Found Deceased WI - Kathleen Ryan, adult, teacher, car found burned with body inside, St. Francis, 2 Feb 2019

[Schmitz5100]

I know the neighbor saw her leave the house at 12 to 12:30. Perhaps she picked up her snacks locally and returned home and left later for the trip and the neighbor did not see her. Was there any other corroboration of the fact she left at 12to 12:30?

This is a really great point. Did the family know she was coming early or did they think she was just coming to the game? Just because she left her house at 12 or 12:30 doesn’t mean she left it to go to the game. Maybe she did leave and came back prior to leaving for the game.

 

[kay74]

I know the neighbor saw her leave the house at 12 to 12:30. Perhaps she picked up her snacks locally and returned home and left later for the trip and the neighbor did not see her. Was there any other corroboration of the fact she left at 12to 12:30?

I think she stopped for snacks along the way. LE should put a circle around the entire area and check cameras of every possible store on that date. By stores I mean the most obvious, Walmart, Target, Dollar Tree and yes grocery stores. It's not impossible to do especially since they have the exact date.

 

[Rosiebones]

She was last seen between 12 and 12:30 and it was assumed she was leaving for the game. Her son said she was going directly to the game which was at 4:30. The trip takes one and half hours. So, she knew she had an hour and a half extra built into this trip. Stopping to buy snacks for the team doesn't take an hour and a half.
She either went back home and left again later or had made plans to go somewhere else during that extra time.
Either of those circumstances allowed someone else to be the driver and for her to be the passenger to the place where the car was found.
Was she alive for the trip?

 

[kay74]

She was last seen between 12 and 12:30 and it was assumed she was leaving for the game. Her son said she was going directly to the game which was at 4:30. The trip takes one and half hours. So, she knew she had an hour and a half extra built into this trip. Stopping to buy snacks for the team doesn't take an hour and a half.
She either went back home and left again later or had made plans to go somewhere else during that extra time.
Either of those circumstances allowed someone else to be the driver and for her to be the passenger to the place where the car was found.
Was she alive for the trip?

It's obvious she went shopping on her way there. Probably something she planned. In my opinion something happened in a parking lot at a store.

 

[Rosiebones]

It is obvious she was somewhere but we will never know if it was shopping or not because everything in the car was destroyed. The only fact we know is that she was last seen between 12 and 12:30.
It has been reported that she commonly brought snacks for the team. But, they could already have been purchased, I can't find that she was going to do it on the way that day. Even if she was going to buy snacks on the way, she built and hour and a half extra into the trip and buying snacks doesn't take that long.

 

[Razz]

Taking pills and lighting candles seems like a stretch to me.....or, it's not something I would have ever thought about. If something to that effect happened, I would think she would have researched it.
1). Would a lit candle or cigarette eventually burn up the car?
2) Would I need an accelerant to get the job done?
3). What kind of pills did she have a history of using that would put her under for hours before the car burned?
4). If it was suicide, was she cagey enough to sit on the passenger side to make it appear it was murder?

If she was taken, why have her credit cards not been used? What a lot of "work" to go through to get nothing.

Lots of unknowns.

 

[Rosiebones]

Taking pills and lighting candles seems like a stretch to me.....or, it's not something I would have ever thought about. If something to that effect happened, I would think she would have researched it.
1). Would a lit candle or cigarette eventually burn up the car?
2) Would I need an accelerant to get the job done?
3). What kind of pills did she have a history of using that would put her under for hours before the car burned?
4). If it was suicide, was she cagey enough to sit on the passenger side to make it appear it was murder?

If she was taken, why have her credit cards not been used? What a lot of "work" to go through to get nothing.

Lots of unknowns.

I agree and feel strongly that this was not a suicide for many reasons, but then I wonder if LE ever checked the computer she used at school for research or communications.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I pray each day the police can discover what happened to this dearly loved woman.

I think she did give herself plenty of time to stop/shop, and buy snacks or maybe even buy gifts.

I do the same thing on the way to visit our youngest daughter, son in law,and two of our grandsons who live about 175 miles from us.

I do believe someone forced her back into her vehicle, and a point in time she was outside of her vehicle, maybe while she was returning to her vehicle.

I believe she was murdered.

For her vehicle to suffer such fire damage someone put an accelerant on it. Most likely gasoline.

The police would be able to discern hot spots in the charred metal because where the accelerant is splashed or doused is the hottest areas of the fire.

Several murder cases have involved the suspect burning the vehicle to destroy evidence. Sometimes they also burn the victim by placing them or leaving them inside the vehicle to also be consumed by the fire. I think this is what happened here. I hope when placed or forced to be in the passenger side, she was totally unconscious at the time.

I pray one day her husband, and children get the answers they deserve. As they have said. Iirc, it wont bring this lovely wife, and mom back which is sadly true for all victims who have lost their lives.

BUT, imo, it will give them some kind of resolution.

I cant begin to comprehend the pain, and suffering its caused all of them. The not knowing what happened, and who did this has to be almost as hard as losing this amazing woman.

Imo

 

[OhThatVictoria]

I know the neighbor saw her leave the house at 12 to 12:30. Perhaps she picked up her snacks locally and returned home and left later for the trip and the neighbor did not see her. Was there any other corroboration of the fact she left at 12to 12:30?

Good point, Rosiebones. There is no other info (published).

 

[nyonge]

The biggest clue we've been given so far hides in plain sight:
"There is nothing that has brought us to any conclusion that somebody did this to Kathleen," said Lake County Sheriff's Office spokesperson Sgt. Christopher Covelli. "We don't have any evidence somebody caused this to happen to Kathleen."
Let's parse this.
First sentence states almost directly, Kathleen Ryankilled herself. The door's left open a crack, just in case nefarious gang-bangers or paid hit men or crazed acquaintances or vengeful family members or Lone Nut Jobs enter the picture. But LE does not make this statement unless it's very sure and by using the word "us," suggests that great team effort has been put in. Also, to make this statement, LE must have information they are withholding from the public, things which might cause someone to suicide, like a bad relationship, on-job stress, return of a disease. You can bet they've talked to her husband, her bosses, her doctors. And they found out something.
Second sentence - "we" goes with first sentence's "us" and both suggest consensus -- LE has put in due diligence plus overtime. There's just not any evidence on the other side of the ledger - no one killed her but herself. The only "somebody who caused this to happen" is the dead woman herself.
Again, I was bowled over by spokesperson Sgt. Covelli's statement. It almost can't get more clear. You just don't say this in an official capacity unless you're pretty damned sure it won't come back to haunt you.

 

[Schmitz5100]

The biggest clue we've been given so far hides in plain sight:

"There is nothing that has brought us to any conclusion that somebody did this to Kathleen," said Lake County Sheriff's Office spokesperson Sgt. Christopher Covelli. "We don't have any evidence somebody caused this to happen to Kathleen."​

Let's parse this.
First sentence states almost directly, Kathleen Ryankilled herself. The door's left open a crack, just in case nefarious gang-bangers or paid hit men or crazed acquaintances or vengeful family members or Lone Nut Jobs enter the picture. But LE does not make this statement unless it's very sure and by using the word "us," suggests that great team effort has been put in. Also, to make this statement, LE must have information they are withholding from the public, things which might cause someone to suicide: bad relationship, on-job stress, return of a disease. You can bet they've talked to her husband, her bosses, her doctors. And they found out something.
Second sentence - "we" goes with first sentence's "us" -- LE has put in due diligence plus overtime. There's just not any evidence on the other side of the ledger: no one killed her but herself. The only "somebody who caused this to happen" is the dead woman herself.
Again, I was bowled over by spokesperson Sgt. Covelli's statement. It almost can't get more clear. You just don't say this in an official capacity unless you're pretty damned sure it won't come back to haunt you.

The children don’t sound quite as convinced. Seems like they stayed quiet because they were asked to but are looking for answers.

 

[OhThatVictoria]

The biggest clue we've been given so far hides in plain sight:
"There is nothing that has brought us to any conclusion that somebody did this to Kathleen," said Lake County Sheriff's Office spokesperson Sgt. Christopher Covelli. "We don't have any evidence somebody caused this to happen to Kathleen."
Let's parse this.
First sentence states almost directly, Kathleen Ryankilled herself. The door's left open a crack, just in case nefarious gang-bangers or paid hit men or crazed acquaintances or vengeful family members or Lone Nut Jobs enter the picture. But LE does not make this statement unless it's very sure and by using the word "us," suggests that great team effort has been put in. Also, to make this statement, LE must have information they are withholding from the public, things which might cause someone to suicide, like a bad relationship, on-job stress, return of a disease. You can bet they've talked to her husband, her bosses, her doctors. And they found out something.
Second sentence - "we" goes with first sentence's "us" -- LE has put in due diligence plus overtime. There's just not any evidence on the other side of the ledger: no one killed her but herself. The only "somebody who caused this to happen" is the dead woman herself.
Again, I was bowled over by spokesperson Sgt. Covelli's statement. It almost can't get more clear. You just don't say this in an official capacity unless you're pretty damned sure it won't come back to haunt you.

If this were true, why did Kathleen’s sons go to the media in search of information from the public, a motive? Wouldn’t they know?

 

[OhThatVictoria]

The children don’t sound quite as convinced. Seems like they stayed quiet because they were asked to but are looking for answers.

Jinx. Buy me a coke.

 

[nyonge]

The children would find the solution of suicide the hardest to accept, for several reasons. As for suicide by fire, we all find that method very hard to understand.

 

[Rosiebones]

The biggest clue we've been given so far hides in plain sight:
"There is nothing that has brought us to any conclusion that somebody did this to Kathleen," said Lake County Sheriff's Office spokesperson Sgt. Christopher Covelli. "We don't have any evidence somebody caused this to happen to Kathleen."
Let's parse this.
First sentence states almost directly, Kathleen Ryankilled herself. The door's left open a crack, just in case nefarious gang-bangers or paid hit men or crazed acquaintances or vengeful family members or Lone Nut Jobs enter the picture. But LE does not make this statement unless it's very sure and by using the word "us," suggests that great team effort has been put in. Also, to make this statement, LE must have information they are withholding from the public, things which might cause someone to suicide, like a bad relationship, on-job stress, return of a disease. You can bet they've talked to her husband, her bosses, her doctors. And they found out something.
Second sentence - "we" goes with first sentence's "us" and both suggest consensus -- LE has put in due diligence plus overtime. There's just not any evidence on the other side of the ledger - no one killed her but herself. The only "somebody who caused this to happen" is the dead woman herself.
Again, I was bowled over by spokesperson Sgt. Covelli's statement. It almost can't get more clear. You just don't say this in an official capacity unless you're pretty damned sure it won't come back to haunt you.

All this says to me is that they do not have the evidence that someone killed her but they also don't have the evidence (at least that they are sharing) that she committed suicide.

 

[meanmaryjean]

I think understanding the nature of the fire is the key to this case. Figure that out- and you figure out the rest.

 

[nyonge]

All this says to me is that they do not have the evidence that someone killed her but they also don't have the evidence (at least that they are sharing) that she committed suicide.

If they find no evidence that someone else killed her, that becomes evidence that she killed herself, which is what the spokesperson's statement implied. Clear all other likely possibilities and whatever remains, no matter how improbable, is the truth.

 

[NervousNellie]

"There is nothing that has brought us to any conclusion that somebody did this to Kathleen," said Lake County Sheriff's Office spokesperson Sgt. Christopher Covelli. "We don't have any evidence somebody caused this to happen to Kathleen."

Because they don't have evidence, doesn't mean it doesn't exist; it could merely mean they haven't found it (yet). IMO.

 

[OhThatVictoria]

If they find no evidence that someone else killed her, that becomes evidence that she killed herself, which is what the spokesperson's statement implied. Clear all other likely possibilities and whatever remains, no matter how improbable, is the truth.

Is this the evidence of absence debate?
Edit: To add . . . (From Wiki)

• 5]

Absence of evidenceEdit
These examples contain or represent missing information.

• Statements that begin with "I can't prove it but ..." are often referring to some kind of absence of evidence.
• "There is no evidence of foul play here" is a direct reference to the absence of evidence.
• "There is no evidence of aliens, and therefore, aliens do not exist" appeals to an absence of evidence.
• "A recent study said there is no strong evidence that shows flossing reduces cavities or gum disease." The NIH dental health expert indicated that large-scale, long-term clinical trials are expensive and challenging to perform, and that patients would still likely benefit from flossing [6][7].

Negative resultsEdit
These examples have the potential for "false negative" results.

• When the doctor says that the test results were negative (a month later the test is positive).
• Under "Termites" the inspector checked the box that read "no" (a week later termites are discovered).
• A patient uses an antibiotic for only one day and stops because they feel it isn't working. (Had they used it for 7 days the drug would have worked).

Evidence of absenceEdit
These examples contain definite evidence that can be used to show, indicate, suggest, infer or deduce the non-existence or non-presence of something.

• One very carefully inspects the back seat of one's car and finds no adult-sized kangaroos.
• The police did not find a gun in the suspect's clothing.
• The elderly patient did not have any teeth in his mouth.

 

[Rosiebones]

Another fact to ponder is that with all the directions that car could go if she was car jacked close to her home, it drove toward the basketball game. It was only 12 miles away from her destination. It was not her regular route according to her sons but it is not coincidental that the car was headed toward where she was intending to go.