AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #14

[BB71]

Unfortunately, visualizing what is public about this case, leads me to agree with those suggesting the perp was very angry. Opportunistic, perhaps, but angry seems to fit more. Gutsy or nutsy to stick around 20 minutes after shooting someone. In those 20 minutes, thinking the worst, would be tormenting the mother. The worst torment after seeing her husband dead or dying would be to be forced to watch her daughter being harmed and/or being tortured herself. LE hasn't described if there were signs of a prolonged assault on the mother, or blood / dna of the perp, or that of JC. What was yelled? Who was screaming? Why these people? What gets someone this angry in the woods of Wisconsin?

Did dad kick door in? What size foot? When did dad leave work? Or casino? When was his last text?
Will we ever know?
Is car recovered in Osh Kosh, WI related?
Was it stolen?

 

[PommyMommy]

They probably got a lot of duplicate tips or tips that are not any help at all. If 20 people called in to say "Hey I think you should check all Registered Sex Offenders" without any more detail those tips get "closed" pretty fast. It's SOP that they already checked the RSO's in the area. If several people call and name a specific RSO that they already investigated and cleared the tips also would be "cleared". And I bet they got hundreds of calls about the Dodge Charger parked at Jennie-O. The Sheriff said on Ashley Banfield that was not the specific Dodge Charge they are looking for. They are still looking for those vehicles. They need someone to call in with specific knowledge of a specific person acting unusual. A name they have never heard could break this wide open at any time. JMO.

Yes, in addition to the vehicles, a good reminder:

Throughout the investigation and search, Fitzgerald has asked that anyone report suspicious activity, including odd changes in the behavior of people you know.

“People may act differently shortly after committing a violent act. You may have observed such behaviors and not realized it at the time,” Fitzgerald said. We are asking you to think back to earlier this week and let us know if you’ve noticed any of the following.”

Changes in Routine:
• They will miss work. The absence will be sudden and unplanned. They may either be a “no show” or they may offer a reasonable excuse such as illness, death in the family, car trouble, etc.

• They may miss scheduled appointments. These appointments or commitments may include medical appointments, a regular responsibility to a friend or family member, like caring for an elderly relative.

• They may suddenly leave town, either with no explanation or with some reasonable explanation.

Changes in Normal Behavior:
• There may be changes in their usual consumption of alcohol and/or drugs. This could be an increase or a decrease in drinking or drug use.

• They may make a change in how they look or make it difficult to identify them, such as changing the look of their vehicle or selling or getting rid of their vehicle.

• They may pay too much or too little attention to the progress of this investigation that seems out of the ordinary. They may try to find new information about the investigation or, they may quickly turn off the news and social media or try to redirect conversations about the victims or their families.

• They may be anxious, nervous, or irritable. They may withdraw from normal activities.

Fitzgerald also asked those who knew the Closs family, or interacted with them in the last few days, to reach out.

“If you spent time with members of the Closs family recently, or if you have ever had a misunderstanding with members of the Closs family, or know someone who has, please call the tipline,” he urged.
Sheriff asks public to report suspicious activity, behavior

 

[Jethro4WS]

I just don't understand why LE did not include the time period before the crime took place to ask for information from anyone who was driving by at the time. Why 12:30 when he could have been spotted 10 or 15 minutes before arriving at the house? Wouldn't they want information about seeing a vehicle or something strange when he was on the way to the house?

They asked for anyone driving along US 8 in either direction between 12:30am and 1:30am. They gave a range.

 

[MassGuy]

I’m really leaning towards two perps. How easy would it be to subdue three people, even if you had a gun? This is assuming you kept them alive for any amount of time as opposed to killing right away. Dad and Mom most likely would’ve fought, especially with their sleeping child in another room. The biggest confusion I have, is why they didn’t kill Jayme in the home. Sex trafficking doesn’t make sense to me, this is too messy and high profile. Mistaken identity of a drug house doesn’t make sense to me because why wouldn’t you just bolt when you realized upon entering that it obviously wasn’t a drug den? I am just baffled honestly.
Maybe the primary motive was sexual assault and it got interrupted by dad, which caused things to go even further south? This is all so messed up and heartbreaking. As much as I hate to say this, and how sick in makes me feel in my stomach, I’m almost hoping that assault was their reasoning in taking Jayme. I think that gives her the best chance of still being alive. I really hope LE catches these horrible people.

This very well may involve two or more perps, but it’s not a requirement.

A man with a gun can quite easily gain control of a family, especially if this guy did shoot James right away, as it appears.

 

[Gardener1850]

I wondered about why their first impression would be suicide, especially since they found his body in the doorway, and no gun.
The only scenario I have come up with is a gunshot wound to the head would appear as a suicide.
But then I’ve thought that’s a pretty tight area around the door for a rifle or shotgun initially. And then thought possibly he was shot twice. Once to gain entry and then once again.

BBM. I have wondered about that as well. Perhaps the perp shot both parents in the head as he left to make sure they did not survive? TK did that in the Superbike murders. He took everyone down first, then he went back and shot each victim once in the head to makes sure they were dead. That detail wasn't released to the press and it was the detail that TK told in his confession that had LE believing he was responsible. Not sure if the perp had time to do that, but it would make a clear head wound that would look like suicide at first glance. JMO.

 

[cluciano63]

I doubt the LEO had examined the wound when briefly thinking he had a suicide...more likely, just saw one body and jumped to a conclusion LE likely faces far more often than murder...

 

[lonetraveler]

I don’t think a house with one teen girl is filled with toys, drawings on fridge, etc...but I don’t have kids...

I totally agree. Today, IMO, thirteen year old girls don't play with Barbie and Ken and put crayon drawings on the fridge.

 

[BB71]

The 911 call had yelling, screaming, etc. There was an altercation. How long it lasted is anywhere from 1 minute to 20+ minutes.

Assuming neighbors heard both shots, how did a single killer get from the door to the bathroom in seconds? Officer stated multiple rounds were used to kill James.
So, there must have been more than two shots fired.

What LE knows:
- where the bodies were found
- how much blood
- what type of weapon used
- any fingerprints/DNA at the scene
- 911 call (which has surely been scrubbed to pick up any voices or background noise)
- phone records
- social media activity of the three Closs family members who lived in that house
- financial records of the three Closs family members who lived in that house


I don't think they have suspects or know what the motive was.

I think they know a lot. But they aren’t going to tip off their suspects by letting us in on their theories. If they don’t, they can come to WS...we have plenty of ideas!

 

[kkdj]

The 911 call had yelling, screaming, etc. There was an altercation. How long it lasted is anywhere from 1 minute to 20+ minutes.

The yelling could have been from one perp, giving orders. It was reported there was yelling, not how many voices were involved and what was heard from the 911 call that was for less than a minute. It said nothing about an altercation, argument, screaming, crying, etc. jmo

 

[CuriousMaine]

What I find odd about it being labeled possible suicide by “329” is why would that be his initial impression when he found the door open? Who suicides with the door open? I realize this is totally irrelevant to the fact that Jayme is missing, but it seems to be the topic of the day.

I can think of a possible, not far-fetched scenario that may have been in the cops experiential memory from prior domestic calls: The cop(s) approach not knowing the resident's marital status, etc. They considered possibility of estranged marriage, separated, divorced, ex boy/girlfriend situation, etc.; man moves out; they argue on the phone; man shows up woman won't let him in; he kicks door in, kills woman then himself.

***NOTE***
This is NOT what I think happened. I'm saying police answer domestic calls all the time. Seeing a man inside the door, even with the door kicked in, initially they may have considered the possibility he committed suicide in a domestic violence attack. Reporting the man as a possible suicide, not yet knowing if the wife/girlfriend/whoever called 911/etc. is hiding or a homicide victim. Part of investigating is following evidence. I'm sure statistics and Occam's razor comes into play. I think it's plausible, until they ruled it out, that they considered it.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

My heart hurts for Jayme Her parents funerals are today & she is not able to be there to say good-bye.... RIP Mr. & Mrs. Closs Prayers & condolences to the families & friends & may LE find Jayme & serve Justice to those that have a part in this horrible crime MOO

 

[VeryVeritas]

This very well may involve two or more perps, but it’s not a requirement.

A man with a gun can quite easily gain control of a family, especially if this guy did shoot James right away, as it appears.

I also think this isn't their first kill.

 

[kkdj]

Assuming neighbors heard both shots, how did a single killer get from the door to the bathroom in seconds? Officer stated multiple rounds were used to kill James.
So, there must have been more than two shots fired.

I think they know a lot. But they aren’t going to tip off their suspects by letting us in on their theories. If they don’t, they can come to WS...we have plenty of ideas!

BBM
I must have missed this. James was shot more than once? I recall them saying multiple were spent, but that could be only two. I do not recall reading that James was shot multiple times.

 

[Mollyandme]

If they do not know the motive....as is my belief...it would impossible to create any sort of reliable profile...jmo

I agree. If they haven't figured that out or have a good idea of what the motive was then there are too many possible profiles.

 

[Alethea]

I’m really leaning towards two perps. How easy would it be to subdue three people, even if you had a gun? This is assuming you kept them alive for any amount of time as opposed to killing right away. Dad and Mom most likely would’ve fought, especially with their sleeping child in another room.

If this was a sexually violent predator, anything is possible. Joseph Duncan subdued a family of 5 including 2 adults and a large 13 year old boy with a hammer to kidnap Shasta and Dylan. They were bound and beat to death with a hammer. So I really do not put anything beyond these monsters these days.

 

[tmar]

New here. I also questioned why they assumed suicide. That struck me as so odd. Was it because LE does not imagine a murder happening, so they immediately think suicide? Or was it something they heard on 911 call that made them think this? Recently they said they could only make out the word "help" so I don't think the 911 call made them think suicide. The reason I bring up the suicide angle is that if LE thought they were going to a suicide call, they may not have noticed a car(s) leaving the scene and may have passed a car fleeing. 4 minutes to escape on those roads without being noticed made me think they escaped on foot and were maybe staying hidden nearby. But now that it is maybe 9 minutes, and town is not that far, I suppose a car(s) could get away without being noticed within 9 minutes.

Welcome MeJane.
Your first post.
Yes, they could have left the property, on foot, then perhaps to their hidden vehicle.

 

[VeryVeritas]

The yelling could have been from one perp, giving orders. It was reported there was yelling, not how many voices were involved and what was heard from the 911 call that was for less than a minute. It said nothing about an altercation, argument, screaming, crying, etc. jmo

I definitely read yelling and screaming in a public report about the 911 call. I don't make things up. Yelling, screaming calling 911, and murder is an altercation in my book.

 

[HarvestMoon]

I’m really leaning towards two perps. How easy would it be to subdue three people, even if you had a gun? This is assuming you kept them alive for any amount of time as opposed to killing right away. Dad and Mom most likely would’ve fought, especially with their sleeping child in another room. The biggest confusion I have, is why they didn’t kill Jayme in the home. Sex trafficking doesn’t make sense to me, this is too messy and high profile. Mistaken identity of a drug house doesn’t make sense to me because why wouldn’t you just bolt when you realized upon entering that it obviously wasn’t a drug den? I am just baffled honestly.
Maybe the primary motive was sexual assault and it got interrupted by dad, which caused things to go even further south? This is all so messed up and heartbreaking. As much as I hate to say this, and how sick in makes me feel in my stomach, I’m almost hoping that assault was their reasoning in taking Jayme. I think that gives her the best chance of still being alive. I really hope LE catches these horrible people.

Look at how many people Joseph Duncan took on when he kidnapped and murdered members of the Groene family- all by himself.

 

[VeryVeritas]

If this was a sexually violent predator, anything is possible. Joseph Duncan subdued a family of 5 including 2 adults and a large 13 year old boy with a hammer to kidnap Shasta and Dylan. They were bound and beat to death with a hammer. So I really do not put anything beyond these monsters these days.

<modsnip - remove double quote>
Is there anything in the public information that causes this to lean towards predatory abduction vs. Angry local? TIA

 

[cluciano63]

Is there anything in the public information that causes this to lean towards predatory abduction vs. Angry local? TIA

Taking a teen girl suggests a sexual motivation jmo...