AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #24

[andreww]

Cell phones are located using triangulation, and since the house was somewhat rural, many phones can be ruled out because they are not within the triangulation area. Other phones can be ruled out because they are assigned to a local residence. If the abductor is local, then this method of identifying a suspect will not work. If the abductor is not local, then it may be one method to identify a list of potential suspects.

My only point is that the suspect does not have to be identified to know where his cell phone was on the night of the abduction. Cell towers will identify phones that were in the area and a suspect can be identified based on a review of phones in the area at the time of the abduction. Reasons this may not work are that the suspect's phone was turned off prior to approaching the house, or the phone belongs in the area because the suspect is local.

I don't think you are correct. If they had a specific number they were looking at, yes triangulation would be a tool that they could use. Yes, you could theoretically make a definition between local and out of town phones, but we have no clue as to whether the perp was a local, so that is meaningless.

 

[bellyup]

The neighbors reported two shots roughly 30 minutes prior to the 911 call. Isn't that one of the clear facts of Jayme's disappearance?

I think the neighbor reporting two shots is a clear fact. The order of loudness has been reported two different ways (ie; first shot ... no second shot was louder).

Based on the wording "riddled with bullet holes" from the news article and "multiple rounds spent" from the police I have to believe that there was more than two shots fired that night but that's just speculation and not substantiated.

 

[muppethead]

Yes

"During a Wednesday evening news conference, Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald said autopsies on the parents had been completed, and that they had died from gunshot wounds."

source: Search intensifies for missing teen, days after parents found shot to death in Wisconsin home

Here is a link. What it does not say is what, if anything else, was done to Jayme's parents.

 

[KLM6]

The neighbors would have heard more than two shots then right?

Im not sure what you are asking me. I have no idea how many times the door was shot, if it was shot. I have no idea how many shots were fired at all, other than "multiple". Im positive the neighbors didnt hear every shot fired that night. ??

 

[DoubleN1993]

I hope that girl Jayme be found , this story is shocking two parents died and the girl went missing
I hate to imagine what Jayme will go through the traumatising bad memories if she was found alive.

 

[otto]

Or...a list of active phones in the area around that time. Someone could have borrowed / stolen someone else's phone for this particular crime... or used a burner....

There are exceptions to successfully using this method to identify a suspect with cell phone tower data such as burner phone, phone turned off, or the suspect is local and the phone has a legitimate reason to be in the area.

Point being that one option is to find the suspect and then use the phone to confirm that he was at the house, the other is to find the cell phone that was in the area and match it to a suspect.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

I think it's more likely the dog just had blood in his fur from the victims and so they shaved it down. They may have tested it but I'm not hopeful there's anything there. DNA results would have been returned likely by two weeks or sooner (with FBI involvement) after Jayme went missing.

I'm

If they thought the dog MIGHT have any DNA on it, the police would have had it examined before releasing it to the family. Its entirely possible that they did find blood from someone on the dog hair...Maybe they snipped a section of it, and we just don't know it because it wasn't visible to us at the time when family had the dog for their presser. I highly doubt they'd go back this long after the fact to get hair from the dog etc... but hey, who knows...

I was actually thinking in reverse(not the dog having someones DNA) but as mentioned in the articles. Who would have thought any of it possible?

 

[otto]

Sure they could, but pretty much every phone in Barron is going to ping off the same tower. The data is just that, a list of numbers. There is no location and no tracking of movement.

If the suspect does not live in Barron, then cell tower data can be useful to identify phones that were in the area on the night of the abduction, and the data could lead to a phone, and then to a suspect.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

deleted by me

 

[OhThatVictoria]

I was just looking at an exterior shot of the Closs home . . . again . . . Notice the grass, to the right of the driveway . . . Doesn’t that look like tire marks? I’m wondering if someone drove up on the lawn to be closer to that front door the night of the murder.

If so, they also could have been made by LE . . . Have we talked about this previously on a thread?

 

[otto]

I think the neighbor reporting two shots is a clear fact. The order of loudness has been reported two different ways (ie; first shot ... no second shot was louder).

Based on the wording "riddled with bullet holes" from the news article and "multiple rounds spent" from the police I have to believe that there was more than two shots fired that night but that's just speculation and not substantiated.

I look at the first responder comments about "riddled with bullet holes" and "suicide" together as shocked first reaction.

 

[bizzle2]

The neighbors reported two shots roughly 30 minutes prior to the 911 call. Isn't that one of the clear facts of Jayme's disappearance?

The timing of the shots isn't a clear fact.

LE has never said anything about those shots. I definitely believe they heard shots, but I'm doubtful that the neighbors are correct about the time.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

LE would have taken Mollie from the scene if she showed evidence potential, and returned her after processing. I doubt they would return her a mess, but who knows.

Just one example, it's not the hair, it's the saliva and hair: "Missing Child Found Using Dog Hairs: The Murder of Danielle Van Dam
In February 2001, 7-year old Danielle Nicole Van Dam disappeared from her bed in San Diego. Her frantic parents didn’t know exactly when she disappeared—at night or early the following morning—and police had very little to work on.

Then a suspect slowly shifted into view—David Westerfield, who lived alone across from the Van Dam house. He was a meticulous gardener who left his house the morning Danielle was discovered missing. While other neighbors assisted in searching for the missing girl, Westerfield packed up his RV and left.

Because of Westerfield’s suspicious behavior, police obtained a search warrant for his house. Inside, police found dog hair similar to that of the Van Dam family’s dog
How Animal DNA Puts Killers Behind Bars
Prosecutors argued the dog hair was clinging to Van Dam’s pajamas when Westerfield kidnapped her from her bedroom.

Westerfield was convicted of Van Dam’s abduction and murder and was sentenced to death on August 21, 2002.

“This is the kind of case we’ve seen most often, when we find a body wrapped in a comforter, sheet or tape, and there is animal hair stuck in the material,” says Lindquist. “The unique thing about animal hair is that dogs and cats groom themselves, so they are putting saliva on the shaft of the hair. We are more likely to find DNA [on animal hair] than on human hair because animal saliva is individual. Then animal DNA can be used as one of the pieces of the evidence puzzle.”
ETC

 

[otto]

The timing of the shots isn't a clear fact.

LE has never said anything about those shots. I definitely believe they heard shots, but I'm doubtful that the neighbors are correct about the time.

I understand. If we doubt the earwitness account about the timing of the shots, and the number of shots, then we have even less information to work with. This would allow us to imagine many more scenarios about what may have happened.

 

[bellyup]

I look at the first responder comments about "riddled with bullet holes" and "suicide" together as shocked first reaction.

"ADVISED OF A POSSIBLE SUICIDE ATTEMPT" was how it was dispatched. That didn't come from first responders.

I don't think it was shocked reaction coming from the dispatcher. I firmly believe something led the 911 dispatcher to believe it was a possible suicide call.

 

[andreww]

The timing of the shots isn't a clear fact.

LE has never said anything about those shots. I definitely believe they heard shots, but I'm doubtful that the neighbors are correct about the time.

Why do you say that? Seems like they gave an exact time, not an estimate. Police adjusted for the time difference the next morning.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Unknown, but I'd assume the perp left the same way he came in.

There are exceptions to successfully using this method to identify a suspect with cell phone tower data such as burner phone, phone turned off, or the suspect is local and the phone has a legitimate reason to be in the area.

Point being that one option is to find the suspect and then use the phone to confirm that he was at the house, the other is to find the cell phone that was in the area and match it to a suspect.

It would be great if u could look at cell phones hitting tower last 24 months.
If perp isn’t local u would think they would be able to narrow down.... although that’s gotta be large no
Of cell phones to go through.

 

[human]

Can they not locate phones hitting nearby tower at that time ?? Then confirm which phones ping other towers later in the morning?? Essentially tracking perp
Moving away ?? I think they can it’s just red tape and lag in getting info from each tower ??

I posted the legal issues with cell phone tower dumps much earlier. Maybe that is something to be discussed again?

 

[otto]

"ADVISED OF A POSSIBLE SUICIDE ATTEMPT" was how it was dispatched. That didn't come from first responders.

I don't think it was shocked reaction coming from the dispatcher. I firmly believe something led the 911 dispatcher to believe it was a possible suicide call.

Regardless of when or why it happened, we know it was an error that was initially circulated. Similarly, if police entered a scene with two people down, signs of a struggle, and lots of blood, they may have made the wrong initial assessment.

 

[human]

Cell towers will have a record of all phone numbers that routed through the towers at the time that Jayme was abducted. If the abductor's phone was turned on, and if the phone used a number that is registered to an owner, then it should be possible to narrow down the list of people in the area at the time of the abduction.

What are the legal issues with getting that data?