WI - Murder-Suicide at UW-Platteville Drom Room - Kelsie Martin, 22, of Beloit, & Hallie Helms, 22, of Baraboo - 19 May 2025

[beubeubeu]

In one of the articles above says that Kelsie was assistant resident director of the dorm, meaning that she “responded to various emergencies around the hall, including mental health concerns, hate and bias reports, violations of campus policy and more”.

This sounds CRAZY and not reasonable at all.
According to google "Wilgus Hall accommodates approximately 230 residents."
Even if there were other assistance residence director its crazy. 22yo with her own degree to take care of and some personal life expected to all the normal stuff like managing keys, coordinating some activities and providng students with information.
No single person should ever be expected to respond to mental health concerns. Same with hate and bias reports. Let's say someone DID commited a hateful act towards the other student. Another student is expected to have one on one confrontation about this? To investigate violations of campus policy as well? While studying, so with very limited ability to know anything about most residents of the dorm?
What resident directors are expected to do then?

 

[Sundog]

This sounds CRAZY and not reasonable at all.
According to google "Wilgus Hall accommodates approximately 230 residents."
Even if there were other assistance residence director its crazy. 22yo with her own degree to take care of and some personal life expected to all the normal stuff like managing keys, coordinating some activities and providng students with information.
No single person should ever be expected to respond to mental health concerns. Same with hate and bias reports. Let's say someone DID commited a hateful act towards the other student. Another student is expected to have one on one confrontation about this? To investigate violations of campus policy as well? While studying, so with very limited ability to know anything about most residents of the dorm?
What resident directors are expected to do then?

I don't know where that job description was posted, but I don't think it's accurate. Usually residence assistants are responsible for creating a sense of community on their floor and assuring that the environment is condusive to learning. The resident director is responsible for the entire building and the many resident assistants (one for each floor, usually), report to the resident director. The resident director isn't a student, but often a university graduate with at least a Master's degree in student services or a doctoral student at the university. For the residence hall assistants, they receive a stipend and room and board and have time off to study, and are students with a high grade point average.

In any event, I don't think the position description that was posted somewhere in one of the articles is accurate for resident assistants at University of Wisconsin.

 

[Sundog]

On UW-Platteville's webpage, it says that the date and time for students to move out of their residence halls in the spring 2025 semester is Friday, May 17 at 6 p.m. and that students should book a check-out meeting with their RA in advance to check the room condition, etc. The murder took place that day in the afternoon, according to MSM reports.

 

[Smkd]

I don't know where that job description was posted, but I don't think it's accurate. Usually residence assistants are responsible for creating a sense of community on their floor and assuring that the environment is condusive to learning. The resident director is responsible for the entire building and the many resident assistants (one for each floor, usually), report to the resident director. The resident director isn't a student, but often a university graduate with at least a Master's degree in student services or a doctoral student at the university. For the residence hall assistants, they receive a stipend and room and board and have time off to study, and are students with a high grade point average.

In any event, I don't think the position description that was posted somewhere in one of the articles is accurate for resident assistants at University of Wisconsin.

According to the article it’s a quote from her linked in profile, but I haven’t been able to verify

 

[Smkd]

I don't know where that job description was posted, but I don't think it's accurate. Usually residence assistants are responsible for creating a sense of community on their floor and assuring that the environment is condusive to learning. The resident director is responsible for the entire building and the many resident assistants (one for each floor, usually), report to the resident director. The resident director isn't a student, but often a university graduate with at least a Master's degree in student services or a doctoral student at the university. For the residence hall assistants, they receive a stipend and room and board and have time off to study, and are students with a high grade point average.

In any event, I don't think the position description that was posted somewhere in one of the articles is accurate for resident assistants at University of Wisconsin.

Never mind, I found her linked in profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelsie-martin-aa3106237

 

[Sundog]

According to the article it’s a quote from her linked in profile, but I haven’t been able to verify

Thanks for this information. I had wondered if it was her own description and not the formal position description from the University.

 

[Sundog]

Never mind, I found her linked in profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelsie-martin-aa3106237

So Kelsie wasn't a resident hall assistant, she was an assistant resident hall director and had 8-12 resident hall assistants report to her.

In any event, she would not be able to do mental health counselling, but would be trained as part of her job description to refer a student to the appropriate campus resource if a student needed mental health counseling.

 

[appleatcha]

This sounds CRAZY and not reasonable at all.
According to google "Wilgus Hall accommodates approximately 230 residents."
Even if there were other assistance residence director its crazy. 22yo with her own degree to take care of and some personal life expected to all the normal stuff like managing keys, coordinating some activities and providng students with information.
No single person should ever be expected to respond to mental health concerns. Same with hate and bias reports. Let's say someone DID commited a hateful act towards the other student. Another student is expected to have one on one confrontation about this? To investigate violations of campus policy as well? While studying, so with very limited ability to know anything about most residents of the dorm?
What resident directors are expected to do then?

My opinion only: Based on my experience with American universities, I don't take what she wrote in her LinkedIn profile to mean that she was the only person responding, nor do I assume she was responsible for investigating anything or deciding the outcome in these situations. I imagine she was one of a team of people who responded in the moment, and there are probably other university employees (full-time employees, not student employees) who would follow up. It would be very unusual for an undergraduate student in an assistant resident hall director position to be solely responsible for the things you've listed.

 

[Smkd]

So Kelsie wasn't a resident hall assistant, she was an assistant resident hall director and had 8-12 resident hall assistants report to her.

In any event, she would not be able to do mental health counselling, but would be trained as part of her job description to refer a student to the appropriate campus resource if a student needed mental health counseling.

Yup, I think that’s what I said in my original post, she was not a residential hall assistant.

No, she wouldn’t be able to do mental health counselling, even with her degree in psychology she wouldn’t be qualified to do so (at least not where I’m from, I also have a psychology degree). That’s not what I meant to imply, just to be clear.

What I was thinking is more along the lines of, she might’ve been expected to respond to disturbances as well as being a first point of contact for students - then she’d refer them to whichever service may be appropriate. This is all hypothetical, but if there was a disturbance or someone reported a concern about Hallie, according to the job description she would’ve been the person to go knock on her door to check on her.

Obviously we don’t know what happened so this is a hypothetical within a hypothetical. If whatever happened was due to a failure by the school to carry out proper risk assessments or poor implementing of safeguarding policies, the school could be liable. It could even be as simple as poor training of their resident staff.

 

[borndem]

All good points being raised. Once the investigation is complete, do you think LE will offer details? Or will they state very little to the public - only speaking with the families?

I don't expect LE putting much info out there, IMHO. There is no one to prosecute.
Apparently, no note was written or found -- or if one was found it has not been mentioned that I have seen.
Don't know if any people in the dorm heard any discussion or argument, etc., before the shooting.

I can't imagine that anyone from either family would publish any info, other than the obits... JMO.

It could be possible for there to be a Wrongful Death suit (assuming WD suits can be brought by residents in WI).

 

[Sundog]

I don't expect LE putting much info out there, IMHO. There is no one to prosecute.
Apparently, no note was written or found -- or if one was found it has not been mentioned that I have seen.
Don't know if any people in the dorm heard any discussion or argument, etc., before the shooting.
I can't imagine that anyone from either family would publish any info, other than the obits... JMO.

I think there could very well be a civil lawsuit filed by the family of the victim. JMO.

 

[borndem]

In one of the articles above says that Kelsie was assistant resident director of the dorm, meaning that she “responded to various emergencies around the hall, including mental health concerns, hate and bias reports, violations of campus policy and more”.

I wonder if that’s what happened, she was called to respond to a mental health emergency and things went south. If that was the case, I imagine there’ll be some litigation, but this is purely speculation.

bbm
Hmmm. Didn't think of that possibility.

 

[borndem]

I don't know where that job description was posted, but I don't think it's accurate. Usually residence assistants are responsible for creating a sense of community on their floor and assuring that the environment is condusive to learning. The resident director is responsible for the entire building and the many resident assistants (one for each floor, usually), report to the resident director. The resident director isn't a student, but often a university graduate with at least a Master's degree in student services or a doctoral student at the university. For the residence hall assistants, they receive a stipend and room and board and have time off to study, and are students with a high grade point average.

In any event, I don't think the position description that was posted somewhere in one of the articles is accurate for resident assistants at University of Wisconsin.

I graduated from college several years ago, but the situation re resident assistants, etc., back then appears to be very like it is now. One assistant per floor and a resident director for the dorm.
Of course, every college/university certainly has its own way of residents and directors.

 

[Smkd]

I think there could very well be a civil lawsuit filed by the family of the victim. JMO.

Yup, agree. Consider everything you mentioned in your previous posts and everything I mentioned. From crisis response to communication, adequate training, policies, thorough record keeping, safeguarding and risk assessment… there’s about a million pitfalls.

We don’t know what happened but I’m sure if the family has hired a lawyer they’ll be closely looking at all of that. And it seems like the school and police have been very quiet since the incident, so I’m sure they’re doing their due diligence too.

 

[Sundog]

On UW-Platteville's webpage, it says that the date and time for students to move out of their residence halls in the spring 2025 semester is Friday, May 17 at 6 p.m. and that students should book a check-out meeting with their RA in advance to check the room condition, etc. The murder took place that day in the afternoon, according to MSM reports.

TIMELINE CORRECTION:

Replying to my own post as it too late to edit it. The move-out of residence halls deadline was Monday, May 19th at 6 pm. Graduation ceremony was on Saturday, May 17. Shooting took place on move-out date, on Monday afternoon, May 19th.

 

[beubeubeu]

In any event, she would not be able to do mental health counselling, but would be trained as part of her job description to refer a student to the appropriate campus resource if a student needed mental health cocounseling.

Mental Heath counseling kinda implicates that the other person wants to be counselled so its in a way safer than responding to mental health emergency which may mean literally anything. Not sure if correct but ive read that they weren't living on the same floor and that they didnt knew each other and that sounds incredibly risky to me. Its one thing to have up to 30 people under your care and technical guidance, its very humanly possible to be in touch with them and more or less know whats going on or what may be happening. With whole floor or even a building no way to know even a bit about everone, thats just too many people.

My opinion only: Based on my experience with American universities, I don't take what she wrote in her LinkedIn profile to mean that she was the only person responding, nor do I assume she was responsible for investigating anything or deciding the outcome in these situations. I imagine she was one of a team of people who responded in the moment, and there are probably other university employees (full-time employees, not student employees) who would follow up. It would be very unusual for an undergraduate student in an assistant resident hall director position to be solely responsible for the things you've listed.

Not being the only person responding means that in case of emergency they will be expected to form a team of at least two people to check out whats going on - or that there were others who would respond, mostly alone to check out whats going on and then advise how to solve the issuse, recommend possible solution or notify the others, possibly more qualified to take it from there.

So lets say someone notifies that hateful act may happen or that someone may have medical or mental emergency - the expected drill for someone in Kelsie's position would be to go there to check whats going on alone or with the other person? Would that other person be available or not?

Mental health concerns, hate and bias reports, violations of University rules - all these things doesnt sound like a good idea to expect from 21ish student (who may know nothing about the person these concerns/reports are about) to go alone and check if thats most likely nothing very serious OR if its indeed very serious and requires more professional intervention.

 

[beubeubeu]

Could this be that she was expected to check if the room is already vacant, so went there, knocked, didnt get any response and entered to make sure nobodys there anymore?

 

[Sundog]

Mental Heath counseling kinda implicates that the other person wants to be counselled so its in a way safer than responding to mental health emergency which may mean literally anything. Not sure if correct but ive read that they weren't living on the same floor and that they didnt knew each other and that sounds incredibly risky to me. Its one thing to have up to 30 people under your care and technical guidance, its very humanly possible to be in touch with them and more or less know whats going on or what may be happening. With whole floor or even a building no way to know even a bit about everone, thats just too many people.

Not being the only person responding means that in case of emergency they will be expected to form a team of at least two people to check out whats going on - or that there were others who would respond, mostly alone to check out whats going on and then advise how to solve the issuse, recommend possible solution or notify the others, possibly more qualified to take it from there.

So lets say someone notifies that hateful act may happen or that someone may have medical or mental emergency - the expected drill for someone in Kelsie's position would be to go there to check whats going on alone or with the other person? Would that other person be available or not?

Mental health concerns, hate and bias reports, violations of University rules - all these things doesnt sound like a good idea to expect from 21ish student (who may know nothing about the person these concerns/reports are about) to go alone and check if thats most likely nothing very serious OR if its indeed very serious and requires more professional intervention.

In an emergency situation, the protocol would be to call campus police and they would be there in just a few minutes. They would handle a crisis situation. But I'm guessing that Kelsie didn't know the extent of the situation.

In any event, you make excellent points and I am sure that there will be lots of changes in protocols at UW Plattsville, throughout the UW system, and on campuses all across the country who are watching this closely.

 

[Live_and_Learn]

Relatives of both women are talking about it on social media, as are dorm residents who knew both women and know what happened. Details in MSM are likely going to be scarce until someone has the courage to discuss some real issues around neurodiversity, drugs, and how mental health should be addressed in higher education.

 

[angelainwi]

Relatives of both women are talking about it on social media, as are dorm residents who knew both women and know what happened. Details in MSM are likely going to be scarce until someone has the courage to discuss some real issues around neurodiversity, drugs, and how mental health should be addressed in higher education.

I am trying to invite you to a private group where we are discussing this case but your settings won't allow me to invite you