WI WI - Robert Christian, 18, Madison, 16 Sept 1977

[Quoththeraven]

Throwing in another specificity - I found sunset time on that day, per Google. 7:07pm.

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So just for what I have as the story in my mind personally - I’m just so skeptical of the nuns friend account. I still think she mixed it up with people who were searching him the next day. 8:30 - it would’ve been full dark and if it was about to rain then it was cloudy so no moonlight. In a very rural area without street lights. And there was no license plate on the front. So is she saying she approached a car in the driveway, from the back of it, noted the plate and vehicle description and what they said? In the dark night? By herself? Because if the car turned around to leave the driveway, the taillights would not have illuminated the plate enough to read it as it left. I’m completely writing that sighting off IMO.

And, since the sun set at 7:07 pm, I doubt the person driving the car was hunting or scouting for deer in the dark.

Then that person, who was driving that vehicle that looked like Bob's vehicle and if it was the next day, Saturday, was also confused because if they were looking for Bob they were in the wrong place since Bob lived in Madison. If it was Bob looking for his friend's house, then he, too, was in the wrong place because his friend Randy lived 11 miles away in West Baraboo, not in the Town of Greenfield. And since the Griffith and Christian families knew each other for many years and they had hunted together in the past (Bob's father grew up in the area), especially in the area of the radio tower, Bob pretty much knew where his friend lived. West Baraboo. Bob's mother knew of no friends of Bob that lived in the area of the tower.

And the front license plate would probably still be on the car since it hadn't gotten to the tower yet. Unless, of course they drove to the tower, took the plate off and threw it in the brush where it was found and then went to the nun's house. Which I doubt. And, license plate lights can light up a license plate which can be read up to a distance of 50 feet because of the reflective paint on the plate.

 

[Teamir]

And, since the sun set at 7:07 pm, I doubt the person driving the car was hunting or scouting for deer in the dark.

Then that person, who was driving that vehicle that looked like Bob's vehicle and if it was the next day, Saturday, was also confused because if they were looking for Bob they were in the wrong place since Bob lived in Madison. If it was Bob looking for his friend's house, then he, too, was in the wrong place because his friend Randy lived 11 miles away in West Baraboo, not in the Town of Greenfield. And since the Griffith and Christian families knew each other for many years and they had hunted together in the past (Bob's father grew up in the area), especially in the area of the radio tower, Bob pretty much knew where his friend lived. West Baraboo. Bob's mother knew of no friends of Bob that lived in the area of the tower.

And the front license plate would probably still be on the car since it hadn't gotten to the tower yet. Unless, of course they drove to the tower, took the plate off and threw it in the brush where it was found and then went to the nun's house. Which I doubt. And, license plate lights can light up a license plate which can be read up to a distance of 50 feet because of the reflective paint on the plate.

You’re right on the plate light. They were mandatory by that time and were on all the 1979s AMC Hornets.

We are slowly fine tuning this one!

 

[Keiri]

I suggest one of two things: She had an encounter with someone looking for someone and she did not have the details of the license plate etc, because who would take down a license plate of a lost kid? and I feel it could have been a game of telephone over the *checks my birthday, 1977* 47 years since he went missing.
two: she mixed up days, and this was someone looking for Bob, etc

But I'm backing away from that sighting. I'm ALSO backing away from two things - the articles that said he took Hwy 12, because that comes apparently from an assumption from the parents in an interview "He would have taken HWY 12" is what I essentially read. He probably did, but nobody has the info if he did or didn't.
I also don't recall anyone actually seeing him at the hunting site.

 

[Teamir]

An issue we are having is that although there is a nice variety of media on this, THEY HAVE SO MANY CONTRASTING DETAILS AND TIMES! It’s making it difficult to figure out details.

For example, the mother’s letter to editor says someone saw him at the hunting spot. And no other media says that, in that way?

I took that to mean that someone saw him where he had hunted with his dad in years past, before sunset. Before the car was moved to the relay tower. Who was that person that saw him then? Because if I’m discounting the nun’s friend sighting, then THAT other person would’ve been the last one to see him alive.

 

[ShadowGrove]

Could Bob Christian have been looking for Bob Phillip's residence and got lost? Did Bob Phillips live in the vicinity?

Bob left Madison at 5:30 pm (usual driving time from his home at 5025 Open Wood Way, Madison to West Baraboo, one hour via Highway 12) and was seen by the Mauston woman at 8:30 pm. It typically gets dark 6:30-7:00 pm in Sept CST.

The open letter states he did go to the bluff where he had hunted with his father. I think the bluff is nearby the radio tower which is also on the bluff. I think that's what his mother meant. Also, hunting season did not open until the next day. The only witness who saw him that night about 8:30 pm was the woman at the nun's house. The witness said the young man then said he must be at the wrong place and then drove away to the east, toward Durward’s Glen Road.

I wonder if the tower was also in that direction? The only nearby place where Bob might have gone was the house across the road from the tower. That would be where a friend of Bob's father lived and where his father ran to to call the SCSD. His mother said she knew of no friends of Bob who lived in the area.

Thanks for the link to the letter from his mother which held another clue; Bob (or someone else) had left his bankbook on the dashboard.

Who is this “Bob Phillips” that has been referenced recently? Is that referring to Randy Griffith’s brother? I haven’t seen the name Phillips in the case until the most recent posts.

 

[Keiri]

Who is this “Bob Phillips” that has been referenced recently? Is that referring to Randy Griffith’s brother? I haven’t seen the name Phillips in the case until the most recent posts.

Yeah I'm not sure who Bob Phillips is either, I meant Bob Griffith as the brother of Randy. I was going to ask this too.

 

[Quoththeraven]

Who is this “Bob Phillips” that has been referenced recently? Is that referring to Randy Griffith’s brother? I haven’t seen the name Phillips in the case until the most recent posts.

Right, should have been Randy Griffith's brother instead, otherwise known as Robert Griffith. It was speculated that the guy at the nun's house was looking for Bob Griffith. Or was it Bob Christian looking for Bob Griffith? That's why I queried whether Bob Griffeth lived across the road from the water tower and where Lewis Christian went to call SCSD. I may have inadvertently pulled the Phillips name out a hat. Sorry for the confusion.

WI Post in thread 'WI - Robert Christian, 18, Madison, 16 Sept 1977'

Jan 13, 2025

well well well.. Randy had a brother, older than him, named Robert… who they called Bob. Bob <—- article link

Was Bob actually looking for…Bob?

• Keiri

• 
• 

 

[Quoththeraven]

Could Bob Christian have been looking for Bob Phillip's residence and got lost? Did Bob Phillips live in the vicinity?

Bob left Madison at 5:30 pm (usual driving time from his home at 5025 Open Wood Way, Madison to West Baraboo, one hour via Highway 12) and was seen by the Mauston woman at 8:30 pm. It typically gets dark 6:30-7:00 pm in Sept CST.

The open letter states he did go to the bluff where he had hunted with his father. I think the bluff is nearby the radio tower which is also on the bluff. I think that's what his mother meant. Also, hunting season did not open until the next day. The only witness who saw him that night about 8:30 pm was the woman at the nun's house. The witness said the young man then said he must be at the wrong place and then drove away to the east, toward Durward’s Glen Road.

I wonder if the tower was also in that direction? The only nearby place where Bob might have gone was the house across the road from the tower. That would be where a friend of Bob's father lived and where his father ran to to call the SCSD. His mother said she knew of no friends of Bob who lived in the area.

Thanks for the link to the letter from his mother which held another clue; Bob (or someone else) had left his bankbook on the dashboard.

Could Bob Christian have been looking for Bob Phillips Griffith residence and got lost? Did Bob Phillips Griffith live in the vicinity?

 

[Valiant]

Very informative article..
Because of the rain, I assume thats why they think a jack was not used to remove the tires. ..
Why DID Bob go there in the dark first!?

I think what was said was the car’s jack was not used to remove the tires. They probably said that because the Hornet’s jack was still in the storage location and it would have been unlikely a thief would steal the tires and put the jack away.
A different jack could have still been used, but on soft ground any jack is difficult to use.

 

[Keiri]

Could Bob Christian have been looking for Bob Phillips Griffith residence and got lost? Did Bob Phillips Griffith live in the vicinity?

He never left baraboo and still lives there now, in his 80s.

 

[Jenp7707]

Thought on missing tires/other items

From my understanding the tower sat back a bit from the road. It's in an area that is heavily wooded and it would have been dark starting around 7pm on that night.

I know some guys that serviced this tower a few years after Robert's disappearance. While chatting with them I learned that the lane that lead to the tower was narrow and easily missed if you didn't know exactly where you were going.

I believe that someone would have had to follow Robert to this location, or it was a preplanned meet up at this location. The tire theives minimumly know why the car is there.

 

[Quoththeraven]

I think what was said was the car’s jack was not used to remove the tires. They probably said that because the Hornet’s jack was still in the storage location and it would have been unlikely a thief would steal the tires and put the jack away.
A different jack could have still been used, but on soft ground any jack is difficult to use.

They prob used their own hydraulic floor jack on a piece of plywood. That would be the quickest way.

 

[Keiri]

I just thought of something. Why did they go to the trouble of removing the front license plate just to dump it next to them in some grass and weeds? And further, why did they leave the rear one on? Does this explain the nun friend’s sighting of the license plate because they put it on their own car, then disposed of it at the relay later?

 

[Sweetluv]

Maybe, when removing the battery, they removed the front plate..then thought better of it and threw it into the brush(?)
How far of a drive from the place the car was found to the house of the witness? Also, how far from the car to where Roberts scent was picked up at the road?

 

[Keiri]

Maybe, when removing the battery, they removed the front plate..then thought better of it and threw it into the brush(?)
How far of a drive from the place the car was found to the house of the witness? Also, how far from the car to where Roberts scent was picked up at the road?

There's info on that somewhere in this thread, but off the top of my head the relay/car to the road was negligible, like feet.

 

[Quoththeraven]

I just thought of something. Why did they go to the trouble of removing the front license plate just to dump it next to them in some grass and weeds? And further, why did they leave the rear one on? Does this explain the nun friend’s sighting of the license plate because they put it on their own car, then disposed of it at the relay later?

Maybe they planned on putting their plates on Robert's Hornet and driving it to another location but decided against it? Maybe they couldn't get the bolts off the rear plate? Maybe they were in the process when Robert surprised them. They then chased him to where their vehicle was parked which would be where the dog lost Robert's scent. Lots of different scenarios.

I wish LE would say if the dog picked up Robert's scent coming out of the woods. I highly doubt that Robert was poaching before the season was open the next morning which would be the only reason he had the bow/arrows with him, if, indeed, he even had them at all. I rule that out because his mother's medical equipment was also missing. Because this area was near his hunting area and his tree stand and across the road from his father's friend tells me that he recognized whoever took him and they couldn't risk being identified/arrested as they had the car already stripped down. I'm just speculating.

IMO, Robert's friend (Bob Griffith) said Robert never showed up at his (Bob Griffith's) residence in West Baraboo as planned. He had his mother call Robert's mother and tell her Robert never showed up at 5 pm as planned. I find it odd that Griffith never made a statement or publicly commented on his friend's case in the last 46 years. Just because someone was cleared doesn't mean they actually were. LE makes a lot of investigative mistakes. In many cases, the guilty party will have someone else contact the police to deflect attention off themselves.
Robert's mother Carolynn stated in the Baraboo News Republic Sat, Sep 15, 2007 Page 14, "If he didn't show up, something was wrong. He was a very reliable person, very honest. If he said he was going to be somewhere, he would be there. If he said he was going to do something, he would do it."

Robert's mother knew of no friends of Robert's that lived in the area of the tower. Robert's father, who was searching the area, ran across Albrecht Road (now Tower Road) from the tower to a friend's house to call the Sauk County sheriff's department after his son Mike spotted the car near the tower as they drove by. Robert's father, Lewis, said he was annoyed that the deputy drove his squad car over any potential evidence that may have been found on the access road to the tower.

Bob was very familiar with the area of the bluffs where his car was found and was a good woodsman and an experienced bow hunter. A search dog lost Bob's scent (on the access road to the tower) a short distance from Albrecht Road. I found no article stating where the scent was first picked up. From by his car?

"Carolynn said about 8 pm the Friday of the disappearance, a Mauston woman visiting a nun near the Durward's Glen retreat site encountered a car in her friend's driveway that matched the description of the Hornet and had the same license plate. The young male driver of the car matched Robert's description and told the woman something like, "I'm looking for my friend, I'm supposed to meet my friend." The young man said he must be at the wrong place and then drove away to the east, opposite the relay tower location."
I wish we knew the exact location of the former relay tower on Tower Rd, the exact location of the nun's house and the exact location of Robert's hunting stand near the tower.

NAMUS states his vehicle was parked in a driveway near the State Patrol relay antenna on Tower Road between Bluff Road and the Sauk/Columbia County line in the Township of Greenfield, Sauk County. Bluff Road is 2.4 miles west of Durward’s Glen Retreat.

Anybody living in the area of Reedsburg, WI that could obtain a photocopy of a 1977 Sauk County plat map or a local plat map of the area we're researching and post it to this thread? They don't do interlibrary loans of research material. TIA

Durward’s Glen Retreat & Conference Center to Tower Road & Bluff Road

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[Keiri]

For the sake of less confusion, you may want to edit your post to say Randy Griffith, not Bob Griffith. Too many bobs!

 

[Quoththeraven]

IMO, Robert's friend (Bob Randy Griffith) said Robert never showed up at his (Bob Randy Griffith's) residence in West Baraboo as planned.

Correction: Bob Griffith should be Randy Griffith in my last post. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Keiri]

Correction: Bob Griffith should be Randy Griffith in my last post. Sorry for the confusion.

Sorry, only trying to help, friend.

 

[ShadowGrove]

Maybe they planned on putting their plates on Robert's Hornet and driving it to another location but decided against it? Maybe they couldn't get the bolts off the rear plate? Maybe they were in the process when Robert surprised them. They then chased him to where their vehicle was parked which would be where the dog lost Robert's scent. Lots of different scenarios.

I wish LE would say if the dog picked up Robert's scent coming out of the woods. I highly doubt that Robert was poaching before the season was open the next morning which would be the only reason he had the bow/arrows with him, if, indeed, he even had them at all. I rule that out because his mother's medical equipment was also missing. Because this area was near his hunting area and his tree stand and across the road from his father's friend tells me that he recognized whoever took him and they couldn't risk being identified/arrested as they had the car already stripped down. I'm just speculating.

IMO, Robert's friend (Bob Griffith) said Robert never showed up at his (Bob Griffith's) residence in West Baraboo as planned. He had his mother call Robert's mother and tell her Robert never showed up at 5 pm as planned. I find it odd that Griffith never made a statement or publicly commented on his friend's case in the last 46 years. Just because someone was cleared doesn't mean they actually were. LE makes a lot of investigative mistakes. In many cases, the guilty party will have someone else contact the police to deflect attention off themselves.
Robert's mother Carolynn stated in the Baraboo News Republic Sat, Sep 15, 2007 Page 14, "If he didn't show up, something was wrong. He was a very reliable person, very honest. If he said he was going to be somewhere, he would be there. If he said he was going to do something, he would do it."

Robert's mother knew of no friends of Robert's that lived in the area of the tower. Robert's father, who was searching the area, ran across Albrecht Road (now Tower Road) from the tower to a friend's house to call the Sauk County sheriff's department after his son Mike spotted the car near the tower as they drove by. Robert's father, Lewis, said he was annoyed that the deputy drove his squad car over any potential evidence that may have been found on the access road to the tower.

Bob was very familiar with the area of the bluffs where his car was found and was a good woodsman and an experienced bow hunter. A search dog lost Bob's scent (on the access road to the tower) a short distance from Albrecht Road. I found no article stating where the scent was first picked up. From by his car?

"Carolynn said about 8 pm the Friday of the disappearance, a Mauston woman visiting a nun near the Durward's Glen retreat site encountered a car in her friend's driveway that matched the description of the Hornet and had the same license plate. The young male driver of the car matched Robert's description and told the woman something like, "I'm looking for my friend, I'm supposed to meet my friend." The young man said he must be at the wrong place and then drove away to the east, opposite the relay tower location."
I wish we knew the exact location of the former relay tower on Tower Rd, the exact location of the nun's house and the exact location of Robert's hunting stand near the tower.

NAMUS states his vehicle was parked in a driveway near the State Patrol relay antenna on Tower Road between Bluff Road and the Sauk/Columbia County line in the Township of Greenfield, Sauk County. Bluff Road is 2.4 miles west of Durward’s Glen Retreat.

Anybody living in the area of Reedsburg, WI that could obtain a photocopy of a 1977 Sauk County plat map or a local plat map of the area we're researching and post it to this thread? They don't do interlibrary loans of research material. TIA

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Durward’s Glen Retreat & Conference Center to Tower Road & Bluff Road

maps.app.goo.gl

Here is a 1960s plat map of Greenfield Township in Sauk County. Tower Road is along the bottom of the map with the area in question at the bottom right corner.