AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #22

[MsBetsy]

disconnected

Yikes! At first I thought part of my post ended up in your post and couldn't figure out how that happened. Just wanted to add for cherry meg that it was not the killer who had disconnected it. A bunch of posters figured that out a long time ago, since if he had there would not be a recording it would just ring. Imo

 

[Le Singe]

We would think LE would know what Jayme was wearing when she went missing but the sheriff said in his Dryden interview that he didnt know what she was wearing that night. He never stated pajamas , shoes etc..

how would they possibly know that?

 

[1987]

I'm still trying to make sense of the sequence of events with Jim at the door. If his feet were visible to the arriving officers that would mean the door was completely open behind his body.

To me this does seem to mean that the door was kicked in, then Jim arrived to confront whomever was there, and may have actually moved them back a bit, before the intruder shot Jim. Since they mention the feet being visible to the officers, IMO, means he had would have had to move outward onto the front landing a bit, rather than barricading, or pushing against the door from inside.

i agree. this is what it sounds like to me too. so what would delay a 911 call in this idea?

 

[Hatfield]

i agree. this is what it sounds like to me too. so what would delay a 911 call in this idea?

Maybe it took a little bit of time for others to wake up and realize what was happening in the home if others were sleeping and woke up to noise. It takes a little bit of time to gather your senses when awoken by something.

 

[cherrymeg]

i agree. this is what it sounds like to me too. so what would delay a 911 call in this idea?

You might not be quick to call 911 on someone you knew or if you didn't think there was danger at first. You'd have to be ready to call 911 and even then that doesn't mean anyone will come in time. Men sometimes have a sense of security or a belief their presence can ward off a burglar or an unwanted guest. jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

how would they possibly know that?

Right. Even if her family had told them what she was wearing at the party there is no way to know if she was still wearing those clothes, until they found them. They must have found the denim jacket and assumed she had changed into clothes for bed, and even her family might not know what that could be. That is what I am assuming since there was no clothing description.

 

[WiseOwl]

i agree. this is what it sounds like to me too. so what would delay a 911 call in this idea?

How do we know the 911 call was delayed at all? We don't know for definite the timeline of events that night.

 

[pepper 34]

People can't pay you back when they are dead. If there was a life insurance policy it would have been smarter to make the death look accidental. Kidnapping a 13 year old after killing her parents is not the best way to get any sort of money. If there was any money lending going on or gambling taking a teenage girl isn't the way to keep a business going, especially if it isn't 100% legal. How many people would want to bet on anything if they're likely to get killed and have their child go missing? If that's what happens if you owe money what is keeping people quiet?

You make very good and logical points here and I agree with every bit of your comment. Then, pointing out the reason this case is so confusing to me... I also agree with those who say some criminals do kill their debtors as a message to others especially when they know there is never going to be the pay-off they are demanding. Unfortunately, so many logical answers contradict each other thus I remain undecided on so many issues we are puzzling over. I know, from news stories, that killing the debtor does happen and frequently, too. That's why I can't discount anything that is a possibility. Sorry about the underlining. I know how to "stop it" but the program is not paying attention to my clicks.

 

[CarnegieHall]

I live within about twenty miles of four casinos, one of them is very much closer. Hope I am not murdered or go missing...I guess it would be presumed I had racked up debts?

Normally I would say take everyone at face value. The Closs’ seem like such a caring and wonderful family who did everything right. But someone caused their deaths and took Jayme. Since there are so little clues and time keeps passing, imo it seems reasonable to consider all possible motives. Nothing is inherently wrong—nothing is wrong with having debt, gambling, drinking, using SM, having a boyfriend, etc. But sometimes you unknowingly anger the wrong person or attract unwanted attention unknowingly and it’s not your fault. And sometimes you get into things you didn’t mean to. Who knows what happened here. I wish we knew more to get Jayme back

 

[cherrymeg]

Maybe it took a little bit of time for others to wake up and realize what was happening in the home if others were sleeping and woke up to noise. It takes a little bit of time to gather your senses when awoken by something.

Was Jayme a deep sleeper? Some people can sleep through fire alarms and all sorts of noise. Would someone have seen her and decided to take her as she was asleep or just waking up to the chaos?

 

[CarnegieHall]

I live within about twenty miles of four casinos, one of them is very much closer. Hope I am not murdered or go missing...I guess it would be presumed I had racked up debts?

Normally I would say take everyone at face value. The Closs’ seem like such a caring and wonderful family who did everything right. But someone caused their deaths and took Jayme. Since there are so little clues and time keeps passing, imo it seems reasonable to consider all possible motives. Nothing is inherently wrong—nothing is wrong with having debt, gambling, drinking, using SM, having a boyfriend, etc. But sometimes you unknowingly anger the wrong person or attract unwanted attention unknowingly and it’s not your fault. And sometimes you get into things you didn’t mean to. Who knows what happened here. I wish we knew more to get Jayme back

 

[MsBetsy]

Maybe it took a little bit of time for others to wake up and realize what was happening in the home if others were sleeping and woke up to noise. It takes a little bit of time to gather your senses when awoken by something.

Yes, in an extreme state of fear and panic I would think it takes a few minutes to act. Not every one thinks clearly or fast in a situation like that. Imo

 

[Hatfield]

JMO
This is such a frightening scene to think about how it happened to them.

Its one reason why I have roll played in my home how I would handle an intruder. I may still be a victim but I have taken some steps to try to be on the offensive if someone enters my home.

I dont have children so its easier for me to be safe with weapons in the home. I have a couple carefully placed hidden weapons in two different spots in the home that I can get to pretty quick depending on where I am in the home. If I get trapped away from one of my weapons I can get to the other one.

Its just the way I choose to deal with home safety and everyone is different. There is risk with my method because if a perp does manage to find my weapon then of course he could use it against me. Hopefully my hidden places are good enough where that would never happen.

I also am very strict with locking all doors and windows at all times even during the day. Its a little easier for me because I dont have people coming and going like families that have children.

 

[CarnegieHall]

Normally I would say take everyone at face value. The Closs’ seem like such a caring and wonderful family who did everything right. But someone caused their deaths and took Jayme. Since there are so little clues and time keeps passing, imo it seems reasonable to consider all possible motives. Nothing is inherently wrong—nothing is wrong with having debt, gambling, drinking, using SM, having a boyfriend, etc. But sometimes you unknowingly anger the wrong person or attract unwanted attention unknowingly and it’s not your fault. And sometimes you get into things you didn’t mean to. Who knows what happened here. I wish we knew more to get Jayme back

ETA — and actually if it was me, I wouldn’t mind what LE or people speculated if it would help get my daughter back jmo

 

[l84tea2]

Plus why take Jayme if that were the case?

Yes this is true.. I’m not sure. It’s all such a damn puzzle. So frustrating that they can find a guy living in his van sending bombs. Because he made a mistake of one thumb print! But they can’t even give us a clue to who they are even looking for. It’s just so incredibly sad and scary

 

[1987]

from the outside breaking in if who ever it was didn't already know some things about the family they couldn't count on someone being dazed from sleep or fear I don't think. they also couldn't count on not having a firearm pointed right back at them. who ever done this either knew about life inside or took some huge risk.

 

[MsBetsy]

Normally I would say take everyone at face value. The Closs’ seem like such a caring and wonderful family who did everything right. But someone caused their deaths and took Jayme. Since there are so little clues and time keeps passing, imo it seems reasonable to consider all possible motives. Nothing is inherently wrong—nothing is wrong with having debt, gambling, drinking, using SM, having a boyfriend, etc. But sometimes you unknowingly anger the wrong person or attract unwanted attention unknowingly and it’s not your fault. And sometimes you get into things you didn’t mean to. Who knows what happened here. I wish we knew more to get Jayme back

There is also the possibility that there was no other reason this particular family was chosen other than the killer just wanted to murder and abduct a 13 year old. He may have picked that particular house because it was isolated and could not be seen by any neighbors. Also there are many possible escape routes. He may have scoped out the area in advance and figured out the most likely route LE would make to the house and picked one of the routes that are the least travelled. They seem to think he travelled on that 14 mile stretch of road. Maybe he took some back roads that lead to the other road to bypass or avoid anyone seeing him in the minutes after the crime. Jmo

 

[Mistermagoo]

Another thing that I have been thinking about with the Crime scene, Sheriff Fitzgerald said something to the effect that they came across a child's bedroom in the house and had to call the school security guard to see if there was a known child living there. Besides that being odd, Does anyone think that statement may indicate the if the room was left alone, or normal?

 

[pepper 34]

It does seem to be effective, however. Reading up on organized crimes and cartels shows that this method of "business" is one that's been used for a century and still going strong.

I don't think this crime had anything to do with either, by the way, but punishing one person (or small group) to send out a message to others IS something that happens.

As someone previously pointed out, there is also the idea that the "debt" wasn't monetary but a reneging on a promise or a failure to follow through with something. Also valid ideas, though I don't feel strongly about them one way or the other.

I try to stay away from saying, "I wouldn't do this" or "I wouldn't do that" because though I can speculate for myself, I can't speak for how other people would react.

Exactly how I feel and try to think, as well. If I only try to answer questions according to what I would do under certain circumstances I'm missing a larger picture. Of course, we all do just that and it's natural to "put ourselves" in someone else's place when trying to decide what might have happened in any situation. But, deciding what we would have done is only part of the answer because people are all so different in their thought processes and experiences. For example, I would never kill someone who owed me money... the very thought would ever enter my mind. I would take them to court if I could afford to. But, if I couldn't afford the court fee, even I would have to choose a different action. (In this case, I would be angry and work on forgetting the debt and never get into any other situation with this person.) So, even the very same person (in this case, me, will choose more than one option depending of circumstances.) Another person might never consider either of my choices under any circumstances. It's important to realize other people often don't think or act the way we do. Jmo.

 

[kc1023]

Delay in calling 911? Not super unusual IMO. I hydroplaned off the highway a couple of years ago and went way down a culvert and totaled my car. I was only slightly injured but the airbags went off and it was all smoky inside the car once it finally stopped moving. I kept trying to dial 911 but instead I kept hitting the SnapChat button. Not on purpose I just kept doing it by habit I guess. I'd be like "OMG I don't need SnapChat" and I'd close it and then hit it again! Took me 3 or 4 times of doing that before I finally hit the darn phone button. You can be really rattled when something unexpected happens is my point.