AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #21

[1987]

He knew exactly what to expect and who was home. He knew their pattern or had inside info. Weeks or longer. And no one notices?

this does not make it random. moo. this makes it stalked.

 

[Randazzo]

I can’t understand why anyone wants to hear it. Do they think they will pick up something all of the trained technicians cannot?? Curiosity? I just don’t get it...but jmo

I'm curious who has heard it. Family, friends, other people who might recognize voices?

 

[DancingMuse]

It's happened before: 38 years later, Simants murder case still raises tough questions

Thank you for this link to the Simants story Darkstar105.
It addresses issues which are relevant for us on a couple of levels.
Much gratitude.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Not only that, but I think he’s likely got an extensive criminal record.

This is highly unlikely to have been his first crime.

then I think *COULD* have been initiated and finished in less than 5 min. just from a technical thought, but I doubt it was done that rapidly.

Sure, with knowledge of what to expect and some preparation.

 

[Randazzo]

Why do you think it was necessary that this crime required so much planning?

It’s a messy way to commit an otherwise well planned crime.

Unless it wasn’t well planned at all.

It's interesting how most opinions fall into two camps.. either it was totally random or it was planned with military precision. I guess it seemed planned because the perp(s) encountered no big dogs, cameras, nosy neighbors, motion sensors, etc.. but it seems random because no obvious motive.

 

[cluciano63]

I'm curious who has heard it. Family, friends, other people who might recognize voices?

I doubt it. LE could probably find Jayme’s voice, for example, by dialing her voice mail or maybe on a home video on her computer. If it contains just “sounds” as LE has mainly indicated...I think it would be too difficult to hear and of little use to the case. Jmo

 

[MassGuy]

I'm curious who has heard it. Family, friends, other people who might recognize voices?

Likely just people within LE. If there were discernible voices in that recording, other than the caller, they would certainly play it for family members, and release it to the public.

 

[MassGuy]

It's interesting how most opinions fall into two camps.. either it was totally random or it was planned with military precision. I guess it seemed planned because the perp(s) encountered no big dogs, cameras, nosy neighbors, motion sensors, etc.. but it seems random because no obvious motive.

Sometimes good luck can look like good planning.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Why do you think it was necessary that this crime required so much planning?

It’s a messy way to commit an otherwise well planned crime.

Unless it wasn’t well planned at all.

OK, walk me through the random criminal theory...

 

[cluciano63]

I hope he does have a long record and had to give his DNA along the line...in case nothing else breaks for them. Sometimes it seems like it can take a while get replies from CODIS...months for cold cases, i.e on the old show “Cold Case Files” it took up to a year. But hopefully not for an active one like this.

 

[1987]

Sure, with knowledge of what to expect and some preparation.

if person A has a firearm and person B does not then person A has control of the whole situation, I think luck is playing as much a part as planning.

 

[bizzle2]

Thank you. I was able to listen. He said four minutes..

How could they possibly know that. It makes no sense

I don't think he specifically tied to it being exactly four minutes. I mean, they obviously don't know the exact second the perp left, so they couldn't know the exact time period.

What he means is the incident started right around the time of the 911 call (maybe it was ten seconds before the call, maybe it was 90 seconds before the call -- they don't know down to the exact second), and the perp was gone by the time the police got there. So they know it happened quickly. It could have been four minutes. It could have been three minutes, or maybe even two. It could have been five minutes. I think he was just using four minutes because that is how long it took the officers to arrive -- he's not saying that he is certain the whole thing took exactly 4 minutes.

His whole point in all if it was that it was pretty quick. This was not a drawn out thing.

 

[curious jane]

I'm beginning to feel a credible scenerio can be constructed in which Jayme was not the original motivation for the crime, or, if she was, it was for quick money, and not sexual or obsession fueled reasons.

It's always seemed incongruous that a SO would go in guns blazing, and that a home invasion would end up with an abduction.

However, a typical drug fueled home invasion looking for quick money in which Jayme is stolen for her monetary value seems to fit the quick, brutal, and unnecessarily deadly events.

 

[stephlovescheese]

O/T what is the banner i see at the top of the page talking about Websleuth radio tonight?? Sounds really interesting!
Thanks

 

[MassGuy]

OK, walk me through the random criminal theory...

Random crimes like this are rare, but I’ll humor you.

I’ll use the Cheshire murders as a bit of a model, although that was a robbery that turned into rape and multiple murder.

I’m a drug using criminal with a history of sexual deviance. I have a gun in my vehicle.

I encounter Jayme and her mother at some point during the day of the attack. I want Jayme.

I follow them home, and discover to my delight, that the house is relatively secluded.

I leave, get something to eat, and perhaps use drugs or alcohol.

I engage the house late that night, when I know the family will be sleeping. I kill the parents, and kidnap Jayme.

I escape, not by good planning, but with good luck.

Now I don’t think this is what happened, but that’s how a random crime could occur.

 

[photographer4]

BBM: This is just your opinion, right?

Yes. Sorry if wasn’t clear

 

[VeryVeritas]

if person A has a firearm and person B does not then person A has control of the whole situation, I think luck is playing as much a part as planning.

I cant see it likely at all that someone just randomly drives up, kicks door starts blazing. Sure things might have gone wrong. Younger guy, takes more risk, less experience. Older experienced guy or well trained, watches more, plans, takes fewer risks. Team of 2 perhaps.

 

[Nerissa]

The Sheriff's wording about that call: 'the commotion..'
I do think that the nature of the commotion leads LE to believe that the crime was recently ensue...
in addition to so little DNA left...

Now, simply because they did not hang out in the house for 25 minutes does not mean the perps weren't 'on the scene'
Maybe they went up to the house...shouting, threatening - maybe a couple shots were fired...then they went to their car, or maybe even left then came back: then they didn't waste time: kicked in door...

The only thing with this scenario - is that why didn't James or Denise call 911 pronto? (maybe because it was a family member or friend they figured it'd all be alright...)
Still find the 911 call odd....why didn't anyone speak....why was it so far from the commotion as to be like the Sheriff talking from down a hallway at the interview? (that was his analogy)

 

[bizzle2]

"We have to realize they were probably only in that residence for four minutes. Or you know, we were there within four minutes, they were gone."

I truly do not believe he meant to imply that the assailant(s) were in the house for only 4 minutes.

He's not saying they were for sure in there for exactly four minutes. He's saying it was something around that amount of time. He means it was quick. Based on what he said probably 2-5 minutes.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Random crimes like this are rare, but I’ll humor you.

I’ll use the Cheshire murders as a bit of a model, although that was a robbery that turned into rape and multiple murder.

I’m a drug using criminal with a history of sexual deviance. I have a gun in my vehicle.

I encounter Jayme and her mother at some point during the day of the attack. I want Jayme.

I follow them home, and discover to my delight, that the house is relatively secluded.

I leave, get something to eat, and perhaps use drugs or alcohol.

I engage the house late that night, when I know the family will be sleeping. I kill the parents, and kidnap Jayme.

I escape, not by good planning, but with good luck.

Now I don’t think this is what happened, but that’s how a random crime could occur.

And are you local or just passin through?

 

[Randazzo]

Was it ever released what type of gun(s) were used?