AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #23

[Confusion]

I cant reconcile what puts him immediately at the door but has a delay in 911 call. if it was fast then I understand the delay in the call but not dad being that close to the door. if it was long enough to put dad that close to the door then I don't understand the delay in the 911 call.

I know I shouldn't assume anything, especially in a case like this one, but I'm doing it anyway. I assume that the light outside the front door was turned on by James so he could see who was at the door (as opposed to LE turning it on when they got there.) What I keep seeing going through my head is someone pounding on the door and yelling, and him turning on the light, looking out and saying something like, "Go home Fred, you're drunk." That makes 'Fred' (no idea what name to use) even more irate and he shoots through the door and then kicks it the rest of the way open.
When he shot through the door, he may not have meant to kill him, but just panicked when he discovered that he had. He may have then shot DC when she screamed and ran for a phone to call 911 (or grabbed her phone and ran to a different room to call.) The commotion heard on the 911 call could have been him responding to what he'd done, and then Jayme freaking out when she comes out of her room and sees what had happened. By that time he may have come to his senses enough to not shoot her, but not enough to figure out what to do with her, so he just grabs her and takes her out with him.
That's as far as I go, I have no idea what he'd do with her once they left or if she's still alive. I also highly doubt that things were anything like this, but I thought it was time for some new perspectives on the whole thing. I have no idea why he'd have a firearm with him if he wasn't planning to shoot anyone or why he would have been upset in the first place (maybe he brought it along to scare him or make him listen?) Definitely my idea, but not really my opinion.

Trying to bite my tongue with every casino comment, but at some point I have to say something...

I’ve worked in casino operations since 1994, I’m actually sitting in my office at a casino now as I type this. I’m on camera every minute of every day from the moment I pull off the highway until I leave property. The only areas that don’t have camera coverage are the bathrooms and the guests hotel rooms.

Everything I do and everything the casino does is highly regulated. The games are fair, cards and dice are inspected dozens of times per day, machines are precisely calibrated to regulated payback percentages. IDs are checked, taxes are withheld and reported, we work alongside both DCI and state gaming regulators who ensure that everything is legit. Everything. If I get a DUI tonight I’ll lose my license and my job tomorrow morning.

I can absolutely promise you the casino is not involved. Even in the very limited circumstances where it would be possible to owe the casino money (bad checks are the most common), the casino’s lawyers will handle it. Period.

Thanks. I've also been avoiding saying anything because people put up with my weird scenarios, so I don't feel qualified to judge anyone else's I have several relatives who work at that casino and others in Wisconsin and Minnesota, and they all agree with you; they're in business to make money and making loans to people who obviously can't manage their money well is not a good way to do that. None of them do your job, but between them they are a dealer, 3 people who walk around to supply change, etc. (I can't think of what they're called right now), an accountant, a security guard and a bartender. Surprisingly, none of them who work at the one in Turtle Lake has been talking about the case, but the others and the other side of my family out there in neighboring towns post about it all the time. I also think the casino had nothing to do with it. MOO

 

[Jax49]

Well, LE claims not to know if he went to the casino, which is a very strange answer, imo. It can’t be possible that no one knows for sure where he was? I mean, the family may not know as LE never reveals much to families. But if he was not working...maybe LE can’t be sure where he was?

"Question: Was the dad at the casino the night of the murders?
Sheriff Fitzgerald: Don't know the answer to that."

IMO, just because the Sheriff doesn't know the answer doesn't mean the investigators don't know.

ETA: If it was important the sheriff would have been told.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I know I shouldn't assume anything, especially in a case like this one, but I'm doing it anyway. I assume that the light outside the front door was turned on by James so he could see who was at the door (as opposed to LE turning it on when they got there.) What I keep seeing going through my head is someone pounding on the door and yelling, and him turning on the light, looking out and saying something like, "Go home Fred, you're drunk." That makes 'Fred' (no idea what name to use) even more irate and he shoots through the door and then kicks it the rest of the way open.
When he shot through the door, he may not have meant to kill him, but just panicked when he discovered that he had. He may have then shot DC when she screamed and ran for a phone to call 911 (or grabbed her phone and ran to a different room to call.) The commotion heard on the 911 call could have been him responding to what he'd done, and then Jayme freaking out when she comes out of her room and sees what had happened.

I've been leaning toward that sort of scenario w/ the shooting, if not the motive. I think maybe JC went to the door w/ DC close behind him. Some verbal sparring takes place through the door between JC and the perp, and DC starts to dial 911. The perp sprays shots through the door, mortally wounding JC and injuring DC, who drops the phone and runs as the door is kicked in. The 911 call connects, but DC and the perp are now elsewhere in the house, and Jayme is caught up in the melee. All the dispatcher can hear is muffled voices. Perp returns to the front door area to make sure JC is still down -- sees the phone -- and stomps it or turns it off. Soon, perp departs w/ Jayme.

 

[human]

James went to a gym. I saw that he won an award. I foget for what. .

Maybe some guy thought James was talking too much to the perp’s gf. Maybe he ent ballistic Maybe the gf said she wished he was more like James.

It makes him think of revenge. Why did he take Jayme? Maybe he is a pervert in addition to being a comtrol freak.

 

[human]

I've been leaning toward that sort of scenario w/ the shooting, if not the motive. I think maybe JC went to the door w/ DC close behind him. Some verbal sparring takes place through the door between JC and the perp, and DC starts to dial 911. The perp sprays shots through the door, mortally wounding JC and injuring DC, who drops the phone and runs as the door is kicked in. The 911 call connects, but DC and the perp are now elsewhere in the house, and Jayme is caught up in the melee. All the dispatcher can hear is muffled voices. Perp returns to the front door area to make sure JC is still down -- sees the phone -- and stomps it or turns it off. Soon, perp departs w/ Jayme.

I wondered about the light. We had a motion detector light. But that one was on in the daytime so either they kept a light on all night or James turned it on when he went to the door.

 

[Jethro4WS]

A new article with not much new except a detail about Jayme's phone
New Video Surveillance Search Expanded, Electronic Device Detecting K-9 Utilized in Jayme Closs Search

Jayme's cell phone was found in the home, plugged in in the kitchen and apps on it are being analyzed.

 

[Andreee]

I know I shouldn't assume anything, especially in a case like this one, but I'm doing it anyway. I assume that the light outside the front door was turned on by James so he could see who was at the door (as opposed to LE turning it on when they got there.) What I keep seeing going through my head is someone pounding on the door and yelling, and him turning on the light, looking out and saying something like, "Go home Fred, you're drunk." That makes 'Fred' (no idea what name to use) even more irate and he shoots through the door and then kicks it the rest of the way open.
When he shot through the door, he may not have meant to kill him, but just panicked when he discovered that he had. He may have then shot DC when she screamed and ran for a phone to call 911 (or grabbed her phone and ran to a different room to call.) The commotion heard on the 911 call could have been him responding to what he'd done, and then Jayme freaking out when she comes out of her room and sees what had happened. By that time he may have come to his senses enough to not shoot her, but not enough to figure out what to do with her, so he just grabs her and takes her out with him.
That's as far as I go, I have no idea what he'd do with her once they left or if she's still alive. I also highly doubt that things were anything like this, but I thought it was time for some new perspectives on the whole thing. I have no idea why he'd have a firearm with him if he wasn't planning to shoot anyone or why he would have been upset in the first place (maybe he brought it along to scare him or make him listen?) Definitely my idea, but not really my opinion.



Thanks. I've also been avoiding saying anything because people put up with my weird scenarios, so I don't feel qualified to judge anyone else's I have several relatives who work at that casino and others in Wisconsin and Minnesota, and they all agree with you; they're in business to make money and making loans to people who obviously can't manage their money well is not a good way to do that. None of them do your job, but between them they are a dealer, 3 people who walk around to supply change, etc. (I can't think of what they're called right now), an accountant, a security guard and a bartender. Surprisingly, none of them who work at the one in Turtle Lake has been talking about the case, but the others and the other side of my family out there in neighboring towns post about it all the time. I also think the casino had nothing to do with it. MOO

 

[Jethro4WS]

So, in light of the revelation of having possession of Jayme's phone and actually where they found it, makes the earlier revelation ...

Also, a K-9 trained to sniff out chemicals from concealed electronic devices has been utilized.

... all the more curious. Law enforcement has Denise's phone. They have Jayme's phone. I expect, but we don't know, that they have James' phone. So, what exactly were they looking for?

My working theory is that they were looking for some device that law enforcement had determined being utilized within the home based on cell records, internet provider records, or wi-fi device records/logs at some time prior to the events that took place October 15th and there was some expectation of finding the device in the home. The only things that come to mind are either a tablet or a phone - perhaps using wi-fi only in airplane mode.

I don't think they brought in the specialized K9 on a whim.

I had thought that bringing in the specialized K9 and then setting up surveillance cameras prior to very publicly announcing the scene was released (something we see rarely done) meant that law enforcement had some expectation that the person(s) responsible would return to the home to retrieve a particular device. Perhaps the two activities are not connected and were serving two separate purposes. I doubt it. But I find this to be a bit of a puzzle.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I wondered about the light. We had a motion detector light. But that one was on in the daytime so either they kept a light on all night or James turned it on when he went to the door.

One or the other, yep.

 

[gipsypup]

So, in light of the revelation of having possession of Jayme's phone and actually where they found it, makes the earlier revelation ...



... all the more curious. Law enforcement has Denise's phone. They have Jayme's phone. I expect, but we don't know, that they have James' phone. So, what exactly were they looking for?

My working theory is that they were looking for some device that law enforcement had determined being utilized within the home based on cell records, internet provider records, or wi-fi device records/logs at some time prior to the events that took place October 15th and there was some expectation of finding the device in the home. The only things that come to mind are either a tablet or a phone - perhaps using wi-fi only in airplane mode.

I don't think they brought in the specialized K9 on a whim.

I had thought that bringing in the specialized K9 and then setting up surveillance cameras prior to very publicly announcing the scene was released (something we see rarely done) meant that law enforcement had some expectation that the person(s) responsible would return to the home to retrieve a particular device. Perhaps the two activities are not connected and were serving two separate purposes. I doubt it. But I find this to be a bit of a puzzle.

The feds used this type of K9 in the Jared Fogle case (Subway stores)to locate a computer flash drive he used for storing his child on. Perhaps they are focusing mostly on the electronic trail now . IMO.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

"Question: Was the dad at the casino the night of the murders?
Sheriff Fitzgerald: Don't know the answer to that."

IMO, just because the Sheriff doesn't know the answer doesn't mean the investigators don't know.

ETA: If it was important the sheriff would have been told.

Then he should have known, because where a victim was, and who they may have interacted with , is one of the most important questions that needs to be answered in any crime. If Fitzgerald doesn't know the answer to this basic question, then we are in big trouble.

JMO

ETA: And also, if Fitzgerald doesn't know whether James was at the Casino or not, doesn't that pretty much tell us that he wasn't at work ? I mean, Jennie O does have time clocks, or the equivalent, don't they ? He was either at work or he was somewhere else. Like I said, it's not rocket science. If Fitzgerald doesn't want to answer , why doesn't he just say so ? Why say he doesn't know ? Smells like bullspit to me.

 

[Mica]

.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

So, in light of the revelation of having possession of Jayme's phone and actually where they found it, makes the earlier revelation ...



... all the more curious. Law enforcement has Denise's phone. They have Jayme's phone. I expect, but we don't know, that they have James' phone. So, what exactly were they looking for?

My working theory is that they were looking for some device that law enforcement had determined being utilized within the home based on cell records, internet provider records, or wi-fi device records/logs at some time prior to the events that took place October 15th and there was some expectation of finding the device in the home. The only things that come to mind are either a tablet or a phone - perhaps using wi-fi only in airplane mode.

I don't think they brought in the specialized K9 on a whim.

I had thought that bringing in the specialized K9 and then setting up surveillance cameras prior to very publicly announcing the scene was released (something we see rarely done) meant that law enforcement had some expectation that the person(s) responsible would return to the home to retrieve a particular device. Perhaps the two activities are not connected and were serving two separate purposes. I doubt it. But I find this to be a bit of a puzzle.

Exactly. And to add to the confusion, Fitzgerald tells us that nothing appears to have been taken from the home. I would assume this includes James' phone. I mean, that would be kind of hard to miss and LE most certainly would have been looking for it. So, I assume all 3 phones are accounted for (along with all other known electronic devices belonging to the Closses). Maybe I'm just confused ?

Puzzling indeed.

 

[KLM6]

So, in light of the revelation of having possession of Jayme's phone and actually where they found it, makes the earlier revelation ...



... all the more curious. Law enforcement has Denise's phone. They have Jayme's phone. I expect, but we don't know, that they have James' phone. So, what exactly were they looking for?

My working theory is that they were looking for some device that law enforcement had determined being utilized within the home based on cell records, internet provider records, or wi-fi device records/logs at some time prior to the events that took place October 15th and there was some expectation of finding the device in the home. The only things that come to mind are either a tablet or a phone - perhaps using wi-fi only in airplane mode.

I don't think they brought in the specialized K9 on a whim.

I had thought that bringing in the specialized K9 and then setting up surveillance cameras prior to very publicly announcing the scene was released (something we see rarely done) meant that law enforcement had some expectation that the person(s) responsible would return to the home to retrieve a particular device. Perhaps the two activities are not connected and were serving two separate purposes. I doubt it. But I find this to be a bit of a puzzle.

As for returning to the home, where they placed motion detectors (which caught the PT), there are also very small gps/tracking devices that are attached to things and they trigger a central alarm when moved even slightly. Ive wondered if they used those as well. Your thought process is very reasonable, imo.

 

[chili367]

The special K9 search could be as simple as looking for a perp's phone or just covering their bases as well.

 

[Ari_]

Then he should have known, because where a victim was, and who they may have interacted with , is one of the most important questions that needs to be answered in any crime. If Fitzgerald doesn't know the answer to this basic question, then we are in big trouble.

JMO

ETA: And also, if Fitzgerald doesn't know whether James was at the Casino or not, doesn't that pretty much tell us that he wasn't at work ? I mean, Jennie O does have time clocks, or the equivalent, don't they ? He was either at work or he was somewhere else. Like I said, it's not rocket science. If Fitzgerald doesn't want to answer , why doesn't he just say so ? Why say he doesn't know ? Smells like bullspit to me.

I really wish they would just say "I can't answer that at this time." All of these "I don't know" comments are just stupid. Of course he knows. Well, I'm sure he knows.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I really wish they would just say "I can't answer that at this time." All of these "I don't know" comments are just stupid. Of course he knows. Well, I'm sure he knows.

I get the distinct impression that Fitzgerald wasn't at all concerned with being precise or accurate in the Dryden Wyre interview. Which sort of begs the question, " Why do it at all ? ". Maybe I'm just missing something.

 

[Trino]

There is every indication Denise and James Closs were respectable, go-to-a-job-everyday, live-a-good-life parents who were raising a nice, well-behaved young girl. Unfortunately, the entire world isn't all that way. Decent people are forced to interact with scum. We don't know what went on with each Closs household member, albeit innocently.

It seems the focus has now gone beyond the crime itself to a behind the scenes investigation. Who did they know? In what capacity? What happened before the crime?

Targeted? My vote is yes.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Do school buses have video cams? I am thinking they may because people get busted for passing a school bus.

If LE has not looked, I think they need to look at school bus videos as well as videos of the time around when Jayme would be waiting for the bus as well as getting off the bus. Is there a consistent car?

I don't think they do. Every video I've ever seen of cars passing buses was either set up as a one-time deal by the media doing investigative reporting or with the bus driver taping her phone to the windshield for the same purpose. I would be surprised if this school district had actual dash cams. This is a major aggravation to me, how vehicles constantly put children at risk at bus stops, so I've watched quite a few of these videos.

 

[Intrigued25]

A new article with not much new except a detail about Jayme's phone
New Video Surveillance Search Expanded, Electronic Device Detecting K-9 Utilized in Jayme Closs Search

Perhaps LE suspected that a hidden camera had been placed in the home. ie. a St. Croix man was arrested for placing on in a juvenile's home in August 2018