AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #22

[MsBetsy]

If someone has both the Closs address, and the neighboring address where the arrest/arrests were made shortly after the abduction, could someone PM them to me (or post, and PM me a link so I don't miss it, please.) I'd like to see if there's any way someone looking for the other house might mistakenly arrive at the Closs house. Thanks in advance.

There was a map linked at one time. Maybe someone can find it again. But from what I remember you can't see much through the trees. Plus the neighbors don't seem like a very likely target. They are an older couple. Not sure about the other house, or where the driveways are, though. But I'm sure LE looked into this, in fact I think they said the arrest of the neighbor was not related. Jmo

 

[#Hayls]

It seems rare I agree. That rare move when the sheriff held that town hall meeting, closed to the media insyred that IMOO. I will always wonder what was said. But, i can imagine he explained why it's a bad idea to yammer to media. At first i thought maybe he gave examples of media gone wild. Doubtful. Its a positive sign IMO. We don't want Jayme to be in further danger bc some idiot decided to blabber on MSM. Unfortunately, the statistics are NOT good at this point.

Sometimes employees are unable to speak to the media due to company policy.

I'm glad Jayme's peers aren't on display in the media. It makes me feel like their privacy and safety are being prioritized.

Maybe LE had spoken to the groups of people mentioned above behind closed doors.

 

[#Hayls]

Maybe the dog was barking.

 

[bizzle2]

I agree with you on this one. However i do think that LE tended to believe the neighbours statement of the time they heard the gunshots (although its never been confirmed), and we know LE were looking at footage of vehicles of interest in the area between 12.30 - 1.30 that night. I can only presume they started looking at 12.30 because of the neighbours statement?

I see it as the opposite.

If LE was taking the neighbors hearing the shots into account then they would have made the timeline earlier than 12:30am.

There is also the DrydenWire interview with the sheriff where he says multiple times that they believe it happened pretty quickly. And further elaborates to say one of the reasons the case has been tough to sole is that the crime likely occurred in a lot less than 25 minutes.

He didn't directly refute the crime starting when the neighbors said the shots were heard, but everything he's said tells us they aren't taking that account in their timeline.

 

[debirlfan]

The majority here seems to think that the mother would automatically go to and hide with the daughter. I'm not sure I see it that way.

Assume for a moment that everyone is in bed (possibly still awake), and something is heard at/near the front door at the other end of the house. Possibly hears a car pull in the driveway, or a creaky screen door opening. Father goes to investigate/look out the window. Door is kicked in, gunfire. I can picture the mother sticking her head in the child's room and telling her to hide in the closet, and then going toward the front of the house in an attempt to help the husband and/or stall the perp(s) and give the daughter more time to hide.

Sheriff has indicated that on the phone call, voices/sounds are muted as if there was a wall between the phone and the yelling. That would make sense Jayme was hiding and had the phone and was afraid to speak for fear of being heard. When 911 tried calling back, if the phone wasn't on mute, she might well have freaked and bolted out the back door. Perp(s), now realizing there was someone else in the house and that they may have called for help, go after Jayme and don't want to take the time to kill her (police on route), so simply grab her, throw her in the trunk and go.

If accurate, sadly they probably took her somewhere else to kill her.

 

[MsBetsy]

Sometimes employees are unable to speak to the media due to company policy.

I'm glad Jayme's peers aren't on display in the media. It makes me feel like their privacy and safety are being prioritized.

Maybe LE had spoken to the groups of people mentioned above behind closed doors.

I got the idea the sheriff and the community are being very careful in avoiding the media, except when it is necessary and useful to them. I think LE has used the media wisely to get this story out, and to avoid speculation and rumor. I also think he addressed all the concerns the public had about dealing with media and the importance of not revealing too much information during that meeting for the community they had at the beginning. Imo

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I agree with you. IMO the day that LE shows their entire hand will be a sad day, because that will be the signal that they have done everything they could without any solutions.

It will in all likelihood be at trial and not before. It is exactly the identical by the book tact they took with MOLLY Tibbets Case and every missing child Case on WS.

IT IS NOT UNIQUE

It is not unusual

It is exactly according to police procedure. And

It is protecting the prosecution case

And they are wellwithin the law.

I think to many are shortchanging the investigators, including the FBI, who are the very best in the world.

And if I were missing I could only hope to have any of them searching for me.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

True, but we do know she was there at the time of the murder. So it makes sense that she was there at the time of the call, or that she may be the one who called. Imo

How do we know she was there? I don’t recall any reference to that. Plenty of speculation. I might be incorrect but I recall no one in an official capacity sayingvshe was definitely at the house at any given time.

I know it makes sense, but there’s no statement or evidence she was there. What if she wasn’t. How does it change things.????

 

[WiseOwl]

BBM
I'm glad you posted this as I was just in the process of posting something similar. LE has never outright confirmed the timing of the neighbors hearing gunshots.

Please humor me but what if...………

The neighbor did mistakenly look at the clock and it was more along the lines of 12:51 vs 12:31 as others here mentioned. Easy mistake to make especially for someone whose older (eyesight wise) and in bed. She also mentioned her dog altering to something around 1:00 am (the getaway?)

I set my stop watch time for approx. 7 minutes (start of call to officers arriving on scene). Wow that was an eye opener, it was a long time!! I actually went to my front door and imitated the actions, ie confrontation/altercation with JC, DC somewhere behind him dials 911 after first shots drops the phone in front living room area runs with Jayme to bathroom/back bedroom locking them in using the chair as a barricade. Perp breaks in and shoots DC (maybe that's why neighbors didn't hear another shot) grabs Jayme and blazes out of there.

The phone could have been far enough to only hear noise/commotion like "Jayme I love you I can't live without you, I'd rather die" etc. (possible reason suicide dispatch??) Perp sees it/hears 911 operator and disables it on way out. Plenty of time for this to happen.

JMO plus my DH thinks I am way too invested in this. He was my perp in this scenario

Did you take into consideration the 911 call was 47 seconds long? Great reconstruction of the crime by the way!

 

[Trino]

Yes, that's why I think whoever did this has had some experience. They may have killed before or abducted and killed before. Jmo

Or, was former military.

 

[MsBetsy]

The majority here seems to think that the mother would automatically go to and hide with the daughter. I'm not sure I see it that way.

Assume for a moment that everyone is in bed (possibly still awake), and something is heard at/near the front door at the other end of the house. Possibly hears a car pull in the driveway, or a creaky screen door opening. Father goes to investigate/look out the window. Door is kicked in, gunfire. I can picture the mother sticking her head in the child's room and telling her to hide in the closet, and then going toward the front of the house in an attempt to help the husband and/or stall the perp(s) and give the daughter more time to hide.

Sheriff has indicated that on the phone call, voices/sounds are muted as if there was a wall between the phone and the yelling. That would make sense Jayme was hiding and had the phone and was afraid to speak for fear of being heard. When 911 tried calling back, if the phone wasn't on mute, she might well have freaked and bolted out the back door. Perp(s), now realizing there was someone else in the house and that they may have called for help, go after Jayme and don't want to take the time to kill her (police on route), so simply grab her, throw her in the trunk and go.

If accurate, sadly they probably took her somewhere else to kill her.

I think her mom may have first gone into Jayme's room first as well. It was far from the front door and near the sliding glass door. Then she was shot after going to help her husband or at least trying to see what was going on. LE said the background noise sounded far away, so it may have been Jayme who made the call before she was found in her room. I also think it is likely she was killed within the next several hours. Of course I hope it is not the case, but it is looking more likely that she won't be found alive. Jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

I see it as the opposite.

If LE was taking the neighbors hearing the shots into account then they would have made the timeline earlier than 12:30am.

There is also the DrydenWire interview with the sheriff where he says multiple times that they believe it happened pretty quickly. And further elaborates to say one of the reasons the case has been tough to sole is that the crime likely occurred in a lot less than 25 minutes.

He didn't directly refute the crime starting when the neighbors said the shots were heard, but everything he's said tells us they aren't taking that account in their timeline.

Yes, especially the fact that they haven't even mentioned it, and have emphasized the whole thing taking place very fast. Not long enough to leave DNA or other evidence, which is much more likely in a period of 25 minutes. Jmo

 

[Trino]

How do we know she was there? I don’t recall any reference to that. Plenty of speculation. I might be incorrect but I recall no one in an official capacity sayingvshe was definitely at the house at any given time.

I know it makes sense, but there’s no statement or evidence she was there. What if she wasn’t. How does it change things.????

Interesting. What if Jayme was elsewhere during the crime? Already outside?

 

[Intrigued25]

The majority here seems to think that the mother would automatically go to and hide with the daughter. I'm not sure I see it that way.

Assume for a moment that everyone is in bed (possibly still awake), and something is heard at/near the front door at the other end of the house. Possibly hears a car pull in the driveway, or a creaky screen door opening. Father goes to investigate/look out the window. Door is kicked in, gunfire. I can picture the mother sticking her head in the child's room and telling her to hide in the closet, and then going toward the front of the house in an attempt to help the husband and/or stall the perp(s) and give the daughter more time to hide.

Sheriff has indicated that on the phone call, voices/sounds are muted as if there was a wall between the phone and the yelling. That would make sense Jayme was hiding and had the phone and was afraid to speak for fear of being heard. When 911 tried calling back, if the phone wasn't on mute, she might well have freaked and bolted out the back door. Perp(s), now realizing there was someone else in the house and that they may have called for help, go after Jayme and don't want to take the time to kill her (police on route), so simply grab her, throw her in the trunk and go.

If accurate, sadly they probably took her somewhere else to kill her.

It appears the perp(s) were on a mission, had they wanted to eliminate Jayme as a witness it would have taken only a second to pull the trigger.

 

[MsBetsy]

How do we know she was there? I don’t recall any reference to that. Plenty of speculation. I might be incorrect but I recall no one in an official capacity sayingvshe was definitely at the house at any given time.

I know it makes sense, but there’s no statement or evidence she was there. What if she wasn’t. How does it change things.????

LE has specifically stated that from the 911 call as well as other evidence that she was there, at the house at the time of the murder. They seem to be confident based on the evidence. Jmo

 

[Bluepopsicle]

I don't think we really know. I've seen a lot of anecdotal descriptions for what happens when you cut a line (ringing and ringing) versus what happens when someone simply ends their service (operator message saying the number has been disconnected). All it says in the dispatch log is that the operator tried to call the landline number for the Closs house and it had been disconnected. We don't know if she heard ringing or if she got a message saying it had been disconnected. I would like to see something more concrete before I decide the line wasn't cut by the perp(s). JMO.

The line about the phone being disconnected is on page 4 (if you select the little double arrow you can select tools and rotate the page view to see the document easier): http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf

I disagree, because I think if i just rang and rang (as it would if the line was cut), then I would assume the dispatcher would note that there was no answer in the call log as opposed to noting it was disconnected.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.fox9...al-gives-insight-on-jayme-closs-investigation

Short evaluation of Closs Case by profiler.

 

[Celt1997]

Interesting. What if Jayme was elsewhere during the crime? Already outside?

In light of where James was found, I have entertained this idea, as well. Suspect kicks in the door and immediately grabs for Jayme and heads out the door. James gives chase and is shot as he is trying to go out the door after them while Denise is making the 911 call.

 

[kkdj]

Like driving North toward Rice Lake where the big search and later helicopter searches took place ?

yes....

 

[andreww]

I'm still thinking about the chair. Some speculated that it could have been held up as a shield but I have a different idea. What if there was a struggle and one shot got fired towards the chair's location by a person at floor level? That might cause the upward trajectory through the chair's bottom that we think we are seeing in the photos. JMO.

Until we actually know how many shots were fired we just don't know. I will say that it is entirely possible that a high calibre bullet could pass through someone and find its way in to the chair. But who knows, only info we currently have suggests two shots fired..