AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #11

[SharonNeedles]

I’m pretty sure I read this account a couple of days ago on a FB group...although I think part of the original story (from FB) is missing. I’m not sure how much credence to put into this story.

I think the jist of it sounds legit: somebody at a gas station said something creepy to a stranger. It retrospect now it seems possibly more significant than it really was.

 

[cluciano63]

The recent sad case of the teacher in Maine, who disappeared, Kristin Westra, suicide, was found by kids in an area supposedly checked very well by dogs and searchers! I do wonder if she is nearby in the woods.

There have been a number of cases where dogs, searchers and LE have missed finding bodies. One, years back, was on her own land and was not found for a year. Another just a few hundred yards from home, took months until she was found. And others.

 

[HarvestMoon]

The more I think about this and talk about it with my husband, the more I think the purpose was to attack/assault Denise. So 25 minutes is not that long if you view it in that context. Perhaps raping/beating Denise, subduing Jayme? And maybe it would've gone on longer if one of them hadn't gotten a hold of a phone and dialed 911.

Just don't think Denise was the target. Why go after her in the middle of the night with her husband and Jayme both there?

 

[MesquiteO21]

Wonderfully paraphrased. I didn’t see the interview but will comment on your excellent post. There may have been a reason for the suspect to believe Denise and Jayme were home alone. Regardless of this the suspect quickly encountered James and the plans were thrown off. The target may have been Denise and the perpetrator was someone James recognized. He was killed to clear the path to Denise. I would agree that in crimes of intense passion or anger “overkill” can occur. Depending on the nature of Denise’s wounds we may see this.

I agree that in 2018 with the current technology, so many vehicles and owners have already been eliminated. I think the search will slow here unfortunately.

It may be that a possible motive has slightly formed for the investigators and they surmise Jamey is no longer alive but of course can’t say for sure so they keep hope alive

I do think it'll be interesting if we ever find out that James had one or two gunshot wounds and Denise had a whole lot more...

 

[cluciano63]

Mom could have been taken, or killed, elsewhere. The perp did not need to charge into the house in the middle of the night. But for Jayme, he would need to get her from home.

 

[DocBrew]

Who's to say that victims/perps weren't hanging out watching Sunday night football and then things got out of hand?

 

[BB71]

Gun. Clothing. Anything with blood on it.

Not sure if Jayme owns a phone, but if she does I'm sure they have the records at this point.

One of the photos had an older model phone sitting on table right in front of Jayme.

 

[Lillymac]

The site is challenging tonight, so I hope this posts correctly. Also, I believe I read that we can use Radar here, if not, please delete. I just found this article, take it as you wish.


“The FBI asked my mom if she can what his voice sounded like,” Schrunk continued. Her mother noticed a dark colored SUV parked next to hers with a second man inside when the man noted: “Oh. Don’t worry about him.”


"According to Schrunk, a local tipped her off on who her mother might’ve seen and showed her a photo of the car they drive. “Based on the vehicle she sent me, I’m even more certain now because my mom said that is the vehicle.”


"One of the individuals lives close by the Closs residence, surrounded by woods and farmland. The property was in the vicinity of the search led by police and countless volunteers today. The second individual resides in a trailer park – Radar broke the news, the FBI vivisited a trailer park just days after intervening in the case."

Jayme Closs Case Break: Police Receive Chilling Tip Conversation With Strange Man

The site is challenging tonight, so I hope this posts correctly. Also, I believe I read that we can use Radar here, if not, please delete. I just found this article, take it as you wish.


“The FBI asked my mom if she can remember what his voice sounded like,” Schrunk continued. Her mother noticed a dark colored SUV parked next to hers with a second man inside when the man noted: “Oh. Don’t worry about him.”


"According to Schrunk, a local tipped her off on who her mother might’ve seen and showed her a photo of the car they drive. “Based on the vehicle she sent me, I’m even more certain now because my mom said that is the vehicle.”


"One of the individuals lives close by the Closs residence, surrounded by woods and farmland. The property was in the vicinity of the search led by police and countless volunteers today. The second individual resides in a trailer park – Radar broke the news, the FBI vivisited a trailer park just days after intervening in the case."

Jayme Closs Case Break: Police Receive Chilling Tip Conversation With Strange Man

The site is challenging tonight, so I hope this posts correctly. Also, I believe I read that we can use Radar here, if not, please delete. I just found this article, take it as you wish.


“The FBI asked my mom if she can remember what his voice sounded like,” Schrunk continued. Her mother noticed a dark colored SUV parked next to hers with a second man inside when the man noted: “Oh. Don’t worry about him.”


"According to Schrunk, a local tipped her off on who her mother might’ve seen and showed her a photo of the car they drive. “Based on the vehicle she sent me, I’m even more certain now because my mom said that is the vehicle.”


"One of the individuals lives close by the Closs residence, surrounded by woods and farmland. The property was in the vicinity of the search led by police and countless volunteers today. The second individual resides in a trailer park – Radar broke the news, the FBI vivisited a trailer park just days after intervening in the case."

Jayme Closs Case Break: Police Receive Chilling Tip Conversation With Strange Man

Could there be a man's voice on the 911 call?

 

[cluciano63]

IF mom WAS in a bathroom...maybe she was already in there when she heard shots. And ran out into hall, i.e

But one never knows what one will do in a situation until it happens...even if she DID run in there to hide, it would have been a reflex, imo.

 

[NatalieSheild]

It’s probably been talked about already, but I just got off of work, but did the search turn up anything? I hear they were looking for anything and everything, which sounded like they didn’t know what they were looking for or where?

 

[Elizabeth Lavenza]

Agree. I was thinking the gun blast might have knocked him backwards. IMO (and so sorry for the harsh mental image that could cause)

 

[WillenFan21]

I believe they initially thought suicide because they saw the dad dead at the door, probably with a fatal wound to the head.

I'm starting to think a sexual assault could have occurred between the shots and the 911 call.

Yep that's what I said. I think that's the reason there was a time gap.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Mom could have been taken, or killed, elsewhere. The perp did not need to charge into the house in the middle of the night. But for Jayme, he would need to get her from home.

Well, not really. Even if the only way the assailant could think of was to storm the house in an armed assault it would be a heck of a lot safer to choose a time when Dad’s not home and Jayme likely isn’t back in a bedroom somewhere.

 

[Abba's Tears]

Like most technology, there are hazards and benefits to cell phones. Cell phones can be dangerous if the user is young and given too much freedom. We've all seen many examples of that. However it is difficult to avoid allowing teenagers access to what is as common these days as owning a bicycle or a computer. IMO it's not realistic to expect them to never have a cell phone. Part of the deal at my house is the use of an app that allows me to see where my daughters are. It also tracks their driving habits; speeding, fast breaking, rapid exceleration, etc. They understand that the app is for one purpose only, and that is for their safety. Oh, and yes, they can see the same things about me.

 

[RoiPD86]

We have shots around 12:30. Probably the door being kicked open, too. Then it goes over 20 minutes before the 911 call. We gather there’s arguing at that point and I doubt the preceeding 20 minutes were much different. The intruder had to know the shots could have been heard and reported. The intruder had a gun so what went on for 20 minutes? What was up for discussion rather than just being taken?

Great point and I know many of us here have these thoughts. I do believe there was much to be discussed and the perps knew the victims. Even if it was a long time since they had met up in person. Nobody commits a burglary, ends up shooting victims, and then takes their sweet time leaving the scene. After two adults had been murdered how much work would it be to abduct and control a 100lb 13 yr old female? This hinges on my assessment that this was an adult male suspect or suspects. But even for a less than tactically inclined killer, would it take so long? Also the longer the commission of the Crime the higher likelihood something of evidentiary value was left behind. Even if the police do not know yet. IMO highly personal crime thus lengthy and much was said.

 

[Inthedetails]

IF mom WAS in a bathroom...maybe she was already in there when she heard shots. And ran out into hall, i.e

But one never knows what one will do in a situation until it happens...even if she DID run in there to hide, it would have been a reflex, imo.

Running to the bathroom could have been a way to protect Jayme. Mamma animals run in the opposite direction of their young when a predator is nearby. Perhaps Denise was reacting the same way - to get the perp to chase her, not find Jayme, and perhaps in the hope Jayme could run away.

Total speculation. jmo

 

[MassGuy]

Who's to say that victims/perps weren't hanging out watching Sunday night football and then things got out of hand?

That kicked in door hurts that theory. Plus, that game was over a good hour before the gunshots were heard.

Edit* 2 hours.

 

[sumzero]

A common theme in theories like this is that the assailant(s) would leave when they got what they came for or were interrupted. I’ve got to agree that makes sense, but if the first shots were fired at 12:31 and door was breached / dad was killed at that time, what could they have possibly been after that they still didn’t have 25 minutes later? If that line of thinking is correct, the objective had to center on Denise. But that makes no sense either.

Well, if Denise had come to the door first, been shot, and then her husband shot a short while later, would we assume the husband was the ultimate target? Who knows? Why was James at the door? Did someone knock? Were the lights out and he heard some noise outside so he got out of bed to investigate? The sheriff said yesterday that they still didn’t know what transpired inside that house. Nor do we. :\

 

[kebdal23]

JMO. Just speculating on something I hadn’t thought of before. What if dad was shot right away and mom AND Jayme barricaded themselves in the bathroom? Maybe they braced the door lock by sitting on the ground with their legs locked and it took perp time (and bullets, some of them which hit the mom thru the door) to break into the bathroom? Speculation only.

 

[Alethea]

Flamboyant explanations to the contrary, I think Occam's Razor suggests that, when two parents are killed and their daughter is taken, the parents were killed in order to take the daughter.

Absolutely. Joseph Duncan, who murdered the Groene family in Idaho to kidnap little Shasta and Dylan blogged his life as a sex offender and continued to blog even after jail. He was found to have killed at least three other children (two girls in Seattle, one little boy in California) before massacring the Groenes. Given the attention that case attracted, I have been surprised there weren't more copycats.

It's absolutely heinous but it makes way more sense than thinking a run-of-the-mill criminal is going to casually take a 13 year old as his companion as he runs out of the house after committing an unrelated double homicide.

 

[bluesneakers]

There have been a number of cases where dogs, searchers and LE have missed finding bodies. One, years back, was on her own land and was not found for a year. Another just a few hundred yards from home, took months until she was found. And others.

Justin McKinnon-Blomme, 500 metres from where he was last seen, six months later. In a tree.
Countless others.