Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #43

[ilovechili]

Yes I think he is very proud of his Rambo act. I do not think he feels anything about the magnitude of what he's done, just proud of being Rambo.....and whatever else he did.

I agree with what we know that this is likely. I am trying to come up with a name for him that he would not like lol (not sure probably can't go there on here). I think JTP was a wannabe--wannabe somebody--even if it was criminal--he would have continued... But he failed. Just a wannabe.

 

[MsBetsy]

So forgive me if this came up already as I’ve not had time to read every post... but I’m calling Bs on Patterson.

He parroted what the police said in the media. That he was there only about four mins. But that doesn’t explain how neighbors heard the shot that took out James and the one that broke in the door. He was there when the shots went off til a few seconds before cops arrived. That’s gotta be longer than four mins. How long did he sit outside and watch for lights to go off etc?

Well, he did park at the end of the driveway and walk up to the house. Then he saw James through the window and yelled at him before shooting him and shooting the door down. By the time he got to the bathroom, Denise was on the 911 call. Then it was about 4 or 5 minutes after that when LE arrived. So it may have been 4 minutes give or take a couple of minutes. Imo

 

[Julia966]

Well, he did park at the end of the driveway and walk up to the house. Then he saw James through the window and yelled at him before shooting him and shooting the door down. By the time he got to the bathroom, Denise was on the 911 call. Then it was about 4 or 5 minutes after that when LE arrived. So it may have been 4 minutes give or take a couple of minutes. Imo

I agree, I'm sure it's roughly correct. The 4 minutes from the media is a different 4 minutes anyway. The media was talking about the time from the 911 call to police arrival. JP is talking about how long he was there. If he passed the police within seconds of leaving the house, then it had to be more than 4 minutes that he was at the house, but probably not a whole lot longer.

 

[Lillymac]

Well, he did park at the end of the driveway and walk up to the house. Then he saw James through the window and yelled at him before shooting him and shooting the door down. By the time he got to the bathroom, Denise was on the 911 call. Then it was about 4 or 5 minutes after that when LE arrived. So it may have been 4 minutes give or take a couple of minutes. Imo

Plus the 911 call was 48 seconds long. Surely she made that call when the gun shots were first heard.

 

[MsBetsy]

Just a thought: If he had decided to kill all witnesses then why the need for a mask? Just to terrorise or for some other reason?

Yes, and maybe just to be safe. Maybe he considered the possibility of a witness seeing him leaving the crime scene. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Plus the 911 call was 48 seconds long. Surely she made that call when the gun shots were first heard.

LE got there 4 minutes after the 911 call, not after the shots were fired. He then walked through the house before entering the bathroom. It must have been a little later, since they didn't arrive within 4 minutes of the shots. Imo

 

[kkdj]

deleted by me

 

[human]

Crimes/ deaths are not listed in WI seller’s disclosure requirements. Just defects (roof, framing, pest, sinkhole, etc).
Wisconsin Legislature: Chapter 709
“A2. In this form, “defect” means a condition that would have a significant adverse effect on the value of the property; that would significantly impair the health or safety of future occupants of the property; or that if not repaired, removed, or replaced would significantly shorten or adversely affect the expected normal life of the premises.“
However... always best to disclose. MOO.

From the article I previously cited:


The question of whether the seller or agent must disclose a property’s notorious ownership is gray. On a RECR, the seller is asked to disclose conditions that would have a significant adverse effect on the value of the property. Although it is not easily quantified, it is possible that a notorious owner, specifically with a criminal reputation or past, could significantly affect property value or the new owner’s ability to resell a property.

Even if there is no physical damage, there may be a sort of psychological damage present. Typically buyers find out about the event, occurrence or previous owner’s notoriety from the neighbor. For that reason, real estate licensees may encourage sellers to let the licensee disclose the house’s history in order to avoid potential future disputes.

In the 1992 Green Springs Farms case, the Wisconsin Court of Appeals held that a seller had the duty to fully disclose to potential buyers the existence of conditions material to the buyer’s decision to purchase which the buyer is in a poor position to discover. Although this duty to disclose holding has not yet been applied to a stigmatized property case, including notorious ownership, it arguably could be.

 

[Ragnarok]

Right, that was the previous poster's point, IMO. His choices from his view were to restrain her or to kill her, and restraining her would have been really hard to do. Part or all of his decision to kill her. IMO

What's been haunting me is wondering whether Jayme knew there were neighbors around when she made her escape. Maybe heard car tires pulling into driveways, or saw or smelled smoke from their stovepipes or chimneys. The idea that she didn't know, and just took a chance, terrifies me.

Even without seeing JN out dogwalking, Jayme could have approached either JN's house or KK's house and been safe. But what if no one was home in that little development of mostly vacation homes? The idea she might have had to spend hours hiding in the woods, or reach the main road and flag down a car not knowing if it might be him, just twists my stomach!

I know we'll never know unless she wants to tell that part of the story, but I personally hope she saw an opportunity in the form of the presence of neighbors and grabbed it, rather than running out into such unknown...

I don't think Jayme heard anyone or anything outside. We know he turned the radio volume up so JC couldn't hear or hide sounds she made. The house is set back a bit and I suspect the room she was held in is at the back.

I would like to know if she heard the earlier incorrect news story that she had been found?

Jayme I'm sure had been debating the risks of staying or going for awhile. I can't imagine the fear she had after what happened to her parents followed by three months being held by JP.

That she overcame that fear; despite the weather and available clothing, not knowing where she was nor how long she would be outside to flee is a testament a very strong inner self.

Yea, terrifying for sure.

 

[ilovechili]

LE got there 4 minutes after the 911 call, not after the shots were fired. He then walked through the house before entering the bathroom. It must have been a little later, since they didn't arrive within 4 minutes of the shots. Imo

I think LE was more like 7 after the initial call. Per JP he walked through the house, it took him 10 to 15 attempts to beat the bathroom door down. He had Denise allegedly tape Jayme and then he did it and then he dragged her all the way down the driveway. I think the 4 minutes, could be wrong, is a bit of bragging and taken as many think straight from media and LE. I think more than that actually but will not voice it. I just tell myself that there are always the unknowns that are not shared. For instance, Jayme gave an account, but not any time frame. The time frame comes from JP and a "what if" type of remark from LE. So my mind remains open on some of the time frame...

 

[OhThatVictoria]

I don't think Jayme heard anyone or anything outside. We know he turned the radio volume up so JC couldn't hear or hide sounds she made. The house is set back a bit and I suspect the room she was held in is at the back.

I would like to know if she heard the earlier incorrect news story that she had been found?

Jayme I'm sure had been debating the risks of staying or going for awhile. I can't imagine the fear she had after what happened to her parents followed by three months being held by JP.

That she overcame that fear; despite the weather and available clothing, not knowing where she was nor how long she would be outside to flee is a testament a very strong inner self.

Yea, terrifying for sure.

Yes. The circumstances of the false report followed by Jayme’s appearance were just too coincidental. I also think she heard the Walworth County news story tied to her and took it as a sign to get the Hell out of there.

 

[human]

I think LE was more like 7 after the initial call. Per JP he walked through the house, it took him 10 to 15 attempts to beat the bathroom door down. He had Denise allegedly tape Jayme and then he did it and then he dragged her all the way down the driveway. I think the 4 minutes, could be wrong, is a bit of bragging and taken as many think straight from media and LE. I think more than that actually but will not voice it. I just tell myself that there are always the unknowns that are not shared. For instance, Jayme gave an account, but not any time frame. The time frame comes from JP and a "what if" type of remark from LE. So my mind remains open on some of the time frame...

Maybe LE said the four mins because they had a profile. The statements that he left no evidence were false.

Perhaps the four minutes were said because they were inflating his ego on what a master criminal he was.

I think there are some articles talking about that but they are in the Star? I have used up my free reads

 

[human]

Yes. The circumstances of the false report followed by Jayme’s appearance were just too coincidental. I also think she heard the Walworth County news story tied to her and took it as a sign to get the Hell out of there.

We had a discussion on whether or not she listenend to the radio.

I cannot recall if anyone gave an actual citation.

People claimed that she said that she did not know anyone was looking for her. Does anyone have that citation?

 

[ilovechili]

Yes. The circumstances of the false report followed by Jayme’s appearance were just too coincidental. I also think she heard the Walworth County news story tied to her and took it as a sign to get the Hell out of there.

That entire day was odd. Like things being flushed out in Wisconsin. From what most of us heard that day anyhow...

 

[ilovechili]

Maybe LE said the four mins because they had a profile. The statements that he left no evidence were false.

Perhaps the four minutes were said because they were inflating his ego on what a master criminal he was.

I think there are some articles talking about that but they are in the Star? I have used up my free reads

Great points. And we were misled on more than a few things. For the right reasons most likely but we know it is done...

 

[MsBetsy]

I think LE was more like 7 after the initial call. Per JP he walked through the house, it took him 10 to 15 attempts to beat the bathroom door down. He had Denise allegedly tape Jayme and then he did it and then he dragged her all the way down the driveway. I think the 4 minutes, could be wrong, is a bit of bragging and taken as many think straight from media and LE. I think more than that actually but will not voice it. I just tell myself that there are always the unknowns that are not shared. For instance, Jayme gave an account, but not any time frame. The time frame comes from JP and a "what if" type of remark from LE. So my mind remains open on some of the time frame...

Yes, also the dispatcher tried calling back, and also looked up the information regarding the house phone and when she tried that got the message that it had been disconnected. So it may have actually been 4 minutes after that. I don't really think the time discrepancy is big enough to be significant. I doubt Patterson was watching the time while he was committing the crime. It was probably just his estimate of how long it took. Imo

 

[ilovechili]

We had a discussion on whether or not she listenend to the radio.

I cannot recall if anyone gave an actual citation.

People claimed that she said that she did not know anyone was looking for her. Does anyone have that citation?

It was said I believe by the dog walker. Per one news org at least. I could not tell you which. I know KSTP was one of the early ones... I know the night of the escape I mostly had the locals on, 11, 5, etc. And I heard it. It seems to me it was while they were walking to the other home, I got the impression that after realizing who she was, she was something like how many people would be so happy, did she realize how many people were looking for her...

 

[OhThatVictoria]

I forget sometimes he brought a knife with as well (at least according to him, not that he is the fountain of veracity). I wonder if he had specific fantasies for that. However, time got away, he had a bathroom door to knock down and a 911 call was made. We may never know what all was in his head or what his sick "plan" was.

Maybe the knife was for the duct tape. I read up on Gorilla brand duct tape and according to the manufacturer, you can tear it manually. (Haven’t we all struggled w/duct tape?) Interesting sidebar about duct tape is that labs can match samples from victims to their original rolls. Those w/more knowledge on forensics can fill in those blanks.

Wonder if he burned all the tape he used to bind JC (along w/her clothes) as well as the original roll?

 

[ilovechili]

Yes, also the dispatcher tried calling back, and also looked up the information regarding the house phone and when she tried that got the message that it had been disconnected. So it may have actually been 4 minutes after that. I don't really think the time discrepancy is big enough to be significant. I doubt Patterson was watching the time while he was committing the crime. It was probably just his estimate of how long it took. Imo

My time thing has more to do with before any 911 call where I leave my mind open. I agree that 4 or 7 minutes is not all that significant. I am thinking more along the lines of when he got there until there was a 911 call. The 911 call is the basis of our timing. I guess what I mean for one example is he may have looked thoroughly through every room and they may have been in the bathroom longer than we think but trying to be quiet re not dial 911 hoping he would leave and think no one in the house until he started attacking the door... Just one example...

 

[MsBetsy]

It was said I believe by the dog walker. Per one news org at least. I could not tell you which. I know KSTP was one of the early ones... I know the night of the escape I mostly had the locals on, 11, 5, etc. And I heard it. It seems to me it was while they were walking to the other home, I got the impression that after realizing who she was, she was something like how many people would be so happy, did she realize how many people were looking for her...

Yes, it's been posted many times, and I think again in the last thread when it was brought up.
The neighbor said Jayme had no idea people were looking for her.
Jayme told LE that Patterson played music in his room so she wouldn't hear anything when he had people over. She never mentioned hearing any news on the radio. Imo