Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #43

[ilovechili]

This is not their time or place. He could have given a short statement on how no words will soften what has happened. That they are prostrate with grief as to what has happened to the Closs’s.

Then they can stay away from the trial so they are not in the face of people who are dealing with the most horrendous of atrocities. The Patterson’s can go visit JP in jail and expresss their love and support there.

This is not their stage or platform.

So very well stated. I particularly agree with the first paragraph. I hate to judge but people already think JP has no feelings, empathy, guilt or remorse--what he was capable of doing shows that I think as well. PP is trying to show he himself does but it is so off in timing that it has the opposite effect and almost makes him look as if he too cannot even fathom how horrible this was and what the timing should be for reaching out and has the same lack of understanding his son seems to lack. This is not apologizing for some misdemeanor! There is no way they have even grieved Denise and James imo. A crime does not allow you to do that and Jayme was missing. Even with her back it, imho, will take justice before they can even process it all and truly grieve. When the sister said James and Denise would not be at rest until Jayme was home or found, that is so very true. I also believe until justice is served, the process is and can be halted with regard to grief and processing. In some cases, justice is not served, and that has to be so very difficult for people that experience that.

He may mean well but the timing is hard to understand. Be there at court for your son if you feel that need. Wait on anything else. There are no words--there is no apology--there is no changing it or fixing it--for sure not at this time...

However, I will end this with saying that he has not defended the actions of his son and it takes a bit of guts to be there in the storm of public opinion against your son.

jmho and only mine.

 

[ilovechili]

Excellent.

You and I even when we disagree really agree. If that makes any flippin* sense

 

[human]

So very well stated. I particularly agree with the first paragraph. I hate to judge but people already think JP has no feelings, empathy, guilt or remorse--what he was capable of doing shows that I think as well. PP is trying to show he himself does but it is so off in timing that it has the opposite effect and almost makes him look as if he too cannot even fathom how horrible this was and what the timing should be for reaching out and has the same lack of understanding his son seems to lack. This is not apologizing for some misdemeanor! There is no way they have even grieved Denise and James imo. A crime does not allow you to do that and Jayme was missing. Even with her back it, imho, will take justice before they can even process it all and truly grieve. When the sister said James and Denise would not be at rest until Jayme was home or found, that is so very true. I also believe until justice is served, the process is and can be halted with regard to grief and processing. In some cases, justice is not served, and that has to be so very difficult for people that experience that.

He may mean well but the timing is hard to understand. Be there at court for your son if you feel that need. Wait on anything else. There are no words--there is no apology--there is no changing it or fixing it--for sure not at this time...

However, I will end this with saying that he has not defended the actions of his son and it takes a bit of guts to be there in the storm of public opinion against your son.

jmho and only mine.

Why show up at the hearings?

 

[ilovechili]

Why show up at the hearings?

You know, I get what you mean on this. And without getting into too much detail, I can say I have seen the opposite. Where a perp has no one and no family present. And then all say he had no one that cared and that is how he ended up that way...? Could that be part of the reason? Trying to show he did have a family that "cared"? Or guilt? I don't know but it does take some guts, so many people care how they look to others and will not get involved...

I am so back and forth on this and I readily admit it.

His timing and sentiments are wrong. I feel. PPs I mean.

I can only think of TWO reasons to show up at the hearings. One is support of your son if not endorsement of anything he did and to show they care. The other would be a hope he would not involve them or say they knew and that is very far fetched based on the facts we know.

The showing up is not going to help him get any better sentence nor get off of the charges so I would guess it is support or guilt or both. I have no idea.

We do have dad's house, sister's car, brother's example. A feeling of guilt?

I do not know, I just know how many people would not show their faces if the thought it could affect their life being on a very unpopular side of the room--and I feel that is more what mom is doing.

Then I feel guilty for judging. But that is just me and who I am...

 

[human]

You know, I get what you mean on this. And without getting into too much detail, I can say I have seen the opposite. Where a perp has no one and no family present. And then all say he had no one that cared and that is how he ended up that way...? Could that be part of the reason? Trying to show he did have a family that "cared"? Or guilt? I don't know but it does take some guts, so many people care how they look to others and will not get involved...

I am so back and forth on this and I readily admit it.

His timing and sentiments are wrong. I feel. PPs I mean.

I can only think of TWO reasons to show up at the hearings. One is support of your son if not endorsement of anything he did and to show they care. The other would be a hope he would not involve them or say they knew and that is very far fetched based on the facts we know.

The showing up is not going to help him get any better sentence nor get off of the charges so I would guess it is support or guilt or both. I have no idea.

We do have dad's house, sister's car, brother's example. A feeling of guilt?

I do not know, I just know how many people would not show their faces if the thought it could affect their life being on a very unpopular side of the room--and I feel that is more what mom is doing.

Then I feel guilty for judging. But that is just me and who I am...

I don’t feel guilty for judging.

I feel the Closs’s have enough pain without looking at more Patterson’s. Knowing they were in the very house where Jayme was held captive. (Not that they knew)

It is a few mins. Stay home. It has to be so painful to see them all

 

[ilovechili]

I don’t feel guilty for judging.

I feel the Closs’s have enough pain without looking at more Patterson’s. Knowing they were in the very house where Jayme was held captive. (Not that they knew)

It is a few mins. Stay home. It has to be so painful to see them all

I like your posts and views. You can go there and do not second guess. I at a restaurant when ordering, second guess then wish I had what the other person ordered and ideally I would have both and shared. lol. Libra thing.

I agree with everything you said here. I still, although I know it will be unpopular, wonder that this family never picked up on anything with JP and JC being in the home.... I still, although it may be unpopular, wonder about many things.

I recognize that is just me. I pick apart, I pick up on different versions of things, and I feel we never get the answers. Some are happy with the answers they have, I still have questions.

I guess I will add that a 21 year old is a baby to most parents and he was the true youngest in this family as well. We think they can take care of themselves somewhat at 14, 16, 18, 21 and it may be the worst years to think even with older siblings in the home finally, I do not need day care or a babysitter, but hindsight is a funny thing. If he had not confessed, I could see denial to a point. But he did confess. I would hope and think they know he is going away for a long, long time. I do believe they have their own grief, it is not an intentional killing of himself but to his parents, in a way he has died and lost his life but he did it to himself and he gave the Closs parents no choice and killed them, his prison sentence in a way will be his death to his family, his life is over in many ways at 21. His parents and siblings are in a similar way grieving--yet he brought it on himself and on them. Maybe showing up and showing tears and regret, etc. is all they can do for him. And guilt, whether deserved or not, most of us with empathy and the range of emotions feel guilt, again whether deserved or not and ask what we could have done differently.

Although here is my Libra turnaround, NOT being present would show to the Closs family they know what he did, it is not okay, and that we won't add to it by making you see us here supporting him and sitting here in the courtroom, there is no explanation, there is no reason and he does not have our support.

Longwinded again. I guess I just do not know...

Edited to correct a sentence and clarify it.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Just because one might love their children (however old those 'children' may be), and support them through whatever happens in their lives, doesn't necessarily mean forgiveness either. But in reality, what is one to do if their young adult offspring commits such a crime? Simply dump them, stay in the house, and hope the media and public don't blame the parents too?

To the people who believe JP's dad is wrong in the little he has done to date (possibly mouthing/whispering 'I love you' to his son as he's led away, offering sympathy and apology to the victim family, saying very very little to media other than to pray for the victims, showing up at his son's court appearance(s) supported by other immediate family members, anything else?)... I'd be interested in hearing how you believe you would react if your 21 year old son committed such a crime.

I would hate what he had done and still love my child and support him, just not his crime.

 

[Doghairrules]

I would hate what he had done and still love my child and support him, not his crime,

And honestly, (and again), this is so Refreshing after the Watts fiasco, I’m willing to give dad a pass. It’s not like there are rules of etiquette for how to behave in this situation. I think he is doing the best he can in a very stressful situation.

 

[ilovechili]

I would hate what he had done and still love my child and support him, just not his crime.

That is kind of where I am at. I love you no matter what, but I in no way comprehend nor endorse your actions and do not understand them nor ever likely will.

I also feel it may be well meaning possibly but do not think you can even begin to comprehend the devastation your son caused to the victims' family.

 

[Gardener1850]

Just watched a reporter who was in the court room say when JP came into the courtroom his father yelled out to him prompting JP's smile. As he exited his father again yelled out, we love you, which prompted that smile.

Where is the source that says they hollered, yelled, or said anything loudly?

I searched the thread and the above post is apparently where I saw it reported his father "yelled" in court. Maybe @heartgoesout can recall which reporter said that? Perhaps that was the only reporter to use the word yell because now I'm not finding other reports that he "yelled" the words.

 

[sumzero]

And honestly, (and again), this is so Refreshing after the Watts fiasco, I’m willing to give dad a pass. It’s not like there are rules of etiquette for how to behave in this situation. I think he is doing the best he can in a very stressful situation.

I agree. Nothing suggests the Closses object to seeing the Pattersons sitting in court. None of them have expressed contempt for Pattersons. I doubt the Closses are taking the basic support the Pattersons offer to Jake as some kind of personal affront. JMO, of course.

 

[Springb16]

And honestly, (and again), this is so Refreshing after the Watts fiasco, I’m willing to give dad a pass. It’s not like there are rules of etiquette for how to behave in this situation. I think he is doing the best he can in a very stressful situation.

I agree. Nothing suggests the Closses object to seeing the Pattersons sitting in court. None of them have expressed contempt for Pattersons. I doubt the Closses are taking the basic support the Pattersons offer to Jake as some kind of personal affront. JMO, of course.

I agree 100%.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

And honestly, (and again), this is so Refreshing after the Watts fiasco, I’m willing to give dad a pass. It’s not like there are rules of etiquette for how to behave in this situation. I think he is doing the best he can in a very stressful situation.

Thank you and hopefully I, or no one close to me ever has to decide which etiquette best suits them. This saying is so true for ME.



"No one has the right to judge anyone for their mistakes unless they themselves have lived the life of a saint, empathy is putting yourself in someone else's shoes, and showing a little compassion."

 

[MemPat]

You know, I get what you mean on this. And without getting into too much detail, I can say I have seen the opposite. Where a perp has no one and no family present. And then all say he had no one that cared and that is how he ended up that way...? Could that be part of the reason? Trying to show he did have a family that "cared"? Or guilt? I don't know but it does take some guts, so many people care how they look to others and will not get involved...

I am so back and forth on this and I readily admit it.

His timing and sentiments are wrong. I feel. PPs I mean.

I can only think of TWO reasons to show up at the hearings. One is support of your son if not endorsement of anything he did and to show they care. The other would be a hope he would not involve them or say they knew and that is very far fetched based on the facts we know.

The showing up is not going to help him get any better sentence nor get off of the charges so I would guess it is support or guilt or both. I have no idea.

We do have dad's house, sister's car, brother's example. A feeling of guilt?

I do not know, I just know how many people would not show their faces if the thought it could affect their life being on a very unpopular side of the room--and I feel that is more what mom is doing.

Then I feel guilty for judging. But that is just me and who I am...

As a parent I can think of many things my child could do that would upset and appall me. Those would certainly include the horrible crimes done by JP but I can't think of any circumstances where I wouldn't show up for her. I can't think of a time I wouldn't tell her I love her given the opportunity. I would visit every chance I got and try to help her examine where she went wrong and repent for her crimes. In this case I would expect her to pay the price and stay in jail for life but I would want to help her live the best life she could under those circumstances and hope that she would ask God and her victims' forgiveness......but that's just me.

 

[MemPat]

Thank you and hopefully I, or no one close to me ever has to decide which etiquette best suits them. This saying is so true for ME.



"No one has the right to judge anyone for their mistakes unless they themselves have lived the life of a saint, empathy is putting yourself in someone else's shoes, and showing a little compassion."

Amen.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

The judge was in the room prior to when that occurred and told everyone to be seated if I recall correctly. You do not yell out in a court proceeding in my experience or expect to be silenced and warned at minimum that you may be asked to leave. I guess with this being national and televised and an intensely emotional case, it was let go if it truly occurred. I never heard it on watching any of the videos.

To allow this, then the other family should be able to yell out as well and show support for Jayme and her parents. We saw the rules on the door and it seemed to say otherwise... I guess he was cut a break.

Not meant against him, just saying, I think he should refrain from doing that.

I would not want to be in his/their shoes but I did not feel it to be the best choice. But who am I to judge I guess...? It just goes against any courtroom protocol I have ever seen... Mouthing it is one thing, yelling it is another...

Nobody yelled it. In fact, it took awhile to find out it even happened. I believe one reporter saw them mouth, “we love you” to him, and that’s when he smiled. In fact, people thought he was smirking until we found out his smile came from this exchange that could not be heard.

People seem to be getting a little carried away in here.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

RSBM

I hate when things get twisted too, but the media seem to always do that. This is the first time I have heard that he 'yelled' I love you.. I was listening too.. we likely didn't hear it because it didn't happen that way.

I haven’t seen it in any media. All I have seen is a poster claiming it here the other day and then a bunch of people jumped on the bandwagon.

I didn’t think that’s what we do here at WS. I thought we were evidence-based.

 

[JenniD]

I too think this started with one of the P family mouthing the words I love you to JP and as media often does it escalated from there. Originally I thought it was his sister and not his father but who knows. I think as a parent you would be in court-maybe not even to support your child-but you would just be there. I have a grandson just a little younger than JP that is the love of my life and I try to imagine if he were to have done something as horrendous as JP has done. I would still love him but would make it very clear to him that this was wrong-his doing and he needs to be accountable for his actions-but I would be in court
I am struggling to understand why his father is being scrutinized so much. I truly believe he is devastated by his sons actions and there is Nothing he can do He has not once voiced any support for JP and just the opposite. He asked for prayers for Jayme and her family-not for his own
When Mollie Tibbets murderer was in court his aunt, uncle and baby mama were there but I don’t recall much said about them even when they said what a nice guy he was Bailey Boswells grandmother told her she loved her in open court after her granddaughter allegedly dismembered Sydney Loofe and discarded her body parts in garbage bags
So I ask this with all sincerity-what should JP’s father do.

 

[human]

I too think this started with one of the P family mouthing the words I love you to JP and as media often does it escalated from there. Originally I thought it was his sister and not his father but who knows. I think as a parent you would be in court-maybe not even to support your child-but you would just be there. I have a grandson just a little younger than JP that is the love of my life and I try to imagine if he were to have done something as horrendous as JP has done. I would still love him but would make it very clear to him that this was wrong-his doing and he needs to be accountable for his actions-but I would be in court
I am struggling to understand why his father is being scrutinized so much. I truly believe he is devastated by his sons actions and there is Nothing he can do He has not once voiced any support for JP and just the opposite. He asked for prayers for Jayme and her family-not for his own
When Mollie Tibbets murderer was in court his aunt, uncle and baby mama were there but I don’t recall much said about them even when they said what a nice guy he was Bailey Boswells grandmother told her she loved her in open court after her granddaughter allegedly dismembered Sydney Loofe and discarded her body parts in garbage bags
So I ask this with all sincerity-what should JP’s father do.

Stay home and visit JP in jail

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I agree. Nothing suggests the Closses object to seeing the Pattersons sitting in court. None of them have expressed contempt for Pattersons. I doubt the Closses are taking the basic support the Pattersons offer to Jake as some kind of personal affront. JMO, of course.

Photo #6 in this article shows JC's aunt LC sitting next to her husband who is sitting on the right of PP at the hearing. So hopefully there is no tension between the families.

Jake Patterson, accused of abducting Jayme Closs, makes first appearance in courtroom