Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #43

[Irmese]

OK, sure. But there’s no reason to think LE failed to Mirandize him, is there?

As I understand it, when they stopped him, he blurted out, "I did it." He was not arrested yet, was not yet being questioned, was not yet informed of his rights.

 

[ilovechili]

RSBM, BBM
Just wanted to address this. Confessions get thrown out/ challenged all the time and IIRC he entered a not guilty plea so he'll go to trial. I fear a motion to exclude the confession once the discovery process begins.
That leaves hard forensic evidence including electronics. I hope they have that.
Please don't put JC on the witness stand.

ETA:
Lawyers for suspect in Jayme Closs case doubt chances of fair trial in state – Twin Cities

I too have had that thought but only voiced it once that I can recall. I have not wanted to go there but I also feel the only real chance for a defense is to challenge the confession. Without going into too much detail, his willingness and eagerness apparently to confess and the way it lines up with everything in the media and online, etc. has always bothered me. I cannot say I have a legitimate reason or any knowledge, just a feeling that nags at me from what we do know...

If challenging the confession works or it is thrown out, they are then open to all sorts of scenarios imho. They could say someone else made him do it, there were others involved, you name it, come up with whatever scenario they might feel would work... Or just the fact there is not enough evidence without the confession (I sure hope not).

As you state, if the confession goes away, I would hope there is enough other evidence. Otherwise it will turn into a he said/she said and she will be the key witness and have to take the stand for any hope of conviction.

I do not think, however, that he has yet entered a not guilty plea. I think that happens at the arraignment in March? He waived the preliminary and the plea will be at the arraignment?

I hope he just pleads guilty and takes the subsequent sentencing--for her sake. Probably unlikely though...

 

[ilovechili]

I would surprised if the defense didn't try to get the confession tossed. But, he also made the confession "I did it" as he was being arrested up in Gordon. So, IMO he had two distinct admissions of guilt and I believe that is going to be impossible honestly IMO.

LE has 'boxes of evidence" as per their statement. The gun used to kill JC & DC, the car and physical evidence gathered from it, ie Jayme in the trunk, etc. I agree having to have Jayme testify would be horrible and traumatic, but if it put the murderer of her dearly loved parents behind bars for LWOP, I believe she'd rise up again and be able to stand for them.

JMO

I hope you are right, and he did confess.

I do not know exactly how it works but I worry that if they find or can prove parts of his confession are false, then how can anyone trust any of it? This would be a place for an attorney to weigh in...

Jurors are likely to want both forensic/physical evidence and the confession, etc. I hope they have it all and a slam dunk case.

If she has to testify, I agree with you, I believe and think she would for her parents. This would still not be a Gordon detail type testimony, just the Barron charges. She got herself out of there and that took a lot of will and facing probably a ton of fear if he caught her. If she has to testify, she will have a lot of support and she may always hold close to her heart that she testified for her parents. It will not be easy but one thing they have you do is look right at someone you trust, often a victim/witness advocate and not at him. But some relish the moment to show they did not destroy them and will look right at the defendant which I would imagine can be very empowering and freeing.

Here I am, you did not destroy me. When I get off this stand, I am leaving this room and can do as I wish and may go out for a steak while you leave this room and head back to your cell.

Just an attempt at brightness/a bit of lightness, she is but a child and it will be very hard, I cannot imagine.

One final thought--if it comes to it and if for any reason this confession is challenged, etc., and unlikely, but if for any reason they succeeed, there are still other charges that can be brought in Douglas County and more evidence and probably forensic evidence as well.

The defense is fighting a major uphill battle.

imho.

 

[sumzero]

As I understand it, when they stopped him, he blurted out, "I did it." He was not arrested yet, was not yet being questioned, was not yet informed of his rights.

He obviously made a lengthy statement later, divulging the particulars of the crime. Don’t you think these LE officers Mirandized him before he sat down for this interview?

 

[ilovechili]

Agree 1000 percent.

Jake only talks to roughly 5 people on planet earth...it’s gonna take 2 of them or more to convince him to plead out... make it easier on closs family... help us out and we will visit.

On some level JP has to know if they go to trial and go over crime in detail.... what compassion love he has gotten will be lessened....

If he commits crime right after family event that upset him.. probably weird for JP, also emails/text to mom dad have to make him look like sociopath..

I hope no trial, and can’t see it, unless he’s just really detached, and would prefer additional chaos even if it hurts his own family.

I go both ways. Some feel he wants a trial for the attention and that is possible.

On the other hand, I feel it very likely because quite honestly what does he have to lose? He/they (the defense) may as well give it a try. The only thing he can maybe gain by not going to trial is he looks like he is not putting JC through it, he may be able to negotiate something like where he spends his time in prison, and a few other probably minor things.

But there are still other charges that can be likely brought so maybe the prosecution has more of the bargaining chips/big advantage... Plead guilty or we will file these additional charges...?

One of the attorneys on here can probably weigh in on that and tell us more...

 

[ilovechili]

The confessions worry me. I think they were given before he was Mirandized.

I am one of the worst at being able to go back and find links but I am pretty sure he was mirandized. When he was pulled over on the road, probably not when he said "I did it" but before the further confession I believe he was. I think it may state it in the complaint if I recall correctly?

I know I did read it. And hopefully he was. I just do not see any LE officer or investigator not doing this... Isn't it 101?

 

[girlhasnoname]

I go both ways. Some feel he wants a trial for the attention and that is possible.

On the other hand, I feel it very likely because quite honestly what does he have to lose? He/they (the defense) may as well give it a try. The only thing he can maybe gain by not going to trial is he looks like he is not putting JC through it, he may be able to negotiate something like where he spends his time in prison, and a few other probably minor things.

But there are still other charges that can be likely brought so maybe the prosecution has more of the bargaining chips/big advantage... Plead guilty or we will file these additional charges...?

One of the attorneys on here can probably weigh in on that and tell us more...

I feel the same about whether JP pleas or not. He's still an enigma to me.

<modsnip>

 

[girlhasnoname]

As I understand it, when they stopped him, he blurted out, "I did it." He was not arrested yet, was not yet being questioned, was not yet informed of his rights.

He was interviewed formally the second time though.

 

[PommyMommy]

I am one of the worst at being able to go back and find links but I am pretty sure he was mirandized. When he was pulled over on the road, probably not when he said "I did it" but before the further confession I believe he was. I think it may state it in the complaint if I recall correctly?

I know I did read it. And hopefully he was. I just do not see any LE officer or investigator not doing this... Isn't it 101?

Yes, page 7.

"Detective Nelson reports he read the defendant his Miranda rights. The defendant stated he understood his rights and was willing to speak with Detective Nelson and Special Agent Welsch."

 

[ilovechili]

I feel the same about whether JP pleas or not. He's still an enigma to me.

<modsnip>

<modsnip>

I agree re JP, I do not know if we will ever be able to wrap our heads around his thinking.

 

[ilovechili]

Yes, page 7.

"Detective Nelson reports he read the defendant his Miranda rights. The defendant stated he understood his rights and was willing to speak with Detective Nelson and Special Agent Welsch."

I thought so. I am terrible at going back and finding things and you are the best at it. Thank YOU Pommy.

I do not say it enough. I do not know how you find the time to do all that you do here.

Mirandizing is LE 101 right? It would also be recorded both video and voice I would be pretty sure, the entire interview.

 

[PommyMommy]

I thought so. I am terrible at going back and finding things and you are the best at it. Thank YOU Pommy.

I do not say it enough. I do not know how you find the time to do all that you do here.

Mirandizing is LE 101 right? It would also be recorded both video and voice I would be pretty sure, the entire interview.

Thank you for your kind words. I have robots in my basement that I pay with homemade pies.

I am hoping that, in time, we get to see his video interview.

MOO

 

[fmcphie]

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...d504489dc541e820518/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

Criminal complaint if you haven't read it. I wasn't sure if it was already posted.

 

[SeekingJana]

I personally don't think any one of the Closs family members would succumb to pressure for anything less than LWOP. That may seem like a broad brushstroke, but they lost a brother and a sister in the most horrific way imaginable to me <and in front of their own child> and have now seen up close and personal the trauma JP inflicted on Jayme for 88 days. I just don't think they'd want to risk him having any shot at parole.

OTOH, if Jayme should express a distinctly negative response to testifying or if it might jeopardize her physical or mental state, perhaps they would consider something.

LWOP is the only sentence which fits the severity of the crimes, so many of which we likely will never know. ( I hope).

 

[fmcphie]

Yes, page 7.

"Detective Nelson reports he read the defendant his Miranda rights. The defendant stated he understood his rights and was willing to speak with Detective Nelson and Special Agent Welsch."

He does not have to be mirandized for the statement "I did it", to be allowed in as evidence. It is considered an excited utterence. Which means the person has stated something in regard to a crime or criminal act in which they are not being questioned about. Once a person is detained and a direct line of questioning is conducted in regards to a crime or criminal act then the officer must mirandize the person in order for the statements to be admissable in court.

 

[MassGuy]

He does not have to be mirandized for the statement "I did it", to be allowed in as evidence. It is considered an excited utterence. Which means the person has stated something in regard to a crime or criminal act in which they are not being questioned about. Once a person is detained and a direct line of questioning is conducted in regards to a crime or criminal act then the officer must mirandize the person in order for the statements to be admissable in court.

Exactly.

Ironically, the “excited utterance” and Mirandized confession, are the least of what he is up against.

Normally, something like that is gold.

In this case though, they have overwhelming evidence, not the least of which is Jayme herself.

 

[Jim_M]

Thank you for your kind words. I have robots in my basement that I pay with homemade pies.

I am hoping that, in time, we get to see his video interview.

MOO

I saw them! I visualized you having robots! You really are amazing with the details. And they do appear to be at your fingertips in blazing speeds (Ditto on video interview!)

 

[Irmese]

He was interviewed formally the second time though.

Good. I hope there is no technicality that he can wiggle out with.

 

[Irmese]

Exactly.

Ironically, the “excited utterance” and Mirandized confession, are the least of what he is up against.

Normally, something like that is gold.

In this case though, they have overwhelming evidence, not the least of which is Jayme herself.

I hope you are right.

 

[MassGuy]

I hope you are right.

I have never been more sure about anything in my life.

The only thing I’m unsure of, is if this will ultimately go to trial. It won’t matter in terms of how this ends though.

JP will die in prison.