AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #27

[Andreee]

Sadly nothing is.

Ain't that the truth! (unfortunately)

 

[DutchTreat]

If you're planning to kill two adults and abduct a 13 year old, the 'best' time to do so would be when everyone is asleep.
Totally unexpected, no time to call 911 or grab a gun.

What if the shots the neighbours heard around 00.31 were test shots to see if the Closses were sound asleep.
If lights would have gone out at say 00.05 and you fire two loud shots half an our later and the lights stay off, you could assume people are asleep, or at least could have fallen asleep again by the time you show up at their door. Pretending to be hunting is also a great way to check things out.

 

[Rubiconbob]

If you're planning to kill two adults and abduct a 13 year old, the 'best' time to do so would be when everyone is asleep.
Totally unexpected, no time to call 911 or grab a gun.

What if the shots the neighbours heard around 00.31 were test shots to see if the Closses were sound asleep.
If lights would have gone out at say 00.05 and you fire two loud shots half an our later and the lights stay off, you could assume people are asleep, or at least could have fallen asleep again by the time you show up at their door. Pretending to be hunting is also a great way to check things out.

Night of seems doubtful... week or two before seems well thought out. Even if people think hunters... bears wolves.. wouldn’t you check your garage door and make sure pets in... but dry run week ahead.. you make sense .

 

[DutchTreat]

Night of seems doubtful... week or two before seems well thought out. Even if people think hunters... bears wolves.. wouldn’t you check your garage door and make sure pets in... but dry run week ahead.. you make sense .

Yeah, the locked door thing is a smart one. Maybe the Closses usually didn't lock their front door, but because of those 00.31 shots, this time they did. So maybe the kicking in of the door was not something the perp had anticipated.

I really wish we would know if anyone came forward who fired those 00.31 shots. Because I don't think the neighbours are making things up. And they also must have been different shots. Cause the second shot was louder than the first one. I cannot think of a scenario in which the second shot at the Closs home would have been louder than the first.

 

[OhThatVictoria]

Could have been two or more perps, of course. But the glass door thing could have easily been handled by just one perp. I've kicked in a house's door while holding open a glass storm door -- didn't require any special gymnastics. And while I've never fired a gun through a door (and there's no confirmation by LE that that happened at the Closs house), I don't think it would be much of a problem to have a glass storm door resting against your backside while firing a gun through a house's front door.

I believe that the exterior glass door is referred to as a storm door. It swaps out screens for glass (by season). It also has a small compressor (thingie) that has a slide gadget which allows the door to remain open. I don’t know if the shooter had the presence of mind to use that, but if he did, the door would not be in the way.

 

[Andreee]

I would agree except for the fact that most of the questions surrounding the caretaker were not only discussed, but also answered on the way back threads, though. Considerable time was spent on it and we had poster who had direct knowledge of the school district arrangements and policies there and they were able to shed a lot of light on how they operate around changing schools.

Agree with you.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It was stated not too long ago that Denise spoke on the phone with one of her sisters at 10 pm and all 3 were home then and fine. MOO

Imagine only vague , at 10:33 pm or 10:48 pm or 11.01 pm or whenever the home perhaps wasn't any more as calm and peaceful as before .... We don't know. Strangely the time between 10 pm and the 2 thundering shots, heard by neighbors, and what may have going on there, are always only dismissed as "rumors". There's nothing to be done about that, until further notice. Shrugging ...

 

[Trino]

I would agree except for the fact that most of the questions surrounding the caretaker were not only discussed, but also answered on the way back threads, though. Considerable time was spent on it and we had poster who had direct knowledge of the school district arrangements and policies there and they were able to shed a lot of light on how they operate around changing schools.

Still, we're not entitled to an opinion when someone else brings it up? Actually, if I remember correctly, I am probably the one who initiated this past discussion. If you do not wish to contribute, that's fine, but perhaps there are those of us who would like to further comment. These questions have never been addressed by LE so I believe such is open for polite discussions.

We have no idea of the caretaker's days, hours, if she stopped somewhere after picking up Jayme or if she took Jayme directly to her home or to Jayme's house or if Jayme was able to use online resources at her home.

 

[Ragnarok]

Yeah, the locked door thing is a smart one. Maybe the Closses usually didn't lock their front door, but because of those 00.31 shots, this time they did. So maybe the kicking in of the door was not something the perp had anticipated.

I really wish we would know if anyone came forward who fired those 00.31 shots. Because I don't think the neighbours are making things up. And they also must have been different shots. Cause the second shot was louder than the first one. I cannot think of a scenario in which the second shot at the Closs home would have been louder than the first.

Possible two different caliber firearms or neighbors were more attuned and aware after first shot. Not enough factual information or trust in the neighbors to know.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

Good morning everyone!

Who took Jayme?

How can we figure this out?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I want to emphasize this is MY opinion only.

I know theories abound when cases remain unsolved but for me it makes me feel so uncomfortable when the theories turn to blaming the victims especially when there hasn't been one shred or hint to support so many of them.

Someone said the police should come out and tell the public if the family had financial difficulties. WTH? It is inferring this happened due to them having financial difficulties and brought this on themselves. Based on what I ask?

Then some seem to believe 100 pound Jayme should have fought like a raging 600 pound tiger when facing a double brutal murderer who had just shot her parents dead in cold blood? Seriously?

Grown adults both men and women have been kidnapped by suspects and they didnt fight or flee either unfortunately but somehow a tiny 13 year old terrorized and traumatized child should be different?

Squirming 40 pound toddlers arent under the total control of armed cold blooded murderers.

Then I see some say Jayme went willingly even though Fitzgerald has made it very clear he has found no evidence Jayme had a boyfriend of any age and there is no connection between Jayme and anyone online.

I truly dont believe this naive protected child was so savvy she could outsmart over 200 investigators including the FBI experts who are known as the best experts in the world in tracking online and telephone data communication activity.

I respect others have theories in unsolved cases but IMHOO they should have some kind of supportive evidence as a basis.

Most are inferring somehow either Jim did something to bring this about or Jayme was somehow involved.

Of course Jayme went with the murderer. She had no choice. She knew this man is dangerous and evil. She had seen firsthand just how dangerous he is. So many victims have gone with the criminal who kidnapped them thinking if they did so the kidnapper would spare their life if they complied to all commands. Sadly in most cases the ones abducted wound up murdered but some were able to talk the suspect into letting them go although it doesnt happen often.

No one came to 'save' Jayme. Not one person has said one unkind word against Jayme's parents. Quite the contrary. Family members said Jayme and Denise were inseparable and James was Jayme's knight in shining armor. No this evil came to destroy goodness and replace it with his evil wickedness. Imo

It is obvious to me all three victims were all inside of their home when this occurred. The evidence at the scene showed that to be true because they said Jim answered the door.

That would be easy to determine for the police on the scene by the position of Jim's body when found. He was found inside of his home with his feet closest to the inside doorway. The frontal shot would propel his body backwards landing on his back with his feet closer to the door. So I am puzzled why some insist he was coming home entering through the door when none of the officers have said that.

I don't know why the theories in this case have made me so depressed but it has. So much so at times I have had to walk away and not read for awhile.

Imo none of the three victims are to blame for what happened to them.

I havent seen any evidence released by the proper authorities that has supported any of the three brought this on.

Sorry for the rant but I just had to express how all of it has made me feel for these three victims. Its heartbreaking and I hope none of the families ever read what has been assumed about their dear loved ones.

I will take another much needed break again.

Take care.

Jmhoo and nothing more.

 

[JRW]

I absolutely see your point. I do want to say, though, that people dealing with a defiant, wiggly toddler are not going to punch the child senseless in order to gain his/her compliance.

As a dancer and a runner, Jayme is surely strong but nevertheless still a small girl. All it takes is one blow from a larger person to make someone stop struggling; one blow and threats of more to come.

I agree but I just dont like that people keep making her out like this frail helpless person...her strength is the only thing thats going to keep her alive/help her escape /bring her home...we dont know the circumstances of why she left with the perp or how she left with the perp.. but people need to realize its harder to pick up an unwilling person and put them in a car than people are making it out to be. 100 pounds is small but not so small that it would be impossible for her to be difficult

 

[JRW]

It was stated not too long ago that Denise spoke on the phone with one of her sisters at 10 pm and all 3 were home then and fine. MOO

was it stated that James was definately home when Denise talked to her sister? Is that in one of the interviews?

 

[Irmese]

I want to emphasize this is MY opinion only.

I know theories abound when cases remain unsolved but for me it makes me feel so uncomfortable when the theories turn to blaming the victims especially when there hasn't been one shred or hint to support so many of them.


Jmhoo and nothing more.

Thank you. I totally agree.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

I want to emphasize this is MY opinion only.

I know theories abound when cases remain unsolved but for me it makes me feel so uncomfortable when the theories turn to blaming the victims especially when there hasn't been one shred or hint to support so many of them.

Someone said the police should come out and tell the public if the family had financial difficulties. WTH? It is inferring this happened due to them having financial difficulties and brought this own themselves. Based on what I ask?

Then some seem to believe 100 pound Jayme should have fought like a raging 600 pound tiger when facing a double brutal murderer who had just shot her parents dead in cold blood? Seriousuly?

Grown adults both men and women have been kidnapped by suspects and they didnt fight or flee either unfortunately but somehow a tiny 13 year old terrorized and traumatized child should be different?

Squirming 40 pound toddlers arent under the total control of armed cold blooded murderers.

Then I see some say Jayme went willingly even though Fitzgerald has made it very clear he has found no evidence Jayme had a boyfriend of any age and there is no connection between Jayme and anyone online.

I truly dont believe this naive protected child was so savvy she could outsmart over 200 investigators including the FBI experts who are known as the best experts in the world in tracking online and telephone data communication activity.

I respect others have theories in unsolved cases but IMHOO they should have some kind of supportive evidence as a basis.

Most are inferring somehow either Jim did something to bring this about or Jayme was somehow involved.

Of course Jayme went with the murderer. She had no choice. She knew this man is dangerous and evil. She had seen firsthand just how dangerous he is. So many victims have gone with the criminal who kidnapped them thinking if they did so the kidnapper would spare their life if they complied to all commands. Sadly in most cases the ones abducted wound up murdered but some were able to talk the suspect into letting them go although it doesnt happen often.

No one came to 'save' Jayme. Not one person has said one unkind word against Jayme's parents. Quite the contrary. Family members said Jayme and Denise were inseparable and James was Jayme's knight in shining armor. No this evil came to destroy goodness and replace it with his evil wickedness. Imo

It is obvious to me all three victims were all inside of their home when this occurred. The evidence at the scene showed that to be true because they said Jim answered the door.

That would be easy to determine for the police on the scene by the position of Jim's body when found. He was found inside of his home with his feet closest to the inside doorway. The frontal shot would propel his body backwards landing on his back with his feet closer to the door. So I am puzzled why some insist he was coming home entering through the door when none of the officers have said that.

I don't know why the theories in this case have made me so depressed but it has. So much so at times I have had to walk away and not read for awhile.

Imo none of the three victims are to blame for what happened to them.

I havent seen any evidence released by the proper authorities that has supported any of the three brought this on.

Sorry for the rant but I just had to express how all of it has made me feel for these three victims. Its heartbreaking and I hope none of the families ever read what has been assumed about their dear loved ones.

I will take another much needed break again.

Take care.

Jmhoo and nothing more.

Hi^5 and nodding in total agreement!

 

[Irmese]

I agree but I just dont like that people keep making her out like this frail helpless person...her strength is the only thing thats going to keep her alive/help her escape /bring her home...we dont know the circumstances of why she left with the perp or how she left with the perp.. but people need to realize its harder to pick up an unwilling person and put them in a car than people are making it out to be. 100 pounds is small but not so small that it would be impossible for her to be difficult

So if someone broke into your house, shot and killed two family members, and told you to come with them, you'd fight them? I think you'd do whatever you thought might help you to survive the situation.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

A lot of questions are answered in the beginning of each thread, under timelines and media. Hope this helps! @JRW

 

[tiffkinsadder]

was it stated that James was definately home when Denise talked to her sister? Is that in one of the interviews?

I found a link:

Sister, aunt opens up about Closs family tragedy

 

[Quill]

Still, we're not entitled to an opinion when someone else brings it up? Actually, if I remember correctly, I am probably the one who initiated this past discussion. If you do not wish to contribute, that's fine, but perhaps there are those of us who would like to further comment. These questions have never been addressed by LE so I believe such is open for polite discussions.

We have no idea of the caretaker's days, hours, if she stopped somewhere after picking up Jayme or if she took Jayme directly to her home or to Jayme's house or if Jayme was able to use online resources at her home.

You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, as am I. I love reading opinions that differ from mine; it keeps me on my toes. If I didn't, this platform wouldn't work for me. I was just pointing out (my opinion) that many of these questions were answered and put away pretty far back in the threads. Most were satisfied with those answers, but you don't have to be. My opinion is that its a rabbit hole that has led to speculation that has no basis in fact even though others have tried explaining how the school system in that area is organized. I think several posts related to mental functioning and similar issues might have been deleted on those earlier threads because it went off the deep end. I don't want the thread to get shut down as so many tend to at this stage. I am a big advocate of the scroll & roll, but it has become monotonous for the few of us remaining who have been here since Day 1. We are understandably at the "hash and re-hash" stage of this case. Its the natural order of following cases like these. It happens every time when there is little to info coming in from LE. Keeping the thread alive is important, though, so whatever it takes, I guess.

 

[DancingMuse]

So if someone broke into your house, shot and killed two family members, and told you to come with them, you'd fight them? I think you'd do whatever you thought might help you to survive the situation.

Thx, Irmese.
Well stated.

Fight, I would not. And probably could not.

It may also be possible that Jayme "didn't appear to put up any struggle" because she was incapacitated.

a) knocked unconscious by a hit to the head (as other websleuths have mentioned)
b) chemically-induced unconsciousness (also awful to think about.)

I thought b) was only from "the movies" and not an MO used at all by current criminals until I read the link below. ( too awful. )

Ether Man's Wife Was Victim, Too