WI WI - Robert Christian, 18, Madison, 16 Sept 1977

[Jenp7707]

I have tried to find out, I don’t have the private property app some do to check it. It seems if the site was abandoned by sheriffs (which someone said above) it would revert to the landowner. Who that is, I can’t tell. Someone with a property hunting app could.

I actually looked at your map and realized your X is on a current tower location. However, that is not where the state tower was in 1977. The original tower where his vehicle was found was torn down in the early 2000s.

 

[Keiri]

I actually looked at your map and realized your X is on a current tower location. However, that is not where the state tower was in 1977. The original tower where his vehicle was found was torn down in the early 2000s.

Do you have an address? I had looked at older maps because I didn’t see it. Albrecht road I couldn’t find on 1970s maps or current maps, and I thought it was simply renamed.

 

[ShadowGrove]

Fixing the mod snips by posting links: Article clipped from The Capital Times
This article almost screws up everything. It doesn't say who saw him at 8 30 pm, it says Robert was supposed to meet Randy at 5 pm, but robert didn't even leave home until 5:30. I'm pretty sure these are mistakes.

Article clipped from The Capital Times

Clipping found in The Capital Times published in Madison, Wisconsin on 9/20/1977.

www.newspapers.com

This one says the license plate was gone too. Then why not just take the car if the keys were in the ignition? They perhaps wanted the car to be found and so didn't rob it fully, just enough to make it look like a robbery?
Again saying he was supposed to meet his friend by 5.

christian

Clipping found in Daily Citizen published in Beaver Dam, Wisconsin on 9/21/1977. christian

www.newspapers.com

this article says he was supposed to meet his "friend" by 7.

bow and arrow

Clipping found in The Capital Times published in Madison, Wisconsin on 9/23/1977. bow and arrow

www.newspapers.com

OMG - they FOUND Christian's Bow and arrow on a road in the woods. Do they still have this evidence? Can they test it with today's tests? How did we not hear any of this? This indicates that SOMEONE went into the woods. Did he go into the woods to check his stand, which he said he would do? This indicates we should shift to wherever his stand was, who knows where that was?

(linking more in next one)

If this is the only article that seems to say the bow was found, I think this newspaper article just had some bad grammar and the bow was intended to be included in a list of stolen items, not with the found car.

A better phrasing would have been:
“Christian’s abandoned car, which had been stripped of its four wheels, battery, front license plate, and the man’s bow and arrow, was found on a road in the woods last weekend.”

 

[Keiri]

If this is the only article that seems to say the bow was found, I think this newspaper article just had some bad grammar and the bow was intended to be included in a list of stolen items, not with the found car.

A better phrasing would have been:
“Christian’s abandoned car, which had been stripped of its four wheels, battery, front license plate, and the man’s bow and arrow, was found on a road in the woods last weekend.”

You are correct - When I spoke to law enforcement they said they didn’t find the bow or any hunting equipment.

 

[Sweetluv]

It's interesting to me that the woman who reported a male in a car..resembling Robert and his AMC Hornet..stated that the male said he was meeting a friend. That's exactly what Robert was doing, meeting Randy. Could Robert have been set up?
Do we know anything about Randy's character or people he associated with ?

 

[Keiri]

It's interesting to me that the woman who reported a male in a car..resembling Robert and his AMC Hornet..stated that the male said he was meeting a friend. That's exactly what Robert was doing, meeting Randy. Could Robert have been set up?
Do we know anything about Randy's character or people he associated with ?

He was, according to the family, meeting Randy at his house in Baraboo, not Durward's Glen. Randy was apparently interviewed, cooperated and cleared. As for his friends... I hadn't read anything about that either way. He could have been meeting with a friend in an unscheduled manner, but if he was, he didn't tell anyone about it.

 

[Keiri]

They updated his NaMus yesterday The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
I believe the new info is height and weight.

 

[Quoththeraven]

What I can't figure out is if Robert Christian was to meet his friend, Randall James Griffith, Friday night (one article stated 5 pm, another article stated 7 pm) at his home in West Baraboo to go deer hunting Saturday morning, why was Robert out in the area where they usually hunted on Friday night (11 miles away from West Baraboo), where he was seen in the driveway of a nun by a lady from Mauston who had been visiting the nun? Hunting didn't open until Saturday morning. The young male driver of the car matched Robert’s description and told the woman something like “I’m looking for my friend. I’m supposed to meet my friend.” The young man said he must be at the wrong place and then drove away to the east, toward Durward’s Glen Road. This was at 8:30 pm, well past the time he was supposed to meet Randy in West Baraboo.

(In September, under CST timezone, it typically gets dark around 6:30 - 7:00 PM depending on your location, as the sun sets progressively earlier throughout the month)

IMO, this sounds like he made arrangements with his friend Randy to meet there instead of at Randy's house. The article also states that "Randy Griffith's mother called the Christian's about 9:30 pm Friday night stating that Robert had not arrived in Baraboo."
So it wasn't Randy who called the Christian's, it was his mother.

The lady's story conflicts with Randy's story. Big time.

Baraboo News Republic Sat, Sep 15, 2007 Page 14 and Baraboo News Republic
Wed, Sep 21, 1977 Page 1 (Sources: Newspapers.com) and Sauk County Sheriff website.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1020201770150030&id=100064806485501

The article also stated that Christian's father, Lewis, found the vehicle at the radio tower on Albrecht Rd and reported it to the sheriff's dept. He stated he was irked because the deputy who responded drove right up to where the vehicle was found which potentially ruined evidence.

 

[Keiri]

That's why I don't buy the lady's story. Secondly, I think the checking his stand before hunting started also makes sense.

The rumored weed purchase may explain it all, if true.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Someone apparently switched the tires from the new car and placed worn-out tires to the vehicle.

Then, a witness confessed that on the evening of Christian's disappearance, she was visiting a friend. It was at her friend's driveway where she saw a car, which according to police, the witness' description matched with Christian's vehicle, so much so that the license plate numbers were the same.

The witness allegedly saw the driver that looked like Christian. The young man told the witness that he was looking for his friend he was supposed to meet up with, was in the wrong place, and shortly after drove east towards Durward's Glen Road.

Sauk Co. seeks more information on 1977 missing person case

MADISON, Wis. -- The Sauk County Sheriff's Office is seeking information about a 1977 missing person case that occurred on Sept. 16 of that year.

www.channel3000.com

 

[Quoththeraven]

He was, according to the family, meeting Randy at his house in Baraboo, not Durward's Glen. Randy was apparently interviewed, cooperated and cleared. As for his friends... I hadn't read anything about that either way. He could have been meeting with a friend in an unscheduled manner, but if he was, he didn't tell anyone about it.

Robert's mother said she didn't know of any friends of Robert's from that area. She also stated in the article above that she believed it was Bob's car in that driveway.

The lady from the driveway was visiting a nun who lived there. She came forward on her own. Bob's car was found not too far away at the radio tower. Her stsement to the police must have been pretty credible for the police to document her story. I read nothing where the police think she made the story up. And what does one have to do to get a statement from a witness verified? Did the police also talk to the nun? So, instead of meeting up with Randy he decides to stand him up and check his deer stand? From what I read, he was always punctual. And, his stand wasn't at the radio tower. And if Bob did park it there, then why? If it wasn't him, then whoever parked the car there must have been familiar with the area. I read somewhere a description of the location of the area he always hunted at. I wonder how close that was to the tower.

IMO, Bob didn't park the car there. He wouldn't leave his keys in the ignition and take all his belongings with him and leave the car unlocked. Not logical for an almost new-car owner. If he did go check out his hunting stand, as you stated, maybe that's where he got jacked and his car was driven by someone else to the radio tower and he was held captive on the way there. His scent was tracked by a bloodhound from the vehicle to the road, so we know he definitely was at that location. Maybe he tried running but was recaptured by the road. But, all that just for a set of tires, a battery and hunting gear? And his front license plate. Also, if Bob didn't drive his car to the radio tower and someone else did, another vehicle would have been needed to follow Bob's car to the tower and haul the tires away, which would mean there was a minimum of two other people involved. One could also speculate that the tower was used to meet up at for some unknown reason. It wouldn't be drugs because the police ruled that out.

I'd surmise that the other vehicle used Bob's front license plate on their vehicle either because they didn't have a plate on their vehicle and used Bob's plate to keep from being pulled over or until they got to where they were going and put their's back on, having taken their's off in case they were spotted leaving the crime scene they wouldn't want their plate recognized.

One last thing, his vehicle was targeted for its tires because it was the same kind of vehicle the suspect(s) drove. I wonder if the police ever did a registration check on all vehicles of that make in the area with the DOT. Probably not.

 

[Sweetluv]

I believe the driveway sighting....i don't see what the woman would get out of fabricating a story to LE. However, it was dark at the time..I doubt this woman got close enough to get a real good look at the driver. Maybe it was a young man with glasses driving Roberts car and waiting for another car to arrive....the Hornet was dropped off..stripped..and the driver hopped into this second car he was waiting for..
Still leaves you guessing what happened to Robert that hour or two prior and why?

 

[Sweetluv]

The route Robert would hv taken from his house , would he have reached Randy's first or the hunting area?
How far away was the Hornet to where the dogs lost scent?

 

[Keiri]

I don’t doubt she saw somebody, I don’t even really doubt it was the hornet. Someone else mentioned the thought someone else could have been driving the hornet at that point. Police of course would write a witness statement like that down, I would think.

Bob wasn’t supposed to meet Randy until later. I think bob stood Randy up. But not on purpose, whatever happened happened. Sweetluv, it’s a straight shot from Madison to baraboo where Randy was and it was along the way his car was found. I do think there were two vehicles because a) they needed one to haul away the tires etc and b) the scent stopped at the road. Which wasn’t very far. Which is another reason why I think whoever stripped the car hurt bob.

Also, that’s a brilliant point about the license plate.

 

[Quoththeraven]

The route Robert would hv taken from his house , would he have reached Randy's first or the hunting area?
How far away was the Hornet to where the dogs lost scent?

One mile difference using either route, Madison to West Baraboo. 53 or 59 minute drive, Hy 14 & 12 or I-90.
The Hornet was spotted from the road by Bob's brother, who was in their father's car. Maybe 100-200 feet from radio tower to the road.

 

[Keiri]

One mile difference using either route, Madison to West Baraboo. 53 or 59 minute drive, Hy 14 & 12 or I-90.
The Hornet was spotted from the road by Bob's brother, who was in their father's car. Maybe 100-200 feet from radio tower to the road.

View attachment 556618

See this map suggests to me he had a reason to take the 90 only if he had other reasons along the way. The roads are largely the same. My Wisconsin husband just told me “I’m fairly sure that 12 would have been a sensible route in 1977”

correction, he did take 12, per this blog. Not sure how they knew that.

Robert Louis Christian

Louis ChristianMissing since September 16, 1977 from Madison, WisconsinClassification: MissingVital Statistics * Age at Time of Disappearance: 18 years old * Distinguishin…

justicebeserved.wordpress.com

 

[Jenp7707]

One mile difference using either route, Madison to West Baraboo. 53 or 59 minute drive, Hy 14 & 12 or I-90.
The Hornet was spotted from the road by Bob's brother, who was in their father's car. Maybe 100-200 feet from radio tower to the road.

View attachment 556618

This is using today's speed limits and road size. Today the speed limits going 12 are mostly 55 with some areas being 65. 90 is now a 6 lane highway with a speed limit of 70. I'm not sure 12 has changed much, but from my understanding 90 was a 2 lane highway and I couldn't imagine the speed limit being more than 55/65. Obviously, this doesn't change the distance, but does play a role when talking about the time aspect.

 

[Sweetluv]

I assume Robert went to meet up with someone before going to Randy's..this could be why he was at the wrong house, lost, and told the witness he was looking for his friend. Did he then pull the car over , leave on foot to look around, and came across the person he was to meet on the road where the dogs lost his scent? Met foul play and the car returned to strip the Hornet?
Many scenarios..so frustrating.
It sounds like him and Randy have hunted there before. Did Robert ever go there to hunt without Randy?

 

[Jenp7707]

Do you have an address? I had looked at older maps because I didn’t see it. Albrecht road I couldn’t find on 1970s maps or current maps, and I thought it was simply renamed.View attachment 556483

The tower was completely torn down, but if you look close you can see the plot of land it was on. Based off the image on Google maps, the concrete slab is still there and you can vaguely see where the road leading to the tower was. I don't have an address but here is the rough coordinates.
43.434149,-89.619919

 

[Keiri]

The tower was completely torn down, but if you look close you can see the plot of land it was on. Based off the image on Google maps, the concrete slab is still there and you can vaguely see where the road leading to the tower was. I don't have an address but here is the rough coordinates.
43.434149,-89.619919

Thisis VERY helpful. So it's down the road a ways from the current tower. Not tooo tooo far but still, it's great to know exacts. 43°26'03.3"N 89°37'11.6"W I'd love to know who owns it now. Thank you so much