GUILTY WI - Kara Neumann, 11, dies as parents rely on faith healing, Weston, 23 March 2008

[southcitymom]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

.......

ETA: So glad I didn't want to jump in yet, eh folks?.......

Jump in any time, Kool. It really is an interesting discussion.

 

[southcitymom]

..... where is it considered extremism, and who gets to decide.

That really is the crux of the matter.

 

[txsvicki]

Someone suffering needlessly in this day and age for any reason is monstrous. I'll bet so many women in past years who lost children due to lack of medications such as antibiotics would feel differently. My grandmother lost 4 natural children and one adopted son who died of heart disease. All died of things that would be easily treatable today. No one would lay and suffer horrible cancer, crushed bones, or burn injuries without pain medication and most people religious or not think about money which the Bible also says not to do. No child should have to suffer because of some idiot preacher's teachings. My ex became a preacher of this sort and he and his wife used to ignore my son's horrible allergy to tomatoes then pray over him while he was having allergies. Of course, my ex got cancer and got treatment and surgery right away and his wife takes all sorts of pain and medication for her nerves.

 

[joe jones]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341869,00.html

parents talk

 

[southcitymom]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341869,00.html

parents talk

Thanks, Joe Jones. Again - with this additional information - I cannot blame the parents. I believe that they did not know she was near death. I believe that they thought their prayers were working and she was getting better. I do not believe they were negligent.

 

[scarpetta]

SCM, I don't think that I have told you that I really enjoy your easy way of sharing your views in your posts. I really do enjoy reading your thoughts.

KOOL LOOK, thank you for your post. If you feel that the holy spirit speaks to people then any minute now you might be hearing a voice telling you that they are in no way responsible for the thoughts that go on in Scarpetta's head. LOL. I am actually not a very spiritual person, but I am very familiar with religion and religious extremism. I think you are right about the key being to know God's very nature, and I also think that the way to go about that is still under investigation in my mind. It has been a process of elimination so far, and in this particular case my opinion is that God was in no way involved in the decision making process of these parents.

 

[southcitymom]

SCM, I don't think that I have told you that I really enjoy your easy way of sharing your views in your posts. I really do enjoy reading your thoughts.....

I always love hearing what you have to say too, scarpetta.:blowkiss:

If we can accept the parents's statements that they did not know their child was near death (and I can ,though I understand some may not), it steers the conversation into a different direction on some level. As parents, should we always avail our children of routine and preventative Western healthcare? (IE - had they know she was diabetic, perhaps they would have considered treatments for that - the father did start CPR the minute he felt he was losing her). And then - what about those who cannot afford routine and preventative Western healthcare for their children? What about those who just don't believe in a lot of it (like the differing views on vaccines)? This just raises lots of questions in my mind about the nature of those things.

If I accept the parents's statements, this seems less about religious extremism and more about a terrible confluence of events. My continued prayers for this family.

 

[southcitymom]

So how do people feel about the radical Muslims that raise their children to become suicide bombers who go out and kill our soldiers fighting for their freedoms? Are they simply exempt because they are praying (I bet much more than any of us pray) and practicing their religious convictions?

Where do we draw the line on the power of prayer and religion when it comes to harming others or death?

I came back to answer this because I said I would. In the instance of extremist Muslims who teach this - they aren't let off the hook because there are human laws about murder. I'm okay with that. There are no human laws stating Western medical care must be sought at every turn.

Now that we have a bit more info about this case, it sounds like the parents did not know how dire their daughter's situation was.

 

[sherri79]

I've seen this too, sherri. If you believe this and I believe this, then why is it wrong for them to believe this - that prayer can heal things. Are doctors the first resort and God the last? For many this is the order, but it is not wrong, IMHO, to believe and act like God is first and doctors aren't an option.

i think every person has a right to their beliefs. when your beliefs cause physical harm to other you cross a line. too many times children are not treated as people with the rights. you can only force your religon on your child to a point. once you endanger their life it is too far.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

The article raises more questions than eases my mind. Several statements stand out to me which make me believe even more that they deserve to be charged with neglect, at the very least. However, I am just glad the DA is going to review the case for possible charges. I pray he comes to the same conclusion I have about this situation.

Vergin said he expect the investigation to wrap up by Friday and the findings to be forwarded to the district attorney to review for possible charges.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341869,00.html

 

[southcitymom]

The article raises more questions than eases my mind. Several statements stand out to me which make me believe even more that they deserve to be charged with neglect, at the very least. However, I am just glad the DA is going to review the case for possible charges. I pray he comes to the same conclusion I have about this situation.

Vergin said he expect the investigation to wrap up by Friday and the findings to be forwarded to the district attorney to review for possible charges.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341869,00.html

I too will be very interested in what the DA concludes.

 

[southcitymom]

i think every person has a right to their beliefs. when your beliefs cause physical harm to other you cross a line. too many times children are not treated as people with the rights. you can only force your religon on your child to a point. once you endanger their life it is too far.

Do you endanger a child's life when you fail to vaccinate them from measles? mumps? chicken pox? flu? Again - individual belief and perception is everything.

 

[Linda7NJ]

You are right about religious extremism. The problem is where is it considered extremism, and who gets to decide.

Apparently the government. We don't have human sacrifice anymore.

Besides isn't praying a complete contradiction anyho? If God knows your entire life's plan the second you're born........who do these people that pray think they are? They are gonna change God's mind with selfish requests?

 

[Linda7NJ]

So if the woman that was stuck to a toilet seat for 2 years was simply prayed over by her boyfriend, he wouldn't be charged?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

This is on NG right now. Interesting.

 

[sherri79]

Do you endanger a child's life when you fail to vaccinate them from measles? mumps? chicken pox? flu? Again - individual belief and perception is everything.

it is a matter degree. we have a dead child. at that point i think it is up to a judge or jury to decide if this crossed the line.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

As the mother of a Type I diabetic daughter, this just tears at my heart. I cannot imagine. Cannot.

I cannot bear to think about how the girl probably suffered. I realize all diabetics are different, but MOST would be pretty sick after 1-2 days of no insulin. Heck, with my daughter, if her blood sugars were too high (for varied reasons) for several hours or 1/2 a day, she was already feeling like cr*#. Headache, lethargic...just out of it, like the flu.

We learned from about day #2 of her hospitalization for her original diagnosis, about KA, what this poor girl died from. They told me that at the time of her diagnosis, she was probably 2 days away from a diabetic coma. They get sick, vomiting, etc. I'm wondering how many days of this she had - they said something about her being ill for about 30 days. Poor, poor girl.

 

[southcitymom]

Apparently the government. We don't have human sacrifice anymore.

Besides isn't praying a complete contradiction anyho? If God knows your entire life's plan the second you're born........who do these people that pray think they are? They are gonna change God's mind with selfish requests?

The only real prayer (besides prayers of gratitude) is "Thy will be done!" or so I've been told. But I don't believe God knows our entire life plan when we're born either - if She did, free will wouldn't be so free!

 

[southcitymom]

it is a matter degree. we have a dead child. at that point i think it is up to a judge or jury to decide if this crossed the line.

Exactly - the line is hard to find!

 

[Annie]

You can listen to the tape when the aunt in California tried to get help, but it was too late.

http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080326/WDH0101/80326147/1981