WI WI - Robert Christian, 18, Madison, 16 Sept 1977

[Keiri]

The case was updated today, and WOAH is it a big one. This is not what the articles said.

"A witness came forward and stated that at about 8:00pm on 09/16/1977, the evening of the disappearance, she was visiting a friend near the Durward’s Glen Retreat Center and encountered a car in her friend’s driveway. The car matched the description of the AMC Hornet and had the same license plate. The young male driver of the car matched Robert’s description and told the woman something like “Excuse me, I’m looking for Bob.” The witness recalled he said the last name but she couldn't recall what it was. The witness said the young man then said he must be at the wrong place and then drove away to the east, toward Durward’s Glen Road. The young man was never definitively identified but generally matched the description of Robert Christian."

Why would Bob be looking for Bob?! What is going on?! I thought the person was looking for "his friend"?

 

[Sweetluv]

That statement..I'm looking for Bob..is a huge difference than what was originally printed! But, it was definitely the Hornet and license plate(?) ..something is seriously wrong here..

 

[Keiri]

That statement..I'm looking for Bob..is a huge difference than what was originally printed! But, it was definitely the Hornet and license plate(?) ..something is seriously wrong here..

They should clear this up, was it or was it not Bob? I thought he said I was looking for my friend?!

Was it just a poor choice of wording? Something like "I'm looking for Bob" but they meant "I'm looking for so-and-so"? Or was the person looking for Bob?!

 

[Sweetluv]

So I do see that Namus updated Roberts case today. Not only do they mention the witness stating ....he said I'm looking for Bob....but, the license plate was thrown in the brush nearby. It was always stated the plate was missing..
This case is so frustrating.

 

[Keiri]

So I do see that Namus updated Roberts case today. Not only do they mention the witness stating ....he said I'm looking for Bob....but, the license plate was thrown in the brush nearby. It was always stated the plate was missing..
This case is so frustrating.

I missed that! That's important to know too! That ruins the idea of switching plates

 

[Quoththeraven]

The case was updated today, and WOAH is it a big one. This is not what the articles said.

"A witness came forward and stated that at about 8:00pm on 09/16/1977, the evening of the disappearance, she was visiting a friend near the Durward’s Glen Retreat Center and encountered a car in her friend’s driveway. The car matched the description of the AMC Hornet and had the same license plate. The young male driver of the car matched Robert’s description and told the woman something like “Excuse me, I’m looking for Bob.” The witness recalled he said the last name but she couldn't recall what it was. The witness said the young man then said he must be at the wrong place and then drove away to the east, toward Durward’s Glen Road. The young man was never definitively identified but generally matched the description of Robert Christian."

Why would Bob be looking for Bob?! What is going on?! I thought the person was looking for "his friend"?

IMO: Obviously this witness is the same woman from Mauston who was visiting the nun who lived near the retreat. Why was this specific information withheld from the public? The "wrong place" couldn't be mixed up with the radio tower. It had to be a residence close by. Was someone trying to throw a future investigation off by stopping at the nun's house while driving Bob's car?

If you recall one of the articles above, the father, Lewis Christian, who grew up in that area, stated that after his son Michael spotted the car by the radio tower, he ran over to a friend's house across the road from the tower to call the sheriff's department. Could that be where Bob or the guy who was looking for Bob was at? Did Bob stop at the residence across the street being it was a friend of his father's? Did something happen there and the vehicle was ditched across the street by the tower? I think the sheriff needs to again investigate that friend or that friend's family members who lived across the road.

The witness recalled he said the last name but she couldn't recall what it was.

Did the man introduce himself using just his last name? If not, what was the first name?

Missing Person / NamUs #MP9586

View NamUs missing person case MP9586 for Robert Louis Christian missing from Madison, Wisconsin. Date of last contact: Sep 16, 1977. NCMEC case number: --.

namus.nij.ojp.gov

 

[Keiri]

IMO: Obviously this witness is the same woman from Mauston who was visiting the nun who lived near the retreat. Why was this specific information withheld from the public? The "wrong place" couldn't be mixed up with the radio tower. It had to be a residence close by. Was someone trying to throw a future investigation off by stopping at the nun's house while driving Bob's car?

If you recall one of the articles above, the father, Lewis Christian, who grew up in that area, stated that after his son Michael spotted the car by the radio tower, he ran over to a friend's house across the road from the tower to call the sheriff's department. Could that be where Bob or the guy who was looking for Bob was at? Did Bob stop at the residence across the street being it was a friend of his father's? Did something happen there and the vehicle was ditched across the street by the tower? I think the sheriff needs to again investigate that friend or that friend's family members who lived across the road.


Did the man introduce himself using just his last name? If not, what was the first name?

Missing Person / NamUs #MP9586

View NamUs missing person case MP9586 for Robert Louis Christian missing from Madison, Wisconsin. Date of last contact: Sep 16, 1977. NCMEC case number: --.

namus.nij.ojp.gov

Quoth, I think they meant “I’m looking for Bob so and so” not “I am Bob so and so.”

Trying to be clear here but my explanation might not make sense.
Since she remembered they did say looking for Bob, and the update said she couldn’t recall the *last* name, it sounds like they are saying she *did* remember the first name: Bob. That should likely rule out Bob as the person she saw driving the hornet, no? Unless Bob was looking for another Bob which seems unlikely. But why would anyone be looking for him? Would they even think to throw off an investigation that way? You’d think they’d do something more definitive and noticeable than simply asking a person who didn’t even live there if she knew where Bob was.

Someone was driving the hornet, assuming she could recognize a hornet at sight, and was using the same plate. We can guess since the hornet still had tires they went back to the tower. At that point it may be they took the front plate off either the hornet or back plate off something they switched it with and threw it in the grass. The more I think about this the more I doubt parts of the eyewitness story.

I started looking for car tire thieves in Sauk county. Best I could do was a security guard stealing tires off a car of a worker in the same mall in 1982 - in Madison. Kids stole tires but almost exclusively from tire shops. That security guard was the only example I could find of taking them off the car from 1975-1982. I also looked for marijuana growing in the area but got no hits.

Huh, good point about calling the sheriff.
I’d like to know that house the dad ran to, as well, because most people living there from what I understand were involved with the retreat. Nuns aren’t going to sell marijuana.

One last thing. Who writes down a license plate of a lost kid looking for his friend? Why was that suspicious? Or did she memorize it? What on earth… so lost.

 

[Valiant]

The Hornet was always a unique vehicle simply because AMC did not sell that many cars. That’s why I gave some credence to the driveway sighting even before the license plate was mentioned.
But the tires and wheels from a Hornet would fit many Dodge, Plymouth, and Ford cars.
Stripping vehicles is often a crime of opportunity. Even today when you watch YouTube videos of car recovery the tires, batteries, and such are removed from abandoned vehicles in remote locations. In my mind, it’s possible the disappearance and thefts could be two unrelated crimes.

 

[Sweetluv]

I'm not mechanically inclined..so how hard is it to remove 4 tires without a car jack ? You would need more than one person? So I doubt this was done Friday evening in the dark..if it was, would a flashlight be enough or the headlights from another car? Saturday morning Bob's dad and Brother spotted his car..maybe it was stripped early Sat morning in the daylight?

 

[Valiant]

I'm not mechanically inclined..so how hard is it to remove 4 tires without a car jack ? You would need more than one person? So I doubt this was done Friday evening in the dark..if it was, would a flashlight be enough or the headlights from another car? Saturday morning Bob's dad and Brother spotted his car..maybe it was stripped early Sat morning in the daylight?

It could be a one person job. Pop off the hubcaps. Loosen the lug nuts. Raise and support the car (they mention the car’s jack was not used but did not say what). Remove lug nuts and tire/wheels. Let car down and repeat.
From my experience rotating tires in the past, a young fit guy could do this in an hour but help would make it even easier.
A hat or helmet with a light would help and might be something a hunter could have handy.

 

[Sweetluv]

If it was unrelated, wouldnt people coming up on the car take a great risk? I would assume they would think someone(s) was hunting and could come out of the woods at anytime with a bow or rifle? Especially if this stripping takes time...
But, if they knew Bob would not be returning, the car became easy prey.

 

[Quoththeraven]

Quoth, I think they meant “I’m looking for Bob so and so” not “I am Bob so and so.”

Trying to be clear here but my explanation might not make sense.
Since she remembered they did say looking for Bob, and the update said she couldn’t recall the *last* name, it sounds like they are saying she *did* remember the first name: Bob. That should likely rule out Bob as the person she saw driving the hornet, no? Unless Bob was looking for another Bob which seems unlikely. But why would anyone be looking for him? Would they even think to throw off an investigation that way? You’d think they’d do something more definitive and noticeable than simply asking a person who didn’t even live there if she knew where Bob was.

Someone was driving the hornet, assuming she could recognize a hornet at sight, and was using the same plate. We can guess since the hornet still had tires they went back to the tower. At that point it may be they took the front plate off either the hornet or back plate off something they switched it with and threw it in the grass. The more I think about this the more I doubt parts of the eyewitness story.

I started looking for car tire thieves in Sauk county. Best I could do was a security guard stealing tires off a car of a worker in the same mall in 1982 - in Madison. Kids stole tires but almost exclusively from tire shops. That security guard was the only example I could find of taking them off the car from 1975-1982. I also looked for marijuana growing in the area but got no hits.

Huh, good point about calling the sheriff.

Right, he stated he was looking for Bob according to the new info.

If it was unrelated, wouldnt people coming up on the car take a great risk? I would assume they would think someone(s) was hunting and could come out of the woods at anytime with a bow or rifle? Especially if this stripping takes time...
But, if they knew Bob would not be returning, the car became easy prey.

In this case hunting season didn't open until the next day, Saturday.

 

[Valiant]

If it was unrelated, wouldnt people coming up on the car take a great risk? I would assume they would think someone(s) was hunting and could come out of the woods at anytime with a bow or rifle? Especially if this stripping takes time...
But, if they knew Bob would not be returning, the car became easy prey.

It’s always risky stealing car parts, and would be less likely if they knew he wasn’t around for sure. But some thieves are very brazen.

 

[Sweetluv]

One thing is for sure..Bob met up with foul play. Maybe he seen something he shouldn't have or if he was alone, he/car looked like easy prey. Tower Road was not the place to be that night..between the person in the driveway the witness saw, Bob's car being stripped and items taken, and Bob himself vanishing that evening..the whole vibe seems shady.
I keep going back to the dogs losing his scent at the road..close distance to his car. Why leave your car to get into another one unless you knew the person?

 

[Keiri]

One thing is for sure..Bob met up with foul play. Maybe he seen something he shouldn't have or if he was alone, he/car looked like easy prey. Tower Road was not the place to be that night..between the person in the driveway the witness saw, Bob's car being stripped and items taken, and Bob himself vanishing that evening..the whole vibe seems shady.
I keep going back to the dogs losing his scent at the road..close distance to his car. Why leave your car to get into another one unless you knew the person?

might not have been alive or able to stop more than one person, or a stronger person.

As for foul play, that's always been my opinion too, but some theorize he got hurt and died in the woods.

 

[ShadowGrove]

With the new change to the witness statement, I’m curious whether that was Randy looking for Bob.

The timeline seems to fit where Bob leaves Madison (~17:30) and then doesn’t arrive on time to Randy’s place (~18:30). If Randy and his family got worried around an hour after Randy would/should have arrived (~19:30), then it fits that the witness saw Randy searching for Bob (~20:00). When Randy doesn’t find Bob, he goes back home and his mom calls Bob’s family (~21:30).

This leaves me with a few thoughts:

1. The witness came forward about a week after the disappearance. Witness statements are often bad in the best of circumstances, what are the odds that the witness “recalled” a Hornet, the exact plate, and a person matching Bob’s description over them having followed the news and miss-remembered what they saw? A similar vehicle with a similar plate and another man could easily be mistaken for the exact things the police and news were covering at the time. False memories and whatnot.

2. What vehicle did Randy’s household have at the time? Did it look at all like a Hornet? Similar plate maybe?

3. Do we know what Randy looked like at the time? Is it possible they looked similar enough that the witness mistook them after seeing the news?

4. If it wasn’t Randy looking that night, then could it have been anyone else that fits the timeline or description?

5. None of this speculation has anything to do with the disappearance or the vehicle being left, this is only an idea on how the timeline could have fit for someone else having been in the driveway where the witness saw them.

 

[Sweetluv]

On one hand, what would the witness gain by coming forward with a fabricated story....but, it would have been dark out when she encountered the car...how accurate could she be about the Hornet, license plate, and Bob as the driver?

 

[Sweetluv]

To remove the battery, someone would have needed to open the door and touch the door handle ..as well as pull the hood lever. Any fingerprints lifted other than Bobs?

 

[Sweetluv]

@ShadowGrove ..Randy's description would be helpful...agreed

 

[Keiri]

With the new change to the witness statement, I’m curious whether that was Randy looking for Bob.

The timeline seems to fit where Bob leaves Madison (~17:30) and then doesn’t arrive on time to Randy’s place (~18:30). If Randy and his family got worried around an hour after Randy would/should have arrived (~19:30), then it fits that the witness saw Randy searching for Bob (~20:00). When Randy doesn’t find Bob, he goes back home and his mom calls Bob’s family (~21:30).

This leaves me with a few thoughts:

1. The witness came forward about a week after the disappearance. Witness statements are often bad in the best of circumstances, what are the odds that the witness “recalled” a Hornet, the exact plate, and a person matching Bob’s description over them having followed the news and miss-remembered what they saw? A similar vehicle with a similar plate and another man could easily be mistaken for the exact things the police and news were covering at the time. False memories and whatnot.

2. What vehicle did Randy’s household have at the time? Did it look at all like a Hornet? Similar plate maybe?

3. Do we know what Randy looked like at the time? Is it possible they looked similar enough that the witness mistook them after seeing the news?

4. If it wasn’t Randy looking that night, then could it have been anyone else that fits the timeline or description?

5. None of this speculation has anything to do with the disappearance or the vehicle being left, this is only an idea on how the timeline could have fit for someone else having been in the driveway where the witness saw them.

I thought it was really impossible for it to be Randy because he was at home with his mom waiting. And the police cleared him. The witness statement just keeps on being problematic for lots of reasons.