WI WI - Rothschild, WhtMale pre-50s, UP131512, possibly WWI veteran, lavender checkered tie, tattoos, Sep’30

[Teamir]

According to this website, if the ship tattoo was of a fully rigged ship, it meant he’d sailed around Cape Horn. If the girl’s head tattoo was a hula girl, it meant he’d been to Hawaii.

 

[Keiri]

Army or Marine or both? I think he was a Marine or Navy.

Edited to add “or Navy”

All branches, the Wisconsin military museum has a WWI database. I went through everything they had, including weird branches. He could easily have taken the train in from Illinois. So that’s my next step if I can.

 

[Keiri]

doe network link https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/software/main.html?id=4196umwi

 

[lightofmine99]

His NamUS was modified today; there are still no public exclusions.

It looks like the age range was changed to be more specific: 37-47.

 

[Naenaerae]

All branches, the Wisconsin military museum has a WWI database. I went through everything they had, including weird branches. He could easily have taken the train in from Illinois. So that’s my next step if I can.

Did you end up finding a database for Illinois?

 

[Keiri]

Did you end up finding a database for Illinois?

Haven't had the chance to dig into it yet, but the archive has records I was going to review: Archives of Illinois WWI
I also emailed the law enforcement group with the people I've excluded who went missing around then because either they were the wrong age, showed up again, or weren't veterans. Can't hurt for them to have a list anyway.

 

[Pirdie21]

Doesn’t he sound like he could be Major Charles Whittlesey or Roy J Frisch a little?
(It’s not letting me attach the links yet sorry)

 

[madamx]

Rothschild John Doe (1930)
a.k.a "Sailor John Doe”
UP131512 (NU)​

Circumstances:
An unidentified male was recovered in Rothschild, Wisconsin. Prior to, he had arrived to the community via train. He had left a note that mentioned his time in the war. Despite efforts, no one was able to identify him. He had a Statue of Liberty tattoo on his left arm, an American flag and initials "PR" and "USA" on his left arm, he also had a sailing vessel on his right arm. (per NamUs).

Spoiler: INFORMATION

Case Numbers:

• NamUs: UP131512
• Doe Network: N/A
• ME/C: 1930-256
• NCMEC: N/A

Overview:

• Location: Rothschild, Wisconsin (Marathon Co.)
• Date Body Found: September 24, 1950.
• NamUs Created: October 17, 2024.
• Tribal Land: NO
• PMI: N/A
• State of Remains: Not recognizable - partial skeletal parts only.
• Cause of Death: UNKNOWN

Physical:

• Sex: Male
• Race/Ethnicity: White/Caucasian
• Age: Adult, pre-50).
• Height: 5' 8" (68 in.), est.
• Weight: 160-200 lbs., est.
• Hair: BROWN
  • Male pattern baldness.
• Eye: UNKNOWN

Identifiers:

• Dentals: UNKNOWN
• DNA: UNKNOWN
• Prints: UNKNOWN
• Marks / Features:
  • Statue of Liberty tattoo on left arm.
  • American flag tattoo on left arm.
  • Initials “PR” and “USA” tattoo on left arm.
  • “Sailing vessel” tattoo on right arm.
  • Male pattern baldness.

Personal Effects:

• Clothing:
  • Dark blue serge double breasted suit.
  • Blue work shirt.
  • Lavender and white checkered tie.
  • Gray “soft hat,” size 7 ⅛.
  • New 8 inch top brown “work shoes,” size 8.5.
• Jewelry: UNKNOWN
• Add'l Items: UNKNOWN

Links:
NamUs: UP131512 (ARCHIVE)
Doe Network: N/A
NCMEC: N/A

Notes:
As of October 21, 2024 there are no public exclusions.

This John Doe from 1930 was not added into NamUs until October 17, 2024.

This mentions he had a Statue of Liberty tattoo . Could he have been from NYC?

 

[MadMcGoo]

Doesn’t he sound like he could be Major Charles Whittlesey or Roy J Frisch a little?
(It’s not letting me attach the links yet sorry)

Charles W. Whittlesey - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Roy J. Frisch – The Charley Project (I think he can be ruled out because he disappeared after this Doe died)

 

[Pirdie21]

Charles W. Whittlesey - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Roy J. Frisch – The Charley Project (I think he can be ruled out because he disappeared after this Doe died)

It’s assumed he drowned but never found, he could’ve left on a raft or something.

 

[MadMcGoo]

It’s assumed he drowned but never found, he could’ve left on a raft or something.

You're right. I meant that Roy Frisch could probably be ruled out because he was last known to be alive in 1934, several years after this Doe was discovered.

 

[Pirdie21]

This mentions he had a Statue of Liberty tattoo . Could he have been from NYC?

You're right. I meant that Roy Frisch could probably be ruled out because he was last known to be alive in 1934, several years after this Doe was discovered.

Sometimes years / any details can be wrong especially that long ago… look up Charles tho .. he left notes on that ship , from NY born in WI… idk if it’s my phone or what but it’s not letting me link anything, sorry

 

[Pirdie21]

View attachment 565781

Sometimes years / any details can be wrong especially that long ago… look up Charles tho .. he left notes on that ship , from NY born in WI… idk if it’s my phone or what but it’s not letting me link anything, sorry

Look on Wisconsin life Charles whittlesey

 

[MadMcGoo]

Look on Wisconsin life Charles whittlesey

Charles White Whittlesey – The Charley Project

Details have certainly been wrong in cases this old, I agree.

 

[Keiri]

Honestly just occams razor here I wouldn’t spend too much time on the whittlesey angle. It’s a long way from the ocean a day out from ny to Midwest nowheresville Wisconsin. Plus this guy left a letter complaining America wasn’t the land of plenty it pretended to be and he couldn’t find a job. That seems quite unlike anything whittlesey would say. He had assets and left them to family.
Plus the whole PR tattoo thing. I think it’s entirely more likely it was an out of stater or even a Canadian.

 

[MadMcGoo]

It's too bad there's no reconstruction of him or his tattoos someplace.

 

[Pirdie21]

Honestly just occams razor here I wouldn’t spend too much time on the whittlesey angle. It’s a long way from the ocean a day out from ny to Midwest nowheresville Wisconsin. Plus this guy left a letter complaining America wasn’t the land of plenty it pretended to be and he couldn’t find a job. That seems quite unlike anything whittlesey would say. He had assets and left them to family.
Plus the whole PR tattoo thing. I think it’s entirely more likely it was an out of stater or even a Canadian.

He left notes & stuff too tho.. there are a lot of similarities & after so many years I’m sure some details aren’t exactly correct… the PR could be some family member, an old gf, maybe private reservest or some ranking, even a drunken mistake.

 

[Keiri]

He left notes & stuff too tho.. there are a lot of similarities & after so many years I’m sure some details aren’t exactly correct… the PR could be some family member, an old gf, maybe private reservest or some ranking, even a drunken mistake.

Most of the letters were never revealed, and those that were, were far different from the letter we see here. Major Charles W. Whittlesey and the Lost Battalion - Congressional Medal of Honor Society

This man suffered from extreme ptsd, and disappeared at sea. I agree the pr thing is weak. But He was also very ill, and this would have been evident with an autopsy: https://arlingtoncemetery.mil/Blog/...l-Charles-Whittlesey-and-the-Costs-of-Heroism
(Tuberculosis)

This incredibly introverted and emotionally damaged man would have had to have found a way to survive jumping off a ship a day out from ny, somehow made it to shore, found his way nine years later, not to Florence but some tiny town, wrote a public suicide letter (all the other notes were private) complaining about the United States and his inability to get a job.. whittlesey was so patriotic he went into battle despite knowing it was basically suicide. He’s not going to bash the United States.
I know it can be exciting to think such a mystery could be solved, but this is so unlikely. Whittlesey probably didn’t even have tattoos.

Read the letters from the doe here. Are these the letters of a Harvard grad?
I just.. I know how exciting it can be but I’m 99% sure this isn’t him.

 

[Pirdie21]

Most of the letters were never revealed, and those that were, were far different from the letter we see here. Major Charles W. Whittlesey and the Lost Battalion - Congressional Medal of Honor Society

This man suffered from extreme ptsd, and disappeared at sea. I agree the pr thing is weak. But He was also very ill, and this would have been evident with an autopsy: https://arlingtoncemetery.mil/Blog/...l-Charles-Whittlesey-and-the-Costs-of-Heroism
(Tuberculosis)

This incredibly introverted and emotionally damaged man would have had to have found a way to survive jumping off a ship a day out from ny, somehow made it to shore, found his way nine years later, not to Florence but some tiny town, wrote a public suicide letter (all the other notes were private) complaining about the United States and his inability to get a job.. whittlesey was so patriotic he went into battle despite knowing it was basically suicide. He’s not going to bash the United States.
I know it can be exciting to think such a mystery could be solved, but this is so unlikely. Whittlesey probably didn’t even have tattoos.

Read the letters from the doe here. Are these the letters of a Harvard grad?
I just.. I know how exciting it can be but I’m 99% sure this isn’t him.

A lot of stuff says he felt guilt & idk how thorough autopsy’s were in the 30’s so they might’ve just saw suicide & left it like that… maybe he didn’t even jump , just hid & snuck out on land cuz he’d rather be thought 2 be dead then AWOL or something.. the TB could’ve affected his brain with the writings &/or he was obviously very stressed & upset so maybe that too.. idk just something I came across i thought I’d share.

 

[Caring1]

MP96395 Melvin Leonard Raphe was last seen in Indianapolis, IN 12/31/27.

His physical stats fall into the estimated range of this UID including brown hair and balding. He would have been 34 in 1930. He was reported to be 5’8-5’11 and 150-180 lbs.

Melvin’s NamUs also mentions tattoos indicating his military service in the 12th Cavalry Regiment; 1st Kansas National Guard and the 137th Infantry Regiment, 35th Division, American Expeditionary Force but nothing specific.

There is almost a 3 year gap from when Melvin was reported missing to when unidentified was found but there does appear to be a few similarities between the two.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov