AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #28

[CuriousMaine]

View attachment 159709

hmmmm. Good find. That needs further inspection. It had to have been wet, soggy ground and/or heavy equipment to make such deep grooves.
Maybe related to that tree with the appearance of a branch cut recently(?).
It wasn't wet on Oct 14th. It was cold, about 35-40 degrees IIRC.

 

[deugirtni]

He said 5 ft... and he has evidence..u could be correct... I think what Fitzgerald is likely saying is right inside doorway..2 people suffered horrific gunshot wounds that killed them instantly. There’s blood / tissue likely close inside door spread backwards from 1 or 2 people... there’s no footprints through that could be how he arrives at 5 ft... dunno.. but think it was a mess... and perp didn’t step near it.. sadly

There's no way there were 2 bodies right inside the doorway who suffered horrific gunshot wounds that killed them instantly because it took 6 minutes for responding officers to even know there was a second body. (per the 911 call record)

 

[deugirtni]

I am not taking the “five feet” as a literal measurement, more that of a shock to LE that nothing beyond the general entryway area provided any clues or signs of an intruder...jmo

I recall the sheriff being quoted as saying there was 'no' physical evidence that someone was in the home at all, so it has to be his best guess based on where Denise' body was exactly located and how far he estimates the shooter would have to have stepped inside, in order to shoot her dead instantly, given the angle/location/severity of the wound on the body, etc. imo.

 

[CuriousMaine]

There's no way there were 2 bodies right inside the doorway who suffered horrific gunshot wounds that killed them instantly because it took 6 minutes for responding officers to even know there was a second body. (per the 911 call record)

Not necessarily. They may have finished clearing the house before advising Dispatch of the second victim. They may have found her at 1:10, or 1:09... and continued through the house looking for any more victims. Or perhaps they didn't start clearing until 1:10, etc.

1:05 - advised one male down
1:08 - "would be" clearing the house
1:11 - advised two subjects
....

I just don't think we can be certain based solely on the Dispatch Log.

Link: http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf

ETA: They also may have spent a minute or two securing/surveying the outside of the home, etc.

 

[cluciano63]

LE may have waited for back-up before going further into home to find Denise, which was likely nearby.

 

[Lillymac]

Been observing the commendable efforts of all you guys now since the beginning: Unfortunately without more information from LE we are just going round in circles. It is possible that Jayme was taken by someone in Barron? Has the Barron LE and Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald risked offending enough local people yet? Time to search every out house, shelter, and building with appropriately trained dogs. Ask permission and those who do not give permission, treat as suspects.

Glad you mentioned Barron LE and Barron's county sheriff. Do these two agencies work together? Are there jurisdictional separations. I know County is lead, but exactly what does that mean?
Are there any locals on this forum or verified experts?

 

[bizzle2]

Not necessarily. They may have finished clearing the house before advising Dispatch of the second victim. They may have found her at 1:10, or 1:09... and continued through the house looking for any more victims. Or perhaps they didn't start clearing until 1:10, etc.

1:05 - advised one male down
1:08 - "would be" clearing the house
1:11 - advised two subjects
....

I just don't think we can be certain based solely on the Dispatch Log.

Link: http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf

I agree. The dispatch log is not meant to be a complete record of everything the officers do. There were surely other things going on and other communication between them that is not noted in the log. They may have seen James' body in the doorway and then checked the perimeter of the house, or simply spent a few minutes communicating with each other about what their next steps would be. And even when they do enter the house, it's not like they would just stroll in and walk around. Knowing that there was a gunshot wound involved they would enter slowly and tactically, with guns drawn.

Maybe Denise was behind a couch, or something that made her not immediately visible. It's a small house, so she could have been behind a piece of furniture while still not being far from James.

 

[JnRyan]

Her aunts stated they think it was someone local that took her. They must have reasons to think this.

LE must be extremely frustrated over this one. If Jayme were 5-10 years older her inner circle, such as classmates, would either have some indication of who around them showed an interest or be a source of potential suspects. But she is only 13 and just turned 13, I believe. None of these classmates have a driver's license and most probably don't how to drive a vehicle that well, it at all. I believe the only potential suspects there are school staff. Or an older relative of one of her classmates. I can't believe someone who wanted Jayme wouldn't try to abduct her with less attention such as grabbing her someplace where she was alone. I wonder if she was ever at her parents' place of work and someone saw her. Who at the work place or in a retail establishment showed an interest in her? And this is all if Jayme is the target.

If it were a revenge thing against one of the parents there was probably plenty of opportunity to kill them in their car or in a parking lot somewhere.

Given the rural setting of the home I imagine someone who isn't local would drive by their home and not give it any thought. This almost has to be someone local. 'Local' could mean more than the town of Barron and the immediate area. If the Jenny O plant is the connection I wonder from how far away some employees travel to work there. 30 miles away might not be a stretch if this is a major area employer.

 

[human]

The info provided is from the AADT (Annual Average Daily Traffic) data for that location.

The Wisconsin DOT does not provide the same level as my state does so we can't get the hourly breakdown. I looked up the street that passes by my house and it had an AADT of 8180. The measurement area is 1.3 miles. You can see in the hourly breakdown that around 1am less than a car per minute passes by. I'm in the middle of a 100000+ city, so I imagine the traffic passing by the Closs household would be way less when accounting for the 25%/2000 less cars per day as well as the location.

It's possible that no one drove by while the crime was happening.

View attachment 159724

What the data discussed was about why she was not taken at her school bus stop

 

[cluciano63]

Family may be thinking local because house is in sort of a remote area...jmo

 

[IceIce9]

The photo of Jayme that has been widely circulated and used in the “Missing” posters seems to be not very recent. I have seen more recent photos of her on other sites, where she looks much different as well as older.

Why is this photo of a younger Jayme being used instigated a more recent one?

 

[Rubiconbob]

There's no way there were 2 bodies right inside the doorway who suffered horrific gunshot wounds that killed them instantly because it took 6 minutes for responding officers to even know there was a second body. (per the 911 call record)

One body was found inside doorway feet visible... your right other body could be further away...( I think it was close)
Sheriff said Denise died instantly... so either shot close by perp 5 ft in house or across room..could have been shot through bathroom door and died instantly..
if perp kills two people through doors I’d hate to see gun ...


———
According to Fitzgerald the killer was in the Closs home for only four minutes during which they stepped just five feet into the open plan house, shot James and Denise and took Jayme.

Both Denise and James died 'instantly' of their wounds, he said.

 

[Lillymac]

The photo of Jayme that has been widely circulated and used in the “Missing” posters seems to be not very recent. I have seen more recent photos of her on other sites, where she looks much different as well as older.

Why is this photo of a younger Jayme being used instigated a more recent one?

I have seen one in particular that looks nothing like the pictures being used. I agree with you.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

There's no way there were 2 bodies right inside the jdoorway who suffered horrific gunshot wounds that killed them instantly because it took 6 minutes for responding officers to even know there was a second body. (per the 911 call record)

I believe it would take them that long. Imo the lights were off and inside of the home was dark.

LE is not going to blindly barge into the home when they have seen someone right inside of the door dead on the floor from gunshot wounds.

They would slowly and cautiously enter maybe even waiting for more officers to arrive on scene before making entry.

They would have no way of knowing at that time if the armed shooter was still inside ready to shoot the officers upon entry.

By what Fitzgerald has said himself we do know both Denise and James were found in the same general area together. That is why he said he thinks the murderer kicked the phone away and it wound up landing closer to where Denise's dead body lay than closer to Jim's dead body.

Kicked cell phones arent going to go into different rooms and around walls and corners.. And he also has said he believes the killer/abductor only entered the home 5 feet in. Imo that would make him standing next to the head of Jim's dead body.

That would have to mean he had to have them both in his sightline immediately and was able to shoot both parents in seconds because both were in the same area close to each other at the time they were both murdered.

The commotion overheard on the enhanced 911 call was coming from Denise's phone but the commotion overheard of someone yelling for help was coming from another area or room from where Denise's cell phone was found per Fitzgerald. Which means the phone location was in the same area both parents were located and what was heard was happening in another area.

Imo that is how Fitzgerald knows Jayme was alive and inside of the home at the time when her parents were murdered.

They heard on the 911 call among the commotion going on at the time that was coming from another room or area of the home than where her parents lay dead and it was Jayme's (voice) pleas for help. Imo

Jmo

 

[CuriousMaine]

I'm looking for any statement from the sheriff where he says the perp only spent 4 minutes in the house and only entered 5 feet.

I've seen/heard two times (the DM article/video and the Dryden interview) he uses a compare/contrast sentence "...if I'm in your house ... 4/for minutes..." which may give a clue as to what he's thinking, but certainly is not a reliable statement of fact. Until I hear him say the perp(s) specifically, I'm taking it for what it is - a compare/contrast between evidence left "if" the sheriff is in a for 4 minutes vs 20 minutes.

Any student of Statement Analysis knows the importance of pronouns, and if the subject doesn't say it, we can't say it for them.

Perhaps I missed something?

 

[Trino]

First of all, the entire crime is surreal. Midwest... rural... two daily working individuals... family home... family values... raising a child. Suddenly, the home is violently invaded, the parents are killed, and the daughter is taken. No suspects. No motives. Bizarre.

The sheriff has stated he feels the house was targeted. What if this was a hired hit? Everything seems so cut and dry - surprise quick entry, kill the parents, take nothing, don't roam around the house, take the girl - episode takes only a few minutes. If Jayme was not the objective, a hired amoral gunman would not have thought twice about killing her, yet Jayme was not killed. Maybe a hired gun is surreal, but everything about this crime is surreal.

 

[Rubiconbob]

I don’t take the 4 minutes and 5 feet as exact. I believe it’s simply meant to say they weren’t there for long and that they didn’t go all through the house, so they left little forensic evidence.

You could be right. I think he’s saying 5 feet.. 4 team of forensics ... he said no footprints fingerprints earlier interviews.

I think 5 feet is it... if they had shoe fingerprints.. likely local POI would be zeroed in on .. I think two murders were a mess.. the made investigation teams upset .. perp didn’t risk going near them.. He coulda gone other doors ?? But I didn’t see that stated ??

 

[Lillymac]

I believe those pictures posted of the deck door were taken well after the night of the murder and it wasn't one of those patio doors that were carried out. In one of the pictures, you can see that the front door is white which is after it was replaced weeks later. Also, we haven't as much snow on the ground here as is in those pictures until about a month or so ago so I think the patio doors are still all there.

Do you live in Barron? I was wondering if there were any locals on the forum. Your info is appreciated.

About the door...I don't think those pictures belong together and I agree about the snow..but I think that door was removed by forensic guys on their second trip to the house. It was two or three days after the crime. They went back to the house and collected more items. It was discussed here because everyone wondered why they went back. Probably not significant, but it is another point of entry or exit. jmo

 

[human]

The patio door is very confusing as the article about the panty thief said he entered through an unlocked patio door.

It could be unlocked because it was removed and covered with a sheet and plywood as was the front door.

How cleaned up was the house when he came? Was the type of business that cleans houses after horror complete with their cleaning?

The family went to the house and said it left them with more questions.

Did they go after it had been cleaned? Why would it leave them with more questions?

 

[deugirtni]

But did Jayme step thru it going out? Do they have her footprints leaving that way?

Maybe they assume that if Jayme's shoeprints weren't evidenced exiting out the front door mess of a scene, she would have had to exit from the sliding door, and that could be why they took the door in for presumably forensic examination, thinking if a murderer took her, his DNA might be on it?