AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #32

[Mistermagoo]

How do they know what time he was killed?

The Medical examined cannot determine what time someone was killed exactly. It seems like they can only tell within a few hour time period, not minutes

I believe that Fitz said that he believes that James and Denise died instantly from GSW and if one of them made the 911 call then time of death could be pretty easy to figure out

 

[kkdj]

I believe that Fitz said that he believes that James and Denise died instantly from GSW and if one of them made the 911 call then time of death could be pretty easy to figure out

Bingo. LE has the phone and they would have the fingerprint of who made that call.

 

[Mistermagoo]

Then they would know the person’s height, probably?

very possible

 

[Lillymac]

I have recently asked our grandson about these particular scent dogs since the sheriff's department where he is employed as a Sgt. has had them brought in only on certain cases where other agencies were assisting such as the FBI or the GBI.

He has told me what they mainly are used for is to see if laptops..cell phones...tablets.. hidden cameras etc are hidden inside of the walls.

However he said recently LE has used them for other purposes. The example he gave me is if they go into a home and basement and find storage boxes piled up in great numbers it is much more time effective to bring in this kind of dog that can scent the box or boxes out within minutes when it would have taken them many hours or even days/weeks to painstakingly go through each and every box to make sure they dont miss anything. This is only done in certain cases where they feel it needs expediency.

I asked him about the circumstances of this particular case and he said the investigators would want to locate any communication electronics since they knew they had a 13 year old missing child hoping it would reveal if the suspect had communicated electronically with any of the three victims.

I made him aware after almost three months it still remains unsolved.

He said based on his own experience that would mean the tablet found inside of the dwelling or any other electronic communication devices that were located belonging to the victims did not yield anything of value that would be helpful in the investigation.

He also said at some scenes he has gone to they had so much stored away it took them weeks to go through it all.

He said he has come to the determination that many homeowners seem to be pack rats with some even bordering on being horders. He said some of the living areas will be neat and organized but in other areas it's like many of them never have thrown anything away the entire time they have lived there.

He has seen this whether the occupants live in mobile homes all the way up to upper class homes.

He said it can make it much more difficult and can prolong the investigation at the crime scene itself when there is so much 'stuff' the detectives must carefully go through looking for any possible clues or potential evidence.

Imo I think more and more in the future we will see police agencies everywhere who try to have these kind of dogs within their own local police departments where they will be readily accessible minute one when needed.

Imoo

For some reason people, myself included, do not want to get rid of their electronic devices...working or not.

 

[human]

The Smrekar's clock was 7 minutes fast, not 7 minutes slow. From the Daily Mail 23 October 2018:

Joan said that it was not uncommon to hear hunters out shooting in the area but the lateness and the sheer volume of these shots made her feel they were 'different'.

'They were so close, it must have been right at their door. I asked my husband, "Was that a gunshot?" He said, "Yes, and that's a big gun,"' she recalled.

'I rolled over and my clock said it was 12.38am. But I know it's off by seven minutes or so, so it was more like 12.30am.'

Also i haven't seen where it stated that is was the Sheriff who told them their clock was 7 minutes off?

I read it was 12:31 and the sheriff told them the clock was 7 mins off but where is that documented, I have no clue

 

[Mandrew]

I believe that Fitz said that he believes that James and Denise died instantly from GSW and if one of them made the 911 call then time of death could be pretty easy to figure out

The problem is that isn't always known. There have been many cases (the most famous being the locked room mystery of Isidore Fink) where law enforcement says the person would've died instantly, then it's show other people have been similarly killed and didn't die instantly. (In Fink's case most similarly shot people did die instantly, but a few did not).

 

[Lillymac]

Your thoughts mirror mine today. They have a POI.

I would hope they have a POI or several after 3 months, over 2000 tips, FBI assistance, etc. Now whether they announce or not, is a different story!!

 

[Jax49]

I read it was 12:31 and the sheriff told them the clock was 7 mins off but where is that documented, I have no clue

CNN.com - Transcripts

JOAN SMREKAR, CLOSS` NEIGHBOR: We had come home about 11:30. We went to bed about quarter after 12:00. We were not sleeping and we heard the first

shot and just a couple seconds is the second shot. And I asked my husband, I said, were those gunshots? Because they were so loud? And he said, yes,

and he said, it`s a big gun and I rolled over and looked at the time on my clock, and it said 12:38. My clock is off by seven minutes per the

Sheriff`s department, so this happened roughly around 12:30.

 

[Mistermagoo]

Good catch Magoo, I didn’t see that, lemme ask you if they do this does it give u specific height ... or 2-4 inch window ... how close do u get to actual height ??

https://www.flinnsci.com/api/library/Download/274c70fa157f4e4b82b392846fabfc14

 

[WiseOwl]

I read it was 12:31 and the sheriff told them the clock was 7 mins off but where is that documented, I have no clue

Joan Smrekar has definitely stated it was 12.38 when she looked at the clock. Many of us here on WS on previous threads have thought she may have misread the time and it was 12.58; Minus the 7 minutes would place it at 12.51 - possibly the time of the attack at the Closs home?

12.51 - Gunshots heard, possibly killing James (or Denise) instantly?

12.53 - 911 call (Denise? Jayme?)

12.54 - 911 call ended (Denise? Jayme? Perp?)

12.55 - Perp takes Jayme and leaves.

It does fit the Sheriff's 4 minute timescale of events.

 

[Julia966]

Myself, I'm doubtful of the 5 feet comment (which I haven't heard first hand). If it's based on bloody footprints, there could have been a second person who did go into the house. As has been mentioned, how would one person get them all into the room and (presumably) abduct Jayme from the doorway? Were they all up and in the front room when the perp arrived, and the perp could do everything by barely entering the home? Possible, I guess, but it seems very unlikely.

 

[ilovechili]

How do they know what time he was killed?

The Medical examined cannot determine what time someone was killed exactly. It seems like they can only tell within a few hour time period, not minutes

On that note, maybe James was shot at 12:30 and this is what the neighbors heard. Maybe it was not even the same shooter, gun nor motive. Trying to push myself to look from another perspective and from outside the box...

 

[Julia966]

Joan Smrekar has definitely stated it was 12.38 when she looked at the clock. Many of us here on WS on previous threads have thought she may have misread the time and it was 12.58; Minus the 7 minutes would place it at 12.51 - possibly the time of the attack at the Closs home?

12.51 - Gunshots heard, possibly killing James (or Denise) instantly?

12.53 - 911 call (Denise? Jayme?)

12.54 - 911 call ended (Denise? Jayme? Perp?)

12.55 - Perp takes Jayme and leaves.

It does fit the Sheriff's 4 minute timescale of events.

Yes, she said it was 12:38 when she looked at the clock, and also referred to the time as 12:30. She went on to say that the sheriff informed her the clock was off by 7 minutes. Piecing it all together, she believes the clock is fast, not slow based on what the sheriff told her.

The 4-minute timeframe is from the time units were dispatched after the 911 call to their arrival, not from the beginning of the crime.

 

[Lillymac]

I believe that Fitz said that he believes that James and Denise died instantly from GSW and if one of them made the 911 call then time of death could be pretty easy to figure out

I believe both James and Denise died from the initial shot gun blasts. The first killing them and the second making sure.
We know James was cremated and we know Denise's casket was closed. Her father was upset because they would not let him see her. This tells me her injuries we're horrific above the shoulders. Anyplace else could be covered up.
Anymore shots could have been to draw Jayme out of hiding or to make her end the 911 call. All this could be accomplished without going far in to the house.
This is a horrific crime, but to me, it is not complex. jmo

 

[Mistermagoo]

Myself, I'm doubtful of the 5 feet comment (which I haven't heard first hand). If it's based on bloody footprints, there could have been a second person who did go into the house. As has been mentioned, how would one person get them all into the room and (presumably) abduct Jayme from the doorway? Were they all up and in the front room when the perp arrived, and the perp could do everything by barely entering the home? Possible, I guess, but it seems very unlikely.

Police say kidnapped Wisconsin teen and her parents' killer was in house for FOUR minutes | Daily Mail Online
There is a video on the page that goes along with the article and he clearly states it

 

[CarGoVroomVroom]

What if by chance this perp was known to family.

Secondly, this perp previously had connection to family wifi

Oct 15th visit, if perp had phone on them, the IMEI log would appear on their wifi history log.

This is easy to find on a router.

I know they would need previous access to wifi, but do you believe the odds are the perp is not that close to the family, close enough in terms of once given the wifi password

I know, small sample size angle to think about

 

[human]

CNN.com - Transcripts

Thanks

 

[Julia966]

Police say kidnapped Wisconsin teen and her parents' killer was in house for FOUR minutes | Daily Mail Online
There is a video on the page that goes along with the article and he clearly states it

Well, OK. Maybe he'll clarify why he thinks that, especially the 4-minute comment, next week.

 

[Mistermagoo]

On that note, maybe James was shot at 12:30 and this is what the neighbors heard. Maybe it was not even the same shooter, gun nor motive. Trying to push myself to look from another perspective and from outside the box...

I don't doubt that the neighbors heard gunshots, I just don't believe that they are accurate with the time. I sure wish that LE would have done at least a well being check on all neighbors much earlier that the next morning. Maybe their time would have been more accurate

 

[daisy6441]

The Smrekar's clock was 7 minutes fast, not 7 minutes slow. From the Daily Mail 23 October 2018:

Joan said that it was not uncommon to hear hunters out shooting in the area but the lateness and the sheer volume of these shots made her feel they were 'different'.

'They were so close, it must have been right at their door. I asked my husband, "Was that a gunshot?" He said, "Yes, and that's a big gun,"' she recalled.

'I rolled over and my clock said it was 12.38am. But I know it's off by seven minutes or so, so it was more like 12.30am.'

Also i haven't seen where it stated that is was the Sheriff who told them their clock was 7 minutes off?

People here keep saying it was the sheriff but earlier it was said the FBI told her.