AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #16

[MsBetsy]

Did Fitzgerald himself actually say they heard 'help' on the 911 call? Tia

I thought that came from a radar online article? I may be mistaken though. I was under the impression he wouldnt comment on what could be heard.

Imo

It originally came from WAEU13, a local news source. He was reported as saying the only word they could make out was "help", then days later he made the statement about not being able to answer the question. I think it was the first or second article, from the first day. It was linked here before, but I don't know how to do it myself.

 

[Amonet]

Older but good article about general kidnapping/abduction facts. From other things I've read, these still hold pretty true. The paragraph that I found most applies to Jayme's case is:

Reading through it, the scenario which has the most characteristic matches as Jayme's case is:

• 
  
  • Acquaintance kidnapping
  
  involves a comparatively high percentage of juvenile perpetrators, has the largest percentage of female and teenage victims, is more often associated with other crimes (especially sexual and physical assault), occurs at homes and residences, and has the highest percentage of injured victims. When acquaintance kidnappings end in murder, the murder happens quickly. According to a study by the Washington State Attorney General's Office, in 74 percent of missing-child homicides, the child is murdered within the first three hours of the abduction.

Aside from the last sentence giving me chills , unless this is a home invasion gone wrong, which still seems less likely, the known facts support that either Jayme knew her abductor, her abductor knew her or both. Still would be extremely surprised if this was a totally random robbery gone wrong.

The thing is that those will be mostly cases where the parents are not murdered in the abduction of the minor. The murder of the parents might change a lot. We've heard of a small number of cases where parents/relatives are murdered and a female minor is abducted and they seem to have different stats from other abductions, there seems to be more chance of the girl being kept alive for a while.

I feel there's a chance Jayme has been kept alive since the abduction. Whether she still is, or for how long she might be kept alive, I don't know. But I do believe the stats for 'regular' abductions are not going to be the same as for cases like this. There's still going to be a spectrum, just as in other cases, but I suspect that fewer abductees in cases like this will be murdered in the first 24-48 hours.

I think that this case doesn't stink of random or opportunistic, and that probably means that an abductor wants to 'possess' for a longer period.

 

[debirlfan]

I strongly agree with your last paragraph. I think there is something they have uncovered that they aren't telling the public for good reason that strongly points to her still being alive. I think that's why it seems they are dancing around the issue. Letting any part of that info slip might let the perp know they are onto him.

The only thing that I can come up with is that they think she might have escaped from the shooter/shooters, and be in hiding. If she can identify them - especially if it's someone that she knew and trusted, she might be afraid to return.

What if the perp was wearing a police uniform? (not that he was police, but that he appeared to be). She might be afraid to go to the police -- and the perp might still be looking for her.

Police might not want to say too much if they think she is hiding/someone is aiding her, for fear of leading the perp to her.

 

[andreww]

Emph. mine

Maybe Denise had a second job ?

Wait-- was this paid off after the murders ?
Maybe family members paid it off ?
Curious if there was a money trail to be followed involving the murders.

No, the judgment happened a while back, around 2012 if I recall correctly. Within a couple of weeks the court records showed that everything was settled.

 

[Amonet]

It is very interesting that the police don't seem to think the public is in danger with this person out there. I wonder if that means that they know it was actually personal and not random. We know the odds of it being random are not that high anyway but it makes me wonder if they have actual proof of that.

I seem to remember that one of the first things the sheriff said was to remind people to lock their doors at night and keep an eye on their properties and people around them?

Even in other cases they normally try to phrase it as that they don't think the public is at higher risk, but it's always a good idea to keep an eye on your children.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I understand that, but why wouldn't they check with family that is active in her life? The aunts? Cousins? Etc. Most of which also reside closer to Barron if not in Barron. It just seems weird to me. How would they even know to look there?? Sheriff said in his first PC that he knew nothing of this family, they had never been in trouble nor had he visited their home in the past. They delay in them stating JLC was missing makes me wonder if they even knew she was living there right away.

This is also the only thing I have in question at this point, everything has been addressed and has an explanation.

I am at a complete loss with this case. I agree with a previous post that it is probably right in from of our faces but we are focusing on other things.

I would normally assume that was indeed done first. That LE would start by contacting whatever family/friends they could determine, and then ask each of those people "who else is in their family, who else is in their circle of friends", and then proceed to track down and interview those named folks. Maybe the earlier contacts were made by phone so no official dispatching of anyone to a location was listed.

Yes. 3:27 they went to the other house. 3:57 they entered her as missing and 4:50 they left the other house.
Ah thanks for clearing that up! Begs the question though, if they listed Jayme missing at 3.57 why didn't they leave the 'other house' until 4.50?

I could see them arriving and asking if Jayme was there, then upon learning she wasn't, making the call to label her missing, but then staying on site to interview the residents about what they know of the family, get more names of other people to contact, etc.

Not asserting any of this happened, just trying to think of possibilities that might give others ideas that might lead somewhere...

 

[HarvestMoon]

No relevance at all. It was just giving us a different photo of Denise.

Well I did note that they were to be married on Oct 26, only to be killed many years later on Oct 15 ( I believe the date was)

 

[1987]

i have more than a few things I get hung up on in this whole crime. today, at this moment I am back to that white snowman seen inside the front door when we were looking at the door frame. how does a man get shot that near a white snow man and the snowman still look so white? but yet the shots or at least two were so loud....if the neighbors noted the sound at all it wasn't a .22 being fired.

 

[Seattle1]

I know TOS means we cannot discuss or sleuth victims harshly, but I think I (and others, perhaps) sense something not entirely correct about that household. I can't put my finger on it.

The lack of information from Investigators only lends to the speculation. Hope we have an update soon to help keep us on task. MOO

 

[cluciano63]

If LE felt the public could help with the 911 call, they would release all or part of it. As it is, I can’t understand what people think could be gained from hearing it...

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

It's been characterized by LE as not something spoken into the phone, but that there was lots of yelling and lots of noise in the background and the only part of the noise and yelling they could make out, at least originally was "Help", and after the first day the sheriff seems to have backed off this a little.

And per 911 log "could hear a lot of yelling"
911 Call In Jayme Closs Case Came From Mom’s Cell Phone

 

[ACG2x]

The thing is that those will be mostly cases where the parents are not murdered in the abduction of the minor. The murder of the parents might change a lot. We've heard of a small number of cases where parents/relatives are murdered and a female minor is abducted and they seem to have different stats from other abductions, there seems to be more chance of the girl being kept alive for a while.

I feel there's a chance Jayme has been kept alive since the abduction. Whether she still is, or for how long she might be kept alive, I don't know. But I do believe the stats for 'regular' abductions are not going to be the same as for cases like this. There's still going to be a spectrum, just as in other cases, but I suspect that fewer abductees in cases like this will be murdered in the first 24-48 hours.

I think that this case doesn't stink of random or opportunistic, and that probably means that an abductor wants to 'possess' for a longer period.

Agreed on this point - a recent case I've compared Jayme's too is the kidnapping of Shasta Groene by Joseph Duncan.

- Younger female
- Adults at home at the time murdered
- Only thing of value taken was the child
- Violent crime scene in small, quiet town where things like that "don't happen"
- Very few initial leads - nobody in family history that you can pinpoint as possible suspect

In Shasta's case, her kidnapper was a violent sexual predator that had a history of abduction and molestation of children. The incident with Shasta started in May 2005 and ended in July that same year.

 

[jayaxx]

This isn't the typical 911 call though. Imo they will not release anything about this one.

If and when they ever arrest the suspect this will be one of their most important pieces of evidence.

They are not going to reveal anything about what they heard since the 911 has been enhanced.

I think they know much more now than they did before it was enchanced.

Jmo

You may be right but this is exactly the type of thing that frustrates me. Priority #1 should be doing whatever is necessary to find Jayme, even if it makes the prosecution harder. They should never hold back something that may help find the girl because it could hurt the chance at prosecution later.

But LE does this all the time. Priorities are just wrong.

 

[andreww]

Jayme Closs Case: What to Know About Wisconsin Teen Missing After Parents Found Dead
“We want to bring Jayme home,” Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald said after Jayme disappeared, noting the girl is not considered a suspect in her parents’ deaths. “That’s the main point.”

Below is a timeline of the investigation.

BBM What is the point of saying that? He has said that Jayme is not a suspect many times. Is he simply trying to control public opinion, or is he speaking directly to Jayme, trying to lure her out of possible hiding?

 

[Molly_L]

If LE felt the public could help with the 911 call, they would release all or part of it. As it is, I can’t understand what people think could be gained from hearing it...

Agreed. I'd be more interested in a solid timeline from LE

 

[rosesfromangels]

They always say "oh when his happens its usually someone that is known to them." Well that could mean anyone from relatives to the cashier at the grocery store they shop at. I think it sounds like someone they would recognize but not someone they spent time with or knew on a personal level.

Right.
Based on what we do know, insane rage is the focus of my ponderings.
What causes insane rage that results in this type of slaying?
Of course, it could be explained by mental illness.
Other than mental illness, what could possibly trigger this type of slaughter? What could these two apparently nice, simple living folks in the country have done that resulted in such devastation, and to *both* of them? What did a *couple* do (in the Perps mind), that was so heinous?

That's what is cramping my brain. What could this *couple* have done, or the Perp thought they did, that caused this rage? Under what circumstances does a person completely lose it? Here is the list that I can come up with. Please note I *am NOT* suggesting the parents did any of this, I am simply brainstorming on what would create such a reaction if a person *thought* someone was guilty of these actions:

*Significant impact to finances through malicious actions (unjustified firing, etc. that caused financial ruin)
*Accusations/gossip that had an irreparable impact on someone (ended a marriage, lost a job, hurt their standing at church or in the community etc.)
*Harm to one of their loved ones, especially an elder or child
*Sexual misconduct (cheating, etc.)
*Took something from them that had great meaning to them - but what?
*Perceived abuse of Jayme?

This is the line of thinking I am dwelling on. Unless we are a part of the community, it's unlikely we would know the answers to any of this. However, I suspect members in the community would, and no doubt LE is working on this angle as well. I think Jayme's best friend, whoever that is, will be key as well. If Jayme didn't have a best friend, I would be very troubled by that.

Amateur opinion and speculation only

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

This isn't the typical 911 call though. Imo they will not release anything about this one.

If and when they ever arrest the suspect this will be one of their most important pieces of evidence.

They are not going to reveal anything about what they heard since the 911 has been enhanced.

I think they know much more now than they did before it was enchanced.

Jmo

I agree with you 100%.

 

[MsBetsy]

I know TOS means we cannot discuss or sleuth victims harshly, but I think I (and others, perhaps) sense something not entirely correct about that household. I can't put my finger on it.

I can't imagine anything we have heard that would make one think there was something incorrect about the household. They seemed like hard working people whose main concern was their child and helping others in need. Jayme seemed well cared for, was active in extra curricular activities, and had no disciplinary issues at school that we know of. They managed to pay for years of private dance classes although they likely didn't have a ton of money. They arranged for an adult to care for her when they were not home. It seems to me they did all the right things. Jmo

 

[ACG2x]

If LE felt the public could help with the 911 call, they would release all or part of it. As it is, I can’t understand what people think could be gained from hearing it...

All you'll get are the people who think they can hear or know better than FBI audio forensic experts posting on social media and elsewhere "Aha! I can clearly hear ____" and make connections that aren't there to 'break the case open'. Releasing the call right now is a zero sum game for LE so agreed, they shouldn't do it. If there wasn't anything intelligible on the call other than maybe the word HELP at one point, then the only reason to release it is morbid public curiosity and sensationalist journalism for people to use it as clickbait.

Unless the perp's name is captured somehow or one of the Closs' gave a physical description, why the hell do people want to hear a 911 call from a murder scene?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Feels like this was a personal 'hit' as opposed to a random home invasion.
Like someone was at the boiling point and snapped ?

In today's time I dont rule anything out anymore.

There have been so many cases where the majority thought that the victims were targeted by someone they knew.

In so many cases though that turned out to not be true.

Even LE has been flat wrong before when thinking the suspect was known to the victims but when they were finally caught their thinking was all wrong and the victims did not know the prepetrator/s at all.

Imo