AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #24

[stephlovescheese]

WATCH – One Month Missing: The Closs Mystery special report

@BlinkOfAnI i think it’s this one- i didn’t rewatch it though- solely going off memory...for what that’s worth...memory and all

 

[CocoChanel]

I have no theory of a motive to offer, only my own sense that this was a 6-degrees-of-separation type crime of opportunity. I think it is someone known to the family, probably on the periphery of their family relationships and friendships. That is a very wide circle to sift through, but probably more manageable since it is a small community rather than NYC for example. I hope LE has enough manpower to continue an intense thorough investigation. Don’t you wish we could help....somehow, some way???

 

[margarita25]

A general observation:

I find it ironic and disturbing that here we are with two (so far unsolved) missing 13 year old girls/Amber Alerts and that in both discussions the nature of these abductions is unique and crosses over into new territories such as home invasions, family murder and carjacking.

In other words, all of our experience in cases involving your average pedophile/hebephile perp may not even be applicable here, demonstrating hopefully NOT a new trend in our increasingly violent society. As @Hatfield mentioned, some of these cases are much harder to solve than we could have originally thought.

 

[MntnHiker]

Someone earlier mentioned something about spouses, etc. of co-workers, and that's the first time I thought about that possibility. We've said that we doubt at this point it's a co-worker because they probably would have missed work or acted super strangely at work and that anyone with a grudge against one of the Closses probably would have been well-known.

But what if this was a co-worker who held a grudge or was angry at one of the Closses and vented about it to a spouse? They kept to themselves about it at work but went home and let it all out and concocted a plan with a spouse or other family member/close friend? The co-worker themselves didn't go to the house but this spouse/family member did and they committed the crime. At work, the co-worker would still show up and go about their business normally and no one at work would have any idea they harbored such feelings toward the Closses because they just never talked about it. All JMO of course but another possibility I never examined much before.

 

[margarita25]

Someone earlier mentioned something about spouses, etc. of co-workers, and that's the first time I thought about that possibility. We've said that we doubt at this point it's a co-worker because they probably would have missed work or acted super strangely at work and that anyone with a grudge against one of the Closses probably would have been well-known.

But what if this was a co-worker who held a grudge or was angry at one of the Closses and vented about it to a spouse? They kept to themselves about it at work but went home and let it all out and concocted a plan with a spouse or other family member/close friend? The co-worker themselves didn't go to the house but this spouse/family member did and they committed the crime. At work, the co-worker would still show up and go about their business normally and no one at work would have any idea they harbored such feelings toward the Closses because they just never talked about it. All JMO of course but another possibility I never examined much before.

Yes, while one of the main elements in the FBI’s generally used suspect profile is “may be acting strangely or may have missed work, etc.”, we have seen plenty of perps who go about their regular business and show up to work, etc.

 

[CuriousMaine]

A general observation:

I find it ironic and disturbing that here we are with two (so far unsolved) missing 13 year old girls/Amber Alerts and that in both discussions the nature of these abductions is unique and crosses over into new territories such as home invasions, family murder and carjacking.

In other words, all of our experience in cases involving your average pedophile/hebephile perp may not even be applicable here, demonstrating hopefully NOT a new trend in our increasingly violent society. As @Hatfield mentioned, some of these cases are much harder to solve than we could have originally thought.

BBM: compared to when/what society? Violent crime is nearly half what it was in the mid 70's. I haven't seen any evidence or reason to rule out a SA motive in either case.

 

[sumzero]

Someone earlier mentioned something about spouses, etc. of co-workers, and that's the first time I thought about that possibility. We've said that we doubt at this point it's a co-worker because they probably would have missed work or acted super strangely at work and that anyone with a grudge against one of the Closses probably would have been well-known.

But what if this was a co-worker who held a grudge or was angry at one of the Closses and vented about it to a spouse? They kept to themselves about it at work but went home and let it all out and concocted a plan with a spouse or other family member/close friend? The co-worker themselves didn't go to the house but this spouse/family member did and they committed the crime. At work, the co-worker would still show up and go about their business normally and no one at work would have any idea they harbored such feelings toward the Closses because they just never talked about it. All JMO of course but another possibility I never examined much before.

...and took Jayme because...?

 

[sumzero]

BBM: compared to when/what society? Violent crime is nearly half what it was in the mid 70's. I haven't seen any evidence or reason to rule out a SA motive in either case.

Yep, the motive is probably one we’ve seen many times before. The who and how is what changes from one case to the next.

 

[MntnHiker]

...and took Jayme because...?

I don't know but many of the possible scenarios are not making sense to me in regards to Jayme. I think it's going to be hard for us to get into this criminal's mind. It's also a bit odd for a sex offender focused on a young girl to come in aggressively and shoot and kill both parents. This is just a really weird crime all around.

 

[sumzero]

I’m not sure that proves she was in the house when her parents were killed. That phone could have been plugged in for any length of time. Is there actual proof her phone was there or is it theory??

The sheriff said they “know” all three Closses were in the house at 10 pm. If so, with school and work the next day, it’s a good bet they never left again.

 

[margarita25]

BBM: compared to when/what society? Violent crime is nearly half what it was in the mid 70's. I haven't seen any evidence or reason to rule out a SA motive in either case.

I haven’t seen anything to rule out SA motive either.

Just saying that there are obviously many other elements that are being considered here, revenge, home invasion gone bad, etc etc.

As for violent crime stats, well that’s probably another discussion and there are definitely differing opinions on that. I probably should have stated my post better earlier. All I know is I have created 4 mass shooting threads in 12 days. There has always been violence and murder over time, no doubt about that.

It would be interesting to see where the stats are home invasion wise...are they increasing? I know the search results were infinite when I posted some of these cases a while back showing the prevalence of dual and multiple perps in those incidents.

 

[sumzero]

I don't know but many of the possible scenarios are not making sense to me in regards to Jayme. I think it's going to be hard for us to get into this criminal's mind. It's also a bit odd for a sex offender focused on a young girl to come in aggressively and shoot and kill both parents. This is just a really weird crime all around.

Odd? I don’t know. What someone will do, the lengths to which they will go, never ceases to amaze me.

 

[MntnHiker]

It's also possible that if it was related to a co-worker thinking one or both Closses were horrible people, horrible enough to do this to them, that they felt they wanted to "save" their daughter and she is currently being held captive with them. Who knows? I just hope they are able to get the person(s) who did this and find Jayme.

 

[kc1023]

Saw this on a local (Indy) news FB as I was nodding off last night. I'm sure we've already seen this but just in case, it does mention that Kozak the K-9 electronics sniffing good boy found a tablet at Jayme's (the person speaking in the article thinks he did anyway) house. I don't think that's super unusual or exciting, they could probably find a few old tablets and phones going through my kids rooms but here you go:

One-of-a-kind dog helps sniff out child in Wisconsin

snip:
But Kozak also works on homicide, drug and missing persons cases, too, anything where electronic storage units are involved.

He is deployed all over the state of Wisconsin. Recently, Kozak helped search the home of missing teenager Jayme Closs. Mech said he believed he recovered a tablet in that search.

Mech said he's been used eight times so far, recovering 14 devices.

Mech said it's too early to tell if the evidence he recovered will help in the cases.

 

[x_files]

I don't know but many of the possible scenarios are not making sense to me in regards to Jayme. I think it's going to be hard for us to get into this criminal's mind. It's also a bit odd for a sex offender focused on a young girl to come in aggressively and shoot and kill both parents. This is just a really weird crime all around.

Research Home Invasions. The more I research the more Home Invasion fits. The family was targeted either because of Jayme, randomly planned or spur of the moment with little no planning at all except to rob, terrorize the family. Either the criminals know this family or are complete strangers.

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't know but many of the possible scenarios are not making sense to me in regards to Jayme. I think it's going to be hard for us to get into this criminal's mind. It's also a bit odd for a sex offender focused on a young girl to come in aggressively and shoot and kill both parents. This is just a really weird crime all around.

Maybe his intention was to murder two people as well as abduct, assault and kill a child. His motive could have been of a sexual nature and killing the parents was just part of the thrill to him. It could be as simple as that. Imo

 

[natureaker]

It's also possible that if it was related to a co-worker thinking one or both Closses were horrible people, horrible enough to do this to them, that they felt they wanted to "save" their daughter and she is currently being held captive with them. Who knows? I just hope they are able to get the person(s) who did this and find Jayme.

Or maybe Jayme could've been taken so there wouldn't be any witnesses to her parents murder and then maybe are holding her captive or even worse... Just a thought.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I really believe that if a male voice not matched to James’ voice mail or by some other manner was heard on the 911 call, that LE would have that snip isolated for family to hear. And if a young female voice WAS heard, that would be enough to assume it was Jayme’s, and later could have been matched to her voice mail. Jmo

Imo the police are reluctant to discuss the particular details concerning any evidence they may have in their possession with anyone outside of the investigation.

Once they do so they know the family members may innocently mention it to others including the wrong person.

I have found LE keeps all evidence among themselves only especially when an arrest hasn't been made.

Now they may bring them in one by one once they know who the suspect is and before an arrest is made but only if the suspect turns out to be someone the extended family members would know.

I dont think they are going to let anyone hear any of it for now though which is understandable. The family could misidentify someone too. Average people arent experts on analyzing voices.

Plus if he is caught and tried the DA would have to turnover everything and if any family members misidentified anyone the defense would use that in court.

But once LE has a suspect in the crosshairs and if they know the suspect would be known by family members is when it would be advantageous to bring them in individually to see if they all identify the same subject without know the name of who it is.

I dont expect LE to release any part of the 911 call to anyone or let anyone hear any part of it at this time. LE has valid reasons for not doing so even if we don't understand.

I dont think it was very hard for LE to identify Jayme's voice overheard on the 911 enchanced call. A child's voice is easy to determine vs. an adult 46 year old woman.

Jmo

 

[kkdj]

The sheriff said they “know” all three Closses were in the house at 10 pm. If so, with school and work the next day, it’s a good bet they never left again.

Denise was on the phone with her sister at 10:00 p.m. and at that time all the Closs's were home. It seemed to her sister everything was fine. This invasion, murder and taking Jayme all happened quickly and I believe closer to 1:00 a.m. This was at a time they would have all been vulnerable. This is another reason I think this had planning and was not a random act. Nothing was taken, except Jayme. I believe the intent was to execute her parents immediately in order to take Jayme without a fight. It didn't take long nor did it need to. Mission accomplished. The question is why did they want Jayme? There's not many options to consider with an answer to that.
all jmo imo imho

 

[cluciano63]

If there IS a male voice on the call, which I doubt, I think LE would compare it to tapes of interviews of all males closest to the family, which could take a while, as they would probably have to have this done elsewhere.

With a possible alive victim, I don’t think they would play word games...if the call could help in any way, they would release just the snippet that could cause someone to recognize the voice.