AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #23

[CuriousMaine]

How come the police had to call a school liaison officer to determine Jayme lived in that home? Wouldn't the neighbours have known that? That made me wonder - what time exactly did the cops go speak to the neighbours who heard what they thought were gunshots or a car backfiring? Did they wait until daybreak to speak with them?

BBM for focus: In my school district, the school liaison is aka the Resource Officer. They are employed by LE. They are essentially cops/investigators stationed at the school district. They know most of the kids and have access to school officials name/emergency numbers, etc. It could be a shortcut to information needed like "emergency contact person" for student. I recall filling those cards out and there was a section for alternative contact in case parents unable to be reached in emergency. JMO.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

As far as I've seen reported, it's not clear if the weapon used belong to/came with the perp(s) or if the Closs's own gun was used against them. All LE has said so far, afaik, is that (i) they found spent shell casings at the scene and (ii) no guns were found at the scene.

If the latter is true, zero guns in the house after the shooting, then it's possible/likely that the perp made off with any guns the Closs family had in the house--if the family had their own guns. It's possible the Closses had no guns of their own--but that'd be the exception in that part of the world. Most folks in those parts have at least a 22 or a shotgun.

And did LE find any boxes of unused shells in the home? If so, did the spent shells match up with the remaining shells still in the box?

One possibility is that the perp used the Closs's own gun and that gun only had enough rounds in it to shoot the two adults. Perp finds himself with an empty gun after shooting mom and dad and doesn't know where the family keeps their unused rounds; and so instead of shooting Jayme too decides to take her with and deal with her later.

Closs guns were all accounted for-that we know of.

 

[SadSadPanda]

Not sure if this has been posted yet...I check back every couple of days but not following along with the discussion as closely as without any new info the thread seems to be sort of looping on itself, with old ideas being new. Anyhoo...

Wisconsin police baffled by Jayme Closs disappearance one month after parents' murder

A couple quick hits I see that I believe might be new info:

-James had guns in the home, all are accounted for (police still not saying what type of gun was used)
-Phone used for 911 call was found on the floor, but not close to any bodies, 911 call sounded like it was from another room from the disturbance
-Article states door carried away looking like it was covered with bullet holes (if it's true, that would answer the question of where the shots came from and how James was shot most likely)
-Birthday party was at Denise' sister's home at 4pm, across town
-Jayme's cell phone was found in the kitchen plugged in to an outlet (I'm assuming charging)

I believe some of these details are new, if not, carry on! All IMHO, of course.

 

[Abba's Tears]

School Resource Officers (as also previously mentioned usually LE) may also be able to provide critical information about the student & family in question. Not only could the officer confirm that Jayme lived at that residence, if there had been issues at the home (which there has been no evidence of), but if there had, the officer may have been able to shed light on it quickly. The Resource Officers sometimes get to know the students quite well and know things about them that could be very valuable in a situation like this. Sadly, that doesn't appear to be the case here. At least that we know of at this time.

 

[BeeGirl]

Forgive me if this topic has been beaten to death (I've been out of the loop for a few days and am just catching back up) but I find it interesting the Sheriff is now admitting they have all 3 phones, including Jayme's.

The Wisconsin Department of Criminal Investigation used a specially-trained dog to sniff out electronic devices at the Closs home, but none of the devices that were found have yielded any clues, including the three cellphones that belonged to Jayme and her parents, Fitzgerald said. “There was nothing out of the ordinary, no boyfriends, nothing on there that points us in any direction,” he said.​

This is a markedly different statement than the one he gave earlier on when he said he didn't know if she had the phone:

BANFIELD: Ok. So often times when a young person goes missing, the digital trail is almost like a popcorn trail, which leads me to the question about Jamie`s social media. 13-year-old girls are almost always on their phones or on some form of social media, I`m guessing, and I think it`s a good guess. You have been blanketing that angle. Have you found any information from her social media? Is it possible she has a phone with her?

FITZGERALD: I do not know the answer to the second part of the question, if she had the phone with her. I can tell you that we are looking at the social media platform. Again, that is why our partners in the FBI are so key in this, because they have the experts for smaller agencies like mine in a county of 44,000 people.
​

Did he suspect she had a different phone? Did he not find her phone until later?

I can't make heads or tails out of this but maybe I'm just trying to read tea leaves here.

 

[pepper 34]

Can’t help wondering if the dog was hiding...I know we have been over this...but if she had been right there, barking, I doubt she would have survived. Dogs are the first to go, sometimes, just for doing their jobs. Ijust can’t picture where she would have been in all the chaos.

Molly might have slept on Jayme's bed every night. She may have hidden under the bed or elsewhere in the room. It's just a feeling but I think Jayme stayed in her room wondering why someone was at the front door so late at night. Curiosity and some slight apprehension? ... has something awful happened to one her family members? (these would be my thoughts in her place) I highly doubt she would have come out of her room to be the first person to answer the door. I think she would have waited to "hear" who it was and what was going on. Everything happened so quickly with the breaking down of the door and shots being fired, the sound of her father falling down and hitting the floor. I think she might have made a break for the sliding glass door to try to run and get help; knowing her phone was in the kitchen and she couldn't call 911. Maybe ran because, meanwhile, her mother is fighting and running for her life and unable to help her and may have even called out to Jayme to "run." All jmo.

 

[Nerissa]

Thanks Sadsadpanda
Can't get link to open (just my phone)
I thought that they left the party at 4 - not that it began at four....?

 

[SadSadPanda]

Thanks Sadsadpanda
Can't get link to open (just my phone)
I thought that they left the party at 4 - not that it began at four....?

From the article: "Both mother and daughter attended a family birthday party at around 4 p.m. on Oct. 14 at the home of Denise Closs's sister"

 

[SadSadPanda]

From the same article...has the timeline on this changed and I missed it?

"At just past 1 a.m. local time on Oct. 15, the 911 call was placed to the sheriff’s office from Denise Closs's cell. When the call ended abruptly, a dispatcher called the landline at the family's home but it was disconnected."

Just past 1 a.m.? Might be a reporting error?

 

[Nerissa]

Thanks!
Must have misunderstood another poster who said they left at 4
So they were home by 8.30, we know this since Denise texted her sister.
Wonder if they stopped anywhere on the way home?

 

[andreww]

From the article: "Both mother and daughter attended a family birthday party at around 4 p.m. on Oct. 14 at the home of Denise Closs's sister"

Party began at 1:00, they left at 4:00.

 

[BeeGirl]

Molly might have slept on Jayme's bed every night. She may have hidden under the bed or elsewhere in the room. It's just a feeling but I think Jayme stayed in her room wondering why someone was at the front door so late at night. Curiosity and some slight apprehension? ... has something awful happened to one her family members? (these would be my thoughts in her place) I highly doubt she would have come out of her room to be the first person to answer the door. I think she would have waited to "hear" who it was and what was going on. Everything happened so quickly with the breaking down of the door and shots being fired, the sound of her father falling down and hitting the floor. I think she might have made a break for the sliding glass door to try to run and get help; knowing her phone was in the kitchen and she couldn't call 911. Maybe ran because, meanwhile, her mother is fighting and running for her life and unable to help her and may have even called out to Jayme to "run." All jmo.

I agree with this. Especially with the new info that Jayme's phone was charging in the kitchen; that says to me that she was in bed as scheduled.

In my house, we have a rule: the phone doesn't stay in the kid's room at night. We actually have a "phone box" she has to put it in before going to bed. I suspect a lot of other parents also do this.

 

[pepper 34]

One thing I’ve been thinking a lot about is that, the perp had to have known that James wouldn’t have a gun handy himself for the killer as soon as the door opened or was being kicked in.

That is why I think we'll find out, eventually, that the door was shot through. If that's the case, anyone on the inside of the door has lost any advantage. Then the door is kicked in.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

Observation. The FBI has Jayme listed as endangered missing and has Hania listed as kidnapped. I have always been of the opinion that Jayme was abducted. Both are endangered, imo. I tried to research how the FBI classifies and distinguishes one from the other. I couldn’t find anything that addresses my question specifically.

 

[margarita25]

Closs guns were all accounted for-that we know of.

Hi, just checking in and behind here.

This is an interesting new development to me that I had not heard yet, do you please have a link for this? Thanks in advance. I have been asking about this since the beginning—-last I heard there were no guns found in the home and I have been wondering about James’ hunting guns. So they’ve been accounted for? Where were they? When did LE confirm this? Thanks again.

—-

ETA: just seeing this post, nevermi d, thanks:

Not sure if this has been posted yet...I check back every couple of days but not following along with the discussion as closely as without any new info the thread seems to be sort of looping on itself, with old ideas being new. Anyhoo...

Wisconsin police baffled by Jayme Closs disappearance one month after parents' murder

A couple quick hits I see that I believe might be new info:

-James had guns in the home, all are accounted for (police still not saying what type of gun was used)
-Phone used for 911 call was found on the floor, but not close to any bodies, 911 call sounded like it was from another room from the disturbance
-Article states door carried away looking like it was covered with bullet holes (if it's true, that would answer the question of where the shots came from and how James was shot most likely)
-Birthday party was at Denise' sister's home at 4pm, across town
-Jayme's cell phone was found in the kitchen plugged in to an outlet (I'm assuming charging)

I believe some of these details are new, if not, carry on! All IMHO, of course.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It was made from Denise’s phone, so logic would suggest that Denise made the call. I do not think it was made after she was shot; if it was, it would have been found closer to her body. I believe she was in her bedroom, made the call to get the open line, and then dropped it as she ran to protect her daughter. That is why I believe the “commotion” in the background is heard at a distance.

moo.

I am not sure I know who really made the call. It's hard to say when Fitzgerald said it may have been kicked away. It just may have landed closer in the general area of Denise's body.

I still think the 911 call may have been made by Jayme. I just get the feeling by then both parents were already dead or dying unable to call anyone.

Since Jayme's phone was still own charge I think she would have grabbed her mom's to make the call.

This may be one of the reasons Fitzgerald knows Jayme is not a suspect in this case. Those involved are not going to call 911 for help.

Jmo of course.

 

[pepper 34]

.

 

[SandyQLS]

Given the lack of progress within the scope of the Closs family normal routine, local usual suspects, tips, cars on video, electronics... I am wondering if the Closs family, specifically Jayme, was anywhere unusual just recently. I am thinking about annual events where total stranger pervert might have seen her and developed an obsession.

- Barron County Fair, Rice Lake, WI, July 18-22, 2018. (looks like so much fun, even a Catholic prayer service)
Events/Judging Schedule - BARRON COUNTY FAIR — RICE LAKE, WISCONSIN

- Oktoberfest is huge in WI with 40% of the population claiming some German heritage. Events run in September and October, here is a link to the large ones. In nearby Chippewa Falls, the Oktoberfest draws 14,000-16,000 people and was held Sept 15-17, 2018, at the North Wisconsin State Fairgrounds.
Oktoberfest in Wisconsin 2018 - Find WI Oktoberfest Dates & Locations

- There are other Fall Festivals and early Halloween public events.

- There are also apple events. Fall is the time of year to visit farms for a bucket of apples, eat fresh farm-baked apple pie; also not just pumpkin season, but all sorts of squash grown in WI.

The problems with a public event encounter are that neither Jayme nor her parents or other relatives may have noticed she had attracted a stalker; that if DC or Jim did notice, they are gone and cannot explain; if Jayme had some creep try to talk to her, she is missing and cannot tell anyone. No ID necessary at such public venues so that's a needle in a haystack -

except one place I can think of

which are the many, many private and public shooting ranges all over WI.

We now know that Jim did own hunting rifles that he kept in the home and they are accounted for.
Wisconsin police baffled by Jayme Closs disappearance one month after parents' murder

IDK but it seems to me that hunters planning for annual deer season would want to go out and fire some practice shots, warm up their guns, clean them, buy ammo. I wonder if Jim was in the habit of doing this every Fall, Sept-Oct. I wonder if he would go with a male relative or close friend or hunting buddy, fun weekend afternoon doing 'guy stuff'. I wonder if he took Jayme with him this year thinking she was now old enough and big enough to learn to shoot and importantly, to learn about gun safety. There would be a lot of general public people at a range, strangers, maybe a pervert saw Jayme there. The one good thing is that ranges typically require ID so that if anyone gets shot or other accident, they know exactly who was present.

I wonder if LE has asked the family-friends-coworkers if Jim took Jayme to an outdoor long gun shooting range for the first time just recently, and if so, has LE checked out the people who were there at the same time. We know the Unsub is comfortable with guns, able to kill, maybe a hunter.

Thanks MsBetsy.

 

[margarita25]

“"No one talked on that call and we don't know who made it. We heard voices but we can’t make out what was said," he said, adding that it sounded as though the call was made in a room separate from the commotion.“

Wisconsin police baffled by Jayme Closs disappearance one month after parents' murder

 

[oceanblueeyes]

“"No one talked on that call and we don't know who made it. We heard voices but we can’t make out what was said," he said, adding that it sounded as though the call was made in a room separate from the commotion.“

Wisconsin police baffled by Jayme Closs disappearance one month after parents' murder

This makes me believe more than ever the call was placed by Jayme when the murderer was distracted... in the middle of murdering Denise at the time.

Jmo