Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #43

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  • #801
Yes, I know there is no defense called schizophrenia. Like many illnesses, schizophrenia has varying degrees of severity. Mentally ill people, including schizophrenics, can appear to be quite well at times. They can plan things. Some serial killers have been diagnosed as schizophrenic. There's more to the insanity defense than simply knowing right from wrong. Another part of it is whether the person could control their conduct even if they know it is wrong. Of course, JP's lawyer could use any mental illness label if a doc diagnoses it. Borderline personality disorder might be another illness (Jeffrey Dahmer was diagnosed with that), or antisocial personality disorder, but I believe schizophrenia may be the particular illness because of his age and because, although he planned it, I think his planning really stopped at killing the Closses and getting Jayme to his cabin. MOO.

ETA Even if he doesn't use an insanity defense, I will be interested to know whether he will later be deemed mentally ill after the trial.
My thoughts exactly about being deemed mentally ill on appeal. This always came across as a PTSD potential claim since he is ex military correct? Outside of this, i've avoided this thread due to what i've observed.. are there any talks of sealing testimony that they don't want out?
 
  • #802
My thoughts exactly about being deemed mentally ill on appeal. This always came across as a PTSD potential claim since he is ex military correct? Outside of this, i've avoided this thread due to what i've observed.. are there any talks of sealing testimony that they don't want out?
I don't think PTSD will be brought up, at least not in relation to his military background. He didn't make it through boot camp. Only five weeks and discharged. I would guess mentally/physically unfit. MOO.
 
  • #803
I don't think PTSD will be brought up, at least not in relation to his military background. He didn't make it through boot camp. Only five weeks and discharged. I would guess mentally/physically unfit. MOO.
Thanks for the clarification.. I work with two guys in Plumbing with mild cases, and when there are air shows flying over, the looks and reactions are haunting..
 
  • #804
Why do you feel now is not the appropriate time? I feel any time is appropriate to offer sympathy and condolences. If he waits, people would say "Man, I can't believe he isn't saying anything to offer sympathy to her family. What a rude and uncaring man."

No matter what he did he will be criticized. All he can do is his best.
 
  • #805
You don’t need to be a criminal profiler to come up with no guilt, no remorse, no empathy.

That just described nearly every murderer or criminal who committed a heinous crime.
 
  • #806
And I hope JP doesn’t waste everybody's time with a trial.
 
  • #807
And I hope JP doesn’t waste everybody's time with a trial.
I believe JP confessed to garner attention, and the same reason he'd want a trial. Instead, I hope he's offered, and accepts, participation in a study of his criminal mind. That would both benefit society, and may satisfy his desire for spotlight instead of inside the courtroom. MOO
 
  • #808
I believe JP confessed to garner attention, and the same reason he'd want a trial. Instead, I hope he's offered, and accepts, participation in a study of his criminal mind. That would both benefit society, and may satisfy his desire for spotlight instead of inside the courtroom. MOO
I agree. I think he craves attention.
 
  • #809
Someone posted last night about the extremely horrible childhoods of Bundy and Manson, Gein and a few other known prolific predatory murderers reminding me of something I learned about abnormal occurrences in childhood, adolescence to the age of self- reliance. I'm going to discuss this in general terms, and also as it possibly and anecdotally has been said to apply to to J. Patterson, IMO.

When a growing and developing psyche hurts, a youth developing coping skills in an environment which hurts them deeply will retreat from the source of pain as best as possible. Metaphorically, killing their developing personality, but actually modifying their responses to hurts, either real or imagined. . An abused and neglected adult can go to a shelter for abused persons, but a kid is not autonomous or mobile enough, plus they'd have more problems when they did get home.. With that in mind, I also learned the following, which I firmly believed was very much a thing of the past decades. I guess I might have been wrong in believing the practice had ended. .

It hit me like a ton of bricks when I was preparing a post which I never posted about how parents treat children ( generally, I know there are extremely bad outliers) in my lifetime compared to how the oppositional or " difficult" child was treated for the first half of the 20th century and probably before then

It was NOT RARE in part of the 20th century for parents and their sweet, well- behaved loving children to literally leave a troubled child, usually a boy, behind for the neighbors or a church, or a school teacher to maybe help, usually knowing no one is going to be much help for very long.
MANY FAMILIES who believed they had a child or teen who was physically hurtful to them or to their siblings, or were non-reactive to positive reinforcement for good behavior and proper instruction for misbehaving WITH NO PERIODS OF CALM, JUST TERROR, would actually pack up their important personal belongings and MOVE AWAY when the problem child or teen was out of the house. The kid would come home and home would be empty. Their family- GONE. It was absolutely shocking for me to learn about this form of abandonment when a troubled child became a liability to the rest of the family. Some predatory murderers were abandoned by their parent or grandparent when they were children, some barely knew how to read and write because no one got them to school, and neglect and physical abuse is a common thread running through the biographical information. Neglect of a child is a type of abuse, both physically and emotionally.

Back to J.Patterson:
As I was thinking about all the children whose caregiver just moved away and left them in the context of the historical known childhoods of some killers, I was stunned when I questioned:
What if what we believe happened in the Patterson household is *likely* the modern example of "leaving the troubled or oppositional child behind for school or others to raise? "
It seems his brother, who is believed to have been also left in the house without parents at a young age, has also had legal problems early in life.. The two boys are said to have been left alone together in the family home when they were still quite young and still in middle school grades. In addition to the normal tasks of interacting with peers and establishing friendships and positive relationships, the child or children who are left alone are given the tasks: to learn to study and complete school assignments before watching TV or playing video games, to live everyday life, get to school, prepare some meals, maybe do their laundry, just take care of themselves and not burn the house down. Where was the nurturing? Did the boy or both of them reject nurturing? It's possible.
We likely can't know with certainty that this info about them living alone while so young is absolutely true, but it's been said by neighbors and there are records posted in some of the closed threads here which support that both parents and the sister left the house but the boys stayed there just prior to being a teenager for one, and barely a teen for the brother.

The larger issue is " How, then, does the pre-teen or young teen who's left to raise himself learn to self-govern his behaviors"? The answer is- they don't learn, because likely, there's little to no feedback between them and a parent or parental figure. Little to no ability to freely talk to a parent when there is a question or problem about what's right and what's wrong, because " I'd be bothering Mom at her new house" or " Dad's somewhere out of town for work" ( just as examples) .
The kids probably have to figure out what is helpful and what is harmful, or just choose to ignore the elephant in the middle of the room.
ALL teens have important moral ,social, and societal things they have to learn and they do so by observing how their caregiver in the home handles problems, interacts with neighbors and friends, obeys ( or disobeys) laws like paying taxes, not getting speeding tickets, just the general " How to live ( or not behave like a parent with problems might) in the world when you are grown up" kinds of things.

I'm not saying by any stretch that JP had a childhood possibly like a Manson or a Bundy. No.
However, historical data has shown that the emerging predatory killer will be someone with no regard for human life, sometimes including his own life. Someone with no remorse after killing. A person who doesn't care about the consequences or punishment for such extreme wrongdoing.


Please note- >>>> Anti-social personality disorder* is not being shy, avoiding crowds, not especially liking family events or social events. All of that is normal, we each have levels of sociability on a huge range. I, and others, are always referring to violent, extremely harmful behaviors against other people when using the term Anti-social personality disorder .<<<<<<
 
  • #810
deleted by me
 
  • #811
Six weeks until next Patterson court date
For the next six weeks a preliminary hearing on Wednesday, Feb. 6, that lasted less than five minutes is likely to be the last official public reference to a double murder and kidnapping in rural Barron last October, the alleged imprisonment of a 13-year-old girl, her unexpected escape, and the arrest of her alleged captor.

So far as the prosecution is concerned, the preliminary hearing will be the last public pronouncement of any sort, a spokesperson for the Wisconsin Attorney General’s office said Monday, Feb. 11.

“We will have no comment on what will take place before the arraignment takes place,” Rebecca Ballweg, deputy director of communications and public affairs, said during a phone interview.

Until his next court date, Patterson will be held at the Polk County Jail. Barron jail officials said it was “an administrative decision” to move him to the jail at Balsam Lake, but also confirmed that a relative of the Closs family is a member of the Barron County Jail staff.

Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald said it will cost $40 per day to house Patterson at the jail in Balsam Lake, Wis.

“But we expect to offset (that cost) with money we take in from housing inmates from Burnett and Washburn (counties),” he said.
 
  • #812
"Barron jail officials said it was “an administrative decision” to move him to the jail at Balsam Lake, but also confirmed that a relative of the Closs family is a member of the Barron County Jail staff."

Interesting! And a good decision. The last thing anyone needs is Patterson's attorneys suggesting impropriety. Plus, I think it would be hard on the family member to have him there.
 
  • #813
Jayme Closs and Family Send Thanks for Love and Support
Updated: February 13, 2019 10:16 AM

It's been just over a month since Jayme Closs escaped her captor, and found her freedom on an icy road in Gordon, Wisconsin.

Now, she and her family has reached out to WDIO News to release a statement they want to be shared with everyone.

"Jayme and her family wish to extend their deepest gratitude for the incredible gifts and generous donations that she has received from all over the country and around the world. Jayme greatly appreciates each and every gift, as well as the many cards and letters. The many kind words have been a source of great comfort to her. "
 
  • #814
Thank you
That really bothered me as well.

I'm willing to cut the family a little slack on telling him they love him. I imagine they know the time is short where they will be able to speak to him outside a jail and perhaps not without glass between them.
 
  • #815
I'm willing to cut the family a little slack on telling him they love him. I imagine they know the time is short where they will be able to speak to him outside a jail and perhaps not without glass between them.

Just wanted to say- I don't really know how they feel or have interacted away from cameras, but in any case, it's extremely kind-hearted of you to take this position and I admire it and have learned from your words.

Whether or not this is a noble position to take in view of what he's done to an entire family of strangers, plus damage to his own family, is not for me to question or decide.
 
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  • #816
I'm willing to cut the family a little slack on telling him they love him. I imagine they know the time is short where they will be able to speak to him outside a jail and perhaps not without glass between them.

I don’t judge them either and feel the same as you do.
 
  • #817
You can actually feel both love and hatred at the same time for someone.
 
  • #818
  • #819
I don’t judge them either and feel the same as you do.

Sometimes even if someone you love does something incomprehensible, you still love them. You may despise what they did, but love exists outside the part of our brains that judges. Especially love in a family. "In families, there are no crimes beyond forgiveness." Pat Conroy
 
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  • #820
I'm willing to cut the family a little slack on telling him they love him. I imagine they know the time is short where they will be able to speak to him outside a jail and perhaps not without glass between them.
Similar to Chris Watts, JP is segregated and not permitted visitors. He has only seen his fsmily at the hearings, and we all witnessed the level of contact or interaction they have had. JP appeared at first hearing by video so he was not seen in the flesh until just recently.

Yeah, who are we to tell a parent to stop loving their child. Natural Parents instinctly hate the criminal but love the child. Christians hate the sin, love the sinner. And so on.....
 
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