

More than likely, he didn't give a rat's tail what his brother or any other person ever did or didn't do unless it directly affected HIM.
He is a psychopath. He killed 2 people in COLD BLOOD.
He abducted a little 13 year old and hurt her and held her captive for 3 months!!!

Naw, not a chance in he!! he cares what another human does unless it's to him.
 
  • #464
‘There Is No Going Back’: Elizabeth Smart Offers Advice To Jayme Closs
Smart called Closs brave, strong, and a powerful survivor — but also says there is a long road ahead.


Elizabeth Smart (credit: CBS)

“The whole nation loves her and is so proud of her and admires her so much for surviving everything that she’s done,” Smart said. “But I’d also tell her that there is no going back to who she was before she was kidnapped, before this happened. And to chase after that is, it’s, I mean, she’ll never go back to that.”
 
  • #465
Elizabeth Smart gave no interviews or testimony about the details of what she went through until eight years later. She did not undergo any therapy either. So no details were discussed even with a counselor.

Those are facts. Amanda and Gina were full grown adults when they talked. Not 13 year old girls.

I do think the public wants details. One post here stated "I can't wait to see inside" where she was held. A subsequent post clarified that that apparent excitement was due to morbid curiosity.

Don't get me wrong, it's pretty obvious why she was taken, we all know she was likely assaulted (unless we're naive) and it's clear further charges as to that are probably coming soon. I don't think it's wrong to talk about that.

This conversation was about the desire to have her testify because it somehow is "healing" and to suggest otherwise is to shame and stigmatize sexual assault victims. That's what I'm discussing and I disagree with that point.

I'd like this child to be protected as much as is practicable and I disagree that it is healing for a child to testify about trauma she just endured.

I hope he pleads guilty so she can choose or at the least, trial won't happen for a long time so she can have time to recover.

That's just my opinion.
They can't refuse to allow her to be cross examined. We have a constitutional right to face our accusers and question them. But some courts allow certain protections. And a defense counsel would be insane to upset a child victim/witness on the stand.
A rape survivor can refuse to testify, according to this:

“We can’t force a victim in a sex case to testify,” Fox explained, noting that in other types of criminal cases a witness could be subpoenaed to come to court.

In this case, the victim decided “she had moved on and wanted to put this behind her,” Fox said. There’s nothing in the law that says a victim has to testify."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sa...-me-skorniak-notebook-20170623-story,amp.html
 
  • #466
Wisconsin kidnapping, killing suspect lived under the radar
JTP grew up in Gordon, a sprawling township of 645 people tucked into the snowy evergreen forests about 35 miles (55 kilometers) south of Lake Superior. It's wild country; roadside signs admonish motorists to share the pavement with ATVs.

The few neighbors who know Patterson's family say he grew up in a cabin in a remote development that's a mix of seasonal and year-round homes about 10 miles (16 kilometers) outside Gordon proper. Patterson's high school teachers barely remember the now 21-year-old man who graduated only three years ago, and say they didn't realize he still lived in the area.

The suspect has no apparent online presence. It appears he has been living in the family cabin; property records indicate his father still owned the place in October. But he has kept a low profile. KK told The Star Tribune that she didn't even realize he was her neighbor.

Despite EP's criminal record, few across the township seem to have heard of his family. JK, the township's lone constable, said he knows almost everyone in the area but has never encountered the Pattersons.

One of the businesses closest to the development is J&K's Halfway House Bar and Grille. Owner KB said she's run the place for 22 years and had never heard of the family before JP was arrested.

"I have no clue who they are," she said.

(names changed to initials by me)
 
  • #467
  • #468
.
I certainly see your point and respect it greatly. Even if true none of us aware of any detail that may have transpired.

While shielding victims is a wonderful gesture every victim is not the same.

I feel Jayme is much stronger than we may think. She reminds of Elizabeth Smart in many ways. Elizabeth always knew she had nothing to be ashamed of for what happened to her was none of her fault. She didnt cower at all when testifying about every graphic detail of what they did to her. She told the police everything.

It empowered her knowing in the end her goodness would overcome evil resulting in her receiving the justice she knew she deserved. She knew no one else could tell what she had gone through. Telling her story on the stand only made her stronger....not more fragile. Shasta too wanted to testify to everything Duncan had done.

I think Jayme will also show the same courage and will tell the investigators every tiny detail without hesitation.

If there is a trial she will step up to the witness stand...raise her right hand..sit down and will go through everything no matter how difficult it may be.

She knows she is the only one who can testify against this monster and expose all that he has done.

She wants justice for what she had to endure and will also go into great detail about what happened when he killed the two people she loved more than anyone.

I saw a trial one time years ago where a 5 year old girl testified. All you could see was her feet which she swung back and forth. But she sat up there and told how her mother had been raped and then murdered when the suspect cut her mom's throat but he also raped her and cut her throat too leaving her to die but miraculously she lived. I have never forgotten her courage. Her voice although soft was strong. She came there to get justice for her mom and for what he had also done to her and she did.

Children are more courageous and resilient than we may think. Being able to speak about it often can be healing for some abused victims.

Imo
I think my message may have come across differently than meant. It had nothing to do with what Jaymes decisions. I was speaking more about assumptions being made that no one knows have occurred & respecting Jayme's privacy in those assumptions. Maybe she is strong enough and mature enough not worry about what others may be assuming but since I don't know I was just hoping to bring light to the fact of it. I totally agree with you in all aspects of Jayme's strength as well as anything that may help to bring her healing and peace. I worked in Victim/Witness respect the decisions and choices made by all. I think my attempt at being vague caused my message to be lost. Apologies
 
  • #469
Does anyone here have first-person experience in helping/knowing how a victim like this rebuilds? I found myself wondering about her return to school. Would she return? Would she be in the same grade? Surely they wouldn’t fail her??
I missed a couple of months of school when I was a teen. When I came back home, the school district sent me to a tutor to get caught up. I imagine there is a similar system in Barron.
 
  • #470
I wonder about this as well. Keeping someone in captivity could result in either taking extra good care of the victim, for whatever reasons - he really cared for her (if he is capable). Or keeping her submissive and dependent on him - dirty, hungry, locked up. She would need to comply with the situation in order to receive food, shower. etc. OR, he simple didn't give a crap about her needs, as long as he had her with him - his goal of capturing someone had been complete. All my opinions, but somewhat based on the possibilities.

Think of people who want pets and are so proud of having that pet.Yet they keep the pet on a chain out in the cold.

No clue on how another creature may feel or what one needs. He only takes care of his needs. Nothing else matters
 
  • #471
Elizabeth Smart gave no interviews or testimony about the details of what she went through until eight years later. She did not undergo any therapy either. So no details were discussed even with a counselor.

Those are facts. Amanda and Gina were full grown adults when they talked. Not 13 year old girls.

I do think the public wants details. One post here stated "I can't wait to see inside" where she was held. A subsequent post clarified that that apparent excitement was due to morbid curiosity.

Don't get me wrong, it's pretty obvious why she was taken, we all know she was likely assaulted (unless we're naive) and it's clear further charges as to that are probably coming soon. I don't think it's wrong to talk about that.


This conversation was about the desire to have her testify because it somehow is "healing" and to suggest otherwise is to shame and stigmatize sexual assault victims. That's what I'm discussing and I disagree with that point.

I'd like this child to be protected as much as is practicable and I disagree that it is healing for a child to testify about trauma she just endured.


I hope he pleads guilty so she can choose or at the least, trial won't happen for a long time so she can have time to recover.

That's just my opinion.

RBBM.
You are my mirror spirit poster. THANK YOU for what you said about calming down the " morbid curiosity" and also for protecting Jayme now and in the future to give her the BEST life possible.

There are no statue of limitations on what the human spirit can accomplish, what the human mind can learn, and what the human heart can contain in amounts of love.

We have to learn to give young victims the best of the best of care and tools to grow in this world, so they will learn what that sort of giving and taking is like, and can do it themselves for their budding adult lives as they heal. ( I think we also need to do more with drug counseling and healthy birth control vs. possible promiscuity in the future. Just calling it like I see it after reviewing some brutal cases with sad middles, not yet endings.)

A young formerly abused survivor needs to learn the message they are better than drugs can ever make them feel and much different creations than the way they were used by a predator.
 
  • #472
I certainly see your point and respect it greatly. Even if true none of us aware of any detail that may have transpired.

While shielding victims is a wonderful gesture every victim is not the same.

I feel Jayme is much stronger than we may think. She reminds of Elizabeth Smart in many ways. Elizabeth always knew she had nothing to be ashamed of for what happened to her was none of her fault. She didnt cower at all when testifying about every graphic detail of what they did to her. She told the police everything.

It empowered her knowing in the end her goodness would overcome evil resulting in her receiving the justice she knew she deserved. She knew no one else could tell what she had gone through. Telling her story on the stand only made her stronger....not more fragile. Shasta too wanted to testify to everything Duncan had done.

I think Jayme will also show the same courage and will tell the investigators every tiny detail without hesitation.

If there is a trial she will step up to the witness stand...raise her right hand..sit down and will go through everything no matter how difficult it may be.

She knows she is the only one who can testify against this monster and expose all that he has done.

She wants justice for what she had to endure and will also go into great detail about what happened when he killed the two people she loved more than anyone.

I saw a trial one time years ago where a 5 year old girl testified. All you could see was her feet which she swung back and forth. But she sat up there and told how her mother had been raped and then murdered when the suspect cut her mom's throat but he also raped her and cut her throat too leaving her to die but miraculously she lived. I have never forgotten her courage. Her voice although soft was strong. She came there to get justice for her mom and for what he had also done to her and she did.

Children are more courageous and resilient than we may think. Being able to speak about it often can be healing for some abused victims.

Imo
I agree with you and whether she testifies or not people will let their imagination go wild. It will always be the elephant in the room. She needs to handle this as she wants and as she can. She's already shown how resilient she is and I have every faith she will handle this the same way. She also seems to have a strong support group in her family. And I know she has God on her side!!
 
  • #473
Neighbor who came to Jayme Closs' aid: 'We were armed and ready' for suspect to come looking
“When our neighbor J came in with Jayme, she said: ‘Get a gun. We don’t know if he’s after us,’” K said. “So we were armed and ready in case this person showed up.”

wisconsin_road.png

This is the road that Jayme Closs was found on. (Cristina Corbin/Fox News)

K said that three officers initially arrived at her home. They took Closs to safety and told KK and her kids to get away from any windows in case the suspected abductor came to their home.

“My kids and I – we went downstairs,” she said. “My husband was asked to stand guard at one of the doors on the upper floor. [Patterson] was then arrested not that far away from our house.”

Patterson’s father owned the secluded home where he is accused of keeping Closs captive. Kasinskas said, “It’s just a small little house with a lot of vehicles in the yard.”

(names changed to initials by me)
 
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  • #474
Who would determine the need for her to testify or not? Would she have any say in that? I guess the reason I ask is pondering the idea that she may actually want to testify.

I think by trial time Jayme will testify because she wants to testify. She knows she is the key witness in this case.

Imo more than anything Jayme wants justice and she knows she is the only who can layout what happened from moment one to the end when she escaped.

If anyone watches Survived the common theme for all of the survivors is wanting to testifying against those who had murdered their love ones and/or almost killed them. Some were even younger than Jayme and had been victims of sexual assault including some who had been held captive.

That is where they say they take back the power and control from those who have done very violent crimes against them and/others.

They know then the suspect is the one who fears them the most for they have the power and truth to see that they pay the harshest punishment for everything they have done.

They say testifying also makes sure the suspects will never be able to harm anyone else.

The trial wont happen soon and they will have mental health experts working with Jayme throughout until she tells them she feels comfortable to testify. But that's a long way off from now.

Imo
 
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  • #475
He worked for one day at jennyo 3 years ago. Is there connection there????
 
  • #476
I agree with you and whether she testifies or not people will let their imagination go wild. It will always be the elephant in the room. She needs to handle this as she wants and as she can. She's already shown how resilient she is and I have every faith she will handle this the same way. She also seems to have a strong support group in her family. And I know she has God on her side!!
I suppose everyone has their own curiosities, but personally I don't feel the need to know every personal and horrific piece of minutia. If anything, I'd like to know how and why he chose the Closs family. Oh, and where the stairs are in that freaking house! :D
 
  • #477
I read so many articles last night and don’t remember which one it was in but the teacher who had Jayme in her house said that Jayme told them that JP told her he was leaving and would be back around midnight. Jayme took that opportunity to escape. I think it’s very interesting that he was apprehended so quickly after that. Makes me wonder if he was on his way to somewhere or if he was just testing her. The same article said they all moved into the basement until police arrived.
Did anyone else see this article for a link-if not I will try to find again
 
  • #478

Wow. I had to read it twice.

From the above article--if the person who ran the only cafe in the area and the local LE didn't know any of the family...what did the parents do for a living? Why so reclusive? I know these can't be answered here I am just wondering.

Did the parents, who according to that article divorced in 2008, leave JP and his brother in the cabin to raise themselves? In 2008 JP was 11ish and his brother 14???

Or did they live there with their father?
I have lots of questions which can't be answered here.

I grew up in a town a little larger. Rural. Everybody knew everybody. Even the recluses were known.

Thanks @Caylee Advocate for this article!!

JMO and wondering
 
  • #479
Neighbor who came to Jayme Closs' aid: 'We were armed and ready' for suspect to come looking
“When our neighbor J came in with Jayme, she said: ‘Get a gun. We don’t know if he’s after us,’” K said. “So we were armed and ready in case this person showed up.”

wisconsin_road.png

This is the road that Jayme Closs was found on. (Cristina Corbin/Fox News)

K said that three officers initially arrived at her home. They took Closs to safety and told KK and her kids to get away from any windows in case the suspected abductor came to their home.

“My kids and I – we went downstairs,” she said. “My husband was asked to stand guard at one of the doors on the upper floor. [Patterson] was then arrested not that far away from our house.”

Patterson’s father owned the secluded home where he is accused of keeping Closs captive. Kasinskas said, “It’s just a small little house with a lot of vehicles in the yard.”

(names changed to initials by me)

Wow... that is super awesome because like kkdj posted here earlier today, their lives were in danger, too. Glad it all worked out for Jayme and all of these amazing people to come together once she made the courageous move to escape.
 
  • #480
BBM

If anyone truly cares for this girl or what she's been through, my small slice of perspective of how these things can go.

We're very different people & I didn't go through anything as horrific as Jayme has, but was held in state facilities for my own good the first month & a half following removal from a very bad situation at 12. Had no idea what was coming: intense 'intake' process, hospital stays, psych evals, interviews with detectives & caseworkers, sudden unexplained moves and loss of friends. Although household life was 1,000% more stable, I couldn't process the constant sudden out of the blue episodes of dealing with 'authority' figures in their professional lives, my limbic system only knew to second guess everything after all that time. So it felt like straight from the frying pan into the fire, as far as what was expected of me. Initially being 'left out' of the decision process and dumping the events without simple reminder like a public calendar triggered a lot of anxiety, etc.

Within 3-6 months you can well imagine the hiding, hoarding, noncommunicative/lying and standoffishness toward others who expected perfectly normal healthy behaviour, was wearing thin.
It was the expectations that I 'fit in', 'leave it behind', reflect something I'd never lived before, that 'proved' to me I was somehow right to plan ahead in case things didn't work out. It was the failures of those tasked with my care, to recognize my abusers (separate), came with whole communities who enabled stalking and harassment. To this day it's struck me how very little anybody seems to grasp how common these things are, and how undersupported victims of public backlash become.

Suppose that Jayme won't be going through the 'limbo' phase as she's been reunited with family, although it's important to consider she's missed her her parents funeral which doesn't help her grieving process. Regardless the realities she experienced there, it's just different when a kid can attend such an event to process what has happened with their community.

These are all great resources, given that a social worker is helping the family understand what is accessible at this stage for Jayme, and for how long these may be available. The case now opened, regarding her kidnapping and abuse is both how they will have coverage and yet how they will not get it in time.

I was only able to benefit from crime victims in Wa. state years after a lengthy trial. I may be wrong about this, but what was offered had a limit of 48 months. 'Luckily' I had gone through several separate abuse events which ensured I'd be eligible for longer than the initial time (though not really as long as was needed).

There is a clock counting down on both the 'honeymoon' phase of reunification, and the assistance so I'd think it wise to consider working in more tangible ways to prevent the inevitable drop off.
Thank you for your perspective, tnith. It is good to see you posting here.
BBM
Good observation.

I was under the impression that it was a hired nanny ?
It'd be interesting to hear from this caretaker, sitter, or whatever.
She has been silent about what she may have observed about the family dynamics, in the days leading up to the incident.
Sometimes caretakers know quite a bit about the child under their care, and the family as well.
JS babysat for her all the time in her daycare that she ran. And they had daily contact. Her aunts were almost second moms.
Jayme Closs Smiles with Her Aunt and Her Dog in First Photo After Escaping Kidnapping
 
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