AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #23

[MsBetsy]

But I don't get the slightest tick on my hinky meter where the family is concerned, do you ? Everything I have found, and everything I have not been able to find (if you follow my meaning) just screams to me that this is a normal, loving family, who genuinely adore Jayme and are terrified for her.

It's also possible that no one has petitioned for guardianship of Jayme because Denise and James had wills, and their wishes in the event of their deaths have already been made legally clear.

No, I certainly don't see any evidence that leads me to think the family could have done anything to have brought this upon themselves. And I would think the decision about guardianship or custody would be made once or if she is found alive. Is there some reason why they would have to do that now? Jmo

 

[1987]

But I don't get the slightest tick on my hinky meter where the family is concerned, do you ? Everything I have found, and everything I have not been able to find (if you follow my meaning) just screams to me that this is a normal, loving family, who genuinely adore Jayme and are terrified for her.

It's also possible that no one has petitioned for guardianship of Jayme because Denise and James had wills, and their wishes in the event of their deaths have already been made legally clear.

no in no way do I have any negative thoughts about the family. I think lack of guardianship is a oversight on their part, or they think they wont need it..that she is gone...I still think it is important to have a adult in place to act on her behalf, she might be found alive.

as for the killer and the lack of parents or guardians, well, I would think it would be easier to do as they pleased with no parents or other adults acting on her behalf.

 

[1987]

Why wouldn't a relative get custody of her? I don't see any reason she would have to become a ward of the state. I would think one of her aunts would be her legal guardian. Imo

with no petition to the court how do they become her legal guardian? I would assume there would be no issues if they filed.

 

[Jabarn]

The fact that Jayme was on her own in the mornings makes me think if she was the target why didn't the perp(s) try and take her then? If they knew of the family routine and it was a planned abduction then surely it would make more sense to arrive on some dark, cold rainy morning when Jayme was alone and take her then? There wouldn't be the need to kill James and Denise at all in this scenario.

That question is one that keeps coming up, and is stymying.

With the new information from the Sheriff and the media, it does apppear, and IMO, this crime started fast and with gunfire, it stopped dad Jim at the doorway, the 911 call happened, and mom Denise was found closer than Jim to the location of her phone (the one the 911 call was made).

It makes sense on a certain level Jayme would have been asleep when the crime started, but certainly would have been startled awake with all the shooting.

Assuming the shooter knew the 911 call had been made and help was on the way, Jayme may have been taken as a hostage, or a negotiation tool. That’s just a theory to possibly explain why she was taken if, and only if, the motive wasn’t to get her and one (or both parents) was the target. IMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think she would. Its all just a legality process.

Right, from what I know about family court is they always try to keep the child with a family member. If two members are petitioning for custody, they take the child's request as well as the home situation into consideration. Imo

 

[Mountain_Kat]

No, I certainly don't see any evidence that leads me to think the family could have done anything to have brought this upon themselves. And I would think the decision about guardianship or custody would be made once or if she is found alive. Is there some reason why they would have to do that now? Jmo

None that I am aware of. More to the point, in the event that Jayme is found, I can not imagine social services doing anything that would tear an already traumatized child away from her family, unless there was clear evidence that not doing so would further endanger her. I just don't see that at all. And in all probabilility, James and Denise would likely have had wills anyway. Don't most parents plan for the future in that way ? I'm not a parent, but if I were , I would absolutely have a will making my wishes with respect to my child in the event of my death crystal clear.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

IF her parents being gone makes her a ward of the state then I think that could be why killer killed parents. it concerns me IF no one has petitioned the court to be her guardian but yet there is a petition for the estate? IF she is thought to still be alive WHY would no one be asking for guardianship of her, her person, to be her representative for herself, not money, for the child.

They may not need to. Parents may have appointed someone as legal guardian in a will if they had one. The only reason to petition in that case would be if someone disagreed with parents choice of who would raise Jayme in the event of their demise.

 

[1987]

Right, from what I know about family court is they always try to keep the child with a family member. If two members are petitioning for custody, they take the child's request as well as the home situation into consideration. Imo

I agree. what happens when no one petitions?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He says its his gut feeling, and hope. He said in the Dryden interview its not evidenced based. I share his hope.

I think we all have that same hope.

 

[Gardener1850]

If theres money to be had, its going to go somewhere. IF there was a debt and someone knew there was money. How much would it take for info to be released and/or to get her back? Ive worried about their life insurance from the beginning. I hate to call it a ransom because that dont seem to happen, but, idk, that "debt" thing has bothered me alot where this is concerned. Ill tell you right now Im worth a heck of alot more, financially, when I die than I am alive. Arent alot of people people?

I may be wrong about this (and I'm sure someone will correct me) but even if there was an inheritance or insurance payout for Jayme it's not like whoever is in charge of it can just withdraw all the funds from the account for anything they want. JMO.

 

[KLM6]

I agree. what happens when no one petitions?

Out of all those people, someone will, if its not already pre-determined. That whole family clearly adores that little girl.

 

[MsBetsy]

with no petition to the court how do they become her legal guardian? I would assume there would be no issues if they filed.

They would probably place the child in that relatives home temporarily until the court process is complete. Especially if that family has a close relationship with the child. They would never place her in a foster home if they already have a family member who has a known established relationship with the child. They will always try to do what is in the child's best interest. Imo

 

[Mountain_Kat]

That question is one that keeps coming up, and is stymying.

With the new information from the Sheriff and the media, it does apppear, and IMO, this crime started fast and with gunfire, it stopped dad Jim at the doorway, the 911 call happened, and mom Denise was found closer than Jim to the location of her phone (the one the 911 call was made).

It makes sense on a certain level Jayme would have been asleep when the crime started, but certainly would have been startled awake with all the shooting.

Assuming the shooter knew the 911 call had been made and help was on the way, Jayme may have been taken as a hostage, or a negotiation tool. That’s just a theory to possibly explain why she was taken if, and only if, the motive wasn’t to get her and one (or both parents) was the target. IMO.

Exactly. It's also equally possible that Jayme was taken simply because the suspect(s) didn't dare risk another gunshot after the 911 call was made.

(But I really don't even want to imagine what THAT might mean for Jayme if that's why she was taken. )

 

[Jazzy5980]

I imagine the mortgage, heat, car payments, credit card bills wait for no one

This is precisely the reason the probate is moving forward so that all necessary expenses can be paid, creditors notified credit card accounts closed .....

 

[KLM6]

I may be wrong about this (and I'm sure someone will correct me) but even if there was an inheritance or insurance payout for Jayme it's not like whoever is in charge of it can just withdraw all the funds from the account for anything they want. JMO.

I dont know how it works, honestly. But ever since the beginning when someone mentioned debt, this came to my mind. I may be off base, and I truly hope I am. Its just a sinking worry Ive had. Ive seen people do some dumb things when it comes to inheritances and wills. People who have zero business involving themselves. But they do.

 

[Jabarn]

Exactly. It's also equally possible that Jayme was taken simply because the suspect(s) didn't dare risk another gunshot after the 911 call was made.

(But I really don't even want to imagine what THAT might mean for Jayme if that's why she was taken. )

It is just so hard to fathom what could be the result in either scenario. Hoping for a break soon, and glad to see the flurry of information coming out about all LE is doing to figure this out.

 

[1987]

They would probably place the child in that relatives home temporarily until the court process is complete. Especially if that family has a close relationship with the child. They would never place her in a foster home if they already have a family member who has a known established relationship with the child. They will always try to do what is in the child's best interest. Imo

I agree. but at this moment and every moment after parents deaths she does not and has not had a guardian. moo. there is a probate filed, that makes me think there was no directive in the case of their deaths. I would think if they thought she was alive they would want legal standing in place right away. not that I think anyone would be unfit for her.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

It is just so hard to fathom what could be the result in either scenario. Hoping for a break soon, and glad to see the flurry of information coming out about all LE is doing to figure this out.

Me too. Tomorrow morning, I think I'll clean up my own time line/fact sheet and take a second look at everything with fresh eyes. I'm always of the opinion that the real work we do here is to accurately archive these cases, and in this case, our "facts" are definitely much clearer now than they were a few days ago. Time to clean things up a bit.

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree. what happens when no one petitions?

Well, in this case I don't think that will be a problem, but generally they will always try to find a relative. If they can't, then they have to place the child in a foster home in the hope that they can find a family to adopt. The older the child, the harder that is. Sometimes the foster parents end up adopting. But Jayme seems to be very well loved so if she turns up alive she will have a family to live with, I'm sure. Jmo

 

[1987]

Well, in this case I don't think that will be a problem, but generally they will always try to find a relative. If they can't, then they have to place the child in a foster home in the hope that they can find a family to adopt. The older the child, the harder that is. Sometimes the foster parents end up adopting. But Jayme seems to be very well loved so if she turns up alive she will have a family to live with, I'm sure. Jmo

not to be sick but I don't know how else to say it, if she turns up half alive she needs guardians in place that instant not a week latter.