Will George, Cindy & Lee Deny the Abuse Allegations?

[Solace]

I think GA, CA, and LA will go along with the defense claim of abuse......up to a point. I think both GA and LA will deny the allegations of sexual molestation.

George DID say he would do anything for his daughter. JB asked him, "even if you got a subpoena and I asked you to not come to court?" George said he would do just that, not come to court. It was as if George was saying he'd break the law to help his daughter.

In recent weeks we've learned that GA and CA's attorney, Lippman, has met with JB, along with CA. I think there's been a certain amount of orchestration going on with GA, CA, their attorney, and the defense team. I'm sure that GA and CA were well aware that there would be allegations of parental abuse and they're willing participants in that portrayal. Their attorney, Lippman, made a statement denying his client, GA, had anything to do with Caylee's death. I think that's all part of the orchestration too, as a means to make it appear like they're adversaries of the defense team's allegations.

I don't think Lippman would go along with any kind of deception to get KC off. I really don't - his license is much to important to him. I don't see him having a meeting with the defense and the defense even telling them they were going to do this. All George would have to do is break down and start talking to the state about this and how he thought it would help and it would be a disaster for the defense.

I cannot see them doing something as stupid as telling George he is going to be the fall guy and we would appreciate your going along with it. Plus cheney said he did not want them in the courtroom because he intended to impeach their testimony.

Lets not forget all this that we were privy to.

 

[Leila]

He hasn't denied it yet, and I think if asked, Lee would deny it. I don't think Lee will go under the bus for Casey. Last time he was on the stand, I definitely got the impression he was not on the same page as Casey. He loves her, but I highly doubt he's going to throw his life away to save her. I don't think Cindy or George would want Lee to destroy his life for Casey either. He's their last hope for grandchildren, so there's no way they would want him going down for Casey.

I think George will keep denying the abuse through his lawyer, and I have the feeling if asked he would deny it, but I have this suspicion that Cindy might be trying to talk him into throwing himself under the bus for Casey, or Cindy is scheming with the defense to make George the fall person but not telling George about it. I don't think Cindy is willing to ruin herself at all, but I do think she doesn't mind George being the fall person if it saves Casey. In fact, if he went to jail in Casey's place, I think that would be just fine with Cindy. Crazy, yes, but I think Cindy values Casey way way WAY more than she values George. The fact she and her lawyer met with the defense without George (I think it was just her and not George but correct me if I'm wrong) tells me something is brewing behind the scenes, and I wouldn't be surprised if George found himself as the one who gets the blame when he didn't think that was going to happen, and lo and behold, Cindy doesn't try to save him or defend him. In fact, she will probably go into martyr mode, surprised and aghast at George's abuse, and claim she had no idea it was going, only if she knew she could have done something, etc. If I was George, I would be very nervous with the trial starting tomorrow.

Now, the only denial out there is a through the A's lawyer. None of them have ever come out and denied the abuse, which is mighty hinky to me. Abuse is not something to stay quiet about, and they only say it didn't happen through their lawyer? And Lee hasn't denied it all. So I'm not sure what is going on behind the scenes there. I guess we'll see what happens once it starts coming out in court, starting probably in Baez's opening statements tomorrow.

I do wonder, though, if maybe GA and CA made a deal with the defense - leave Lee alone, and we'll do what you want? I do wonder about that. I can see them making a deal so that Lee is spared.

I think Lee will deny the sexual molestation. But what I'm wondering about at this point is if Lee will testify that his sister and him (?) were mentally and emotionally abused by their parents, and both made scapegoats for their parent's misconduct supporting the DT's allegations?

 

[Oakley]

I expect that the SA will not bring this issue up. If the DT does then GA, LA and CA will all deny it.

I hope you guys won't start throwing things at me but I have to say it really disturbs me how many people have so instantly and firmly decided that Casey was never abused. Yes, she we have proof that she is a liar, a thief, a manipulator, a murderer and we have lots of evidence that points to her most likely having a personality disorder (no proof though in terms of a diagnosis by an expert). Just because Casey is a majorly screwed up person doesn't mean she wasn't abused. IMHO it actually points to the likelihood that she was abused. Sort of a "proof is in the pudding" thing. I believe Casey was born with a seriously bad genetic mix. She was probably always going to have some issues in life. But had she been raised by normal, loving parents who were sensitive to her needs and got her therapy and made the right choices for her - I think it's quite possible Casey could have lived a normal productive life. It wasn't a forgone conclusion that she would become who and what she is when she was born - but being raised in that household sealed the deal.

Also, IMHO the "abuse story" Casey told has a ring of truth to it for many reasons. For instance, why accuse Lee and make him the major perp? Surely Casey knew that accusing GA would be "easier" since there was more evidence that could be stretched to blame Caylee's death on him. It would have worked better for her defense to accuse GA. In fact she never actually accuses GA - she says she "thinks" he might have done the same thing to her. And why make the "abuse story" so "soft"? Not to downplay molestation, it's horrible and there's no excuse for it. But if Casey's motivation was to make a good story for her defense why not make the "abuse story" much worse? If she had claimed for instance that Lee had actually raped her then she could have used that story later as a mitigating circumstance to claim that she never bonded with Caylee because she thought that Caylee might be the product of an incestuous rape. Caylee's very name could have been used as evidence that Casey was "signaling" her fears about Caylee's parentage to the world. (Yes I know Caylee is neither GA's nor LA's child. I'm saying Casey could have claimed she THOUGHT Caylee was.) Why accuse Lee at all? Isn't he the one that Casey felt she was the closest too? That they had a special bond? I think abuse makes for a very confused relationship. IF there was abuse Casey probably sometimes hated LA and sometimes felt like they shared a special "secret". Many abuse victims struggle with the fact that they still love their abusers, especially when they are family members. And IF Casey was ALSO abused (in any form) by her parents then she could have felt a bond with LA that was an "us against them" type of thing there as well. And the sports bra. That's such a true element. Why was Casey wearing a bra to bed? At the age of twelve?? To me this is the "truest" of all the elements of the story. Many victims of sexual abuse sleep in many layers of clothing as a defense mechanism.

Why are most people so quick to let GA & LA off the hook? In the case of GA lets look at what we know about him. He has a history of lying - major lies too. The whole losing a major amount of family money through online gambling... or was it through a bank scheme?? The story changes each time he tells it. And who was doing all those searches for escort services on the A's computer? This is also a guy who has major anger problems. More than one family member tells the story of GA throwing his own father through a plate glass window. We've seen GA on camera many times being physically confrontational & having to be restrained by Cindy. He takes his anger to actual assault by shoving a woman protester, and spraying them with hoses. Despite being aware that the camera is on him & being in a court of law, GA has been verbally combative in depos and in testimony. None of this has anything directly to do with sexual abuse but I would posit that it does paint a picture of someone who has trouble respecting other people physically and isn't in control of himself.

As far as behaviors that do tend to point towards sexual inappropriateness - how about how GA always makes a major point of addressing Casey as gorgeous and beautiful in the video chats? Is this a father with a narcissist for a daughter who has learned to get on her good side by flattering her? Quite possibly. Could it also be a sign of an inappropriate relationship? Maybe. What about GA becoming aggressive towards Jesse when he "caught" them watching a movie, fully clothed and sitting on Casey's bed? According to Jesse GA got into a major snit and threw Jesse out. Seriously!? Casey had already had a child by then. What did GA think he was preventing from happening there? Could this scenario fit with that of a sexual abuser asserting his control and territory? What about GA's "relationship" with River Cruz? We have no proof of anything there but it deserves some thought. It was at the least ill advised and inappropriate considering the circumstances of his life at the time. It again points to a lack of self control, boundaries. Did he seriously think he could get away with that considering the scrutiny he was under?

What about Jesse's story that Casey told him about Lee "trying to have sex with her"? Could this be another Casey lie? Totally. But then again if she ever was going to tell anyone it would have been Jesse. And this was prior to Casey ever needing an abuse excuse for her defense.

Anyhow - sorry for making this post so long! To wrap it up - do I think Casey was abused? I have no idea. We have no absolute proof whatsoever that anything of that nature ever happened. But there are enough factors that cause the "abuse theory" to not be ruled out either. We have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. Abusers can be any color, creed or class. They can be successful men with beautiful wives. They can be the creepy looking guy who gives off a weird vibe or they can be your friendly neighbor who always was so helpful and nice. Could Casey have been abused? It's totally possible.

Great, insightful post. My first reaction was "I totally agree" until I thought of the jail visit video's with her parents and the call home ("Give me Tony's number" etc.) Almost seems to me that they cowtowed (sp?) to her and were walking on eggs, afraid to upset her in any way. I think GA tried to keep her accountable but Cindy wouldn't permit it. Thinking of Casey's behavior when Rob, Tracey and Leonard were there. She was the queen. But no doubt about it, that family could be a poster family for dysfunction. If anyone in that family was a 'scapegoat' (as AF contends ICA was) it was that sweet precious baby Caylee. IMO.

 

[GutFeeling!]

Isn't it a sad state of affairs when there is a woman accused of killing her child that lies that when it comes to her family people can't even believe that they will actually tell the truth on the stand.

They can raise their hand, swear to tell the truth and people expect them to lie. My life revolves around the truth and facts - these people lie like a pig in mud.

 

[shgrbkr]

I do not believe any of the Anthonys will roll over for KC. However, they may very well state that it is possible that there are things that MAY have happened without anyone knowing for sure what was going on. In this way, they could throw that card on the table without actually playing the game.

 

[nursebeeme]

excuse me if I am wrong (I may be) but didn't hhjp say that there would be no SURPRISES in this trial??? that everything testified to was in depo?

okay...

so if this abuse this is to come in... it will be in mitigation..

MOO

(and yes I believe they all will fall on swords, anything sharp, under moving buses, to save their C M A )

***sick****

 

[Leila]

Sort of off-topic, but also pertaining to this topic.............someone posted a great smiley of a person getting thrown under a bus. Does anyone have a copy of that smiley? I think we're going to see that one used a lot during this trial.

 

[scotslass]

Isn't it a sad state of affairs when there is a woman accused of killing her child that lies that when it comes to her family people can't even believe that they will actually tell the truth on the stand.

They can raise their hand, swear to tell the truth and people expect them to lie. My life revolves around the truth and facts - these people lie like a pig in mud.

Maybe it has all be some kind of ruse and they have no intention of showing up to testify.. Perhaps thats why they avoided Jury selection busy making alternate plans. Now that would be a typical anthony bombshell.. would there be a mistrial without the A's testimony?

OMG i was kidding but now that is actually going to play on my mind... I cant wait for this trial to begin and end all at the same time

 

[cleo612]

I don't understand how this was missed - Lippman came out with a press release denying all of this. It is a moot point.

It doesn't matter what Lippman told the public. The jury has not heard his press release (and even if they DID hear it, that was before the trial started, so it cannot be considered evidence at trial).

It is not a moot point, in my opinion.

 

[affinity]

I expect that the SA will not bring this issue up. If the DT does then GA, LA and CA will all deny it.

I hope you guys won't start throwing things at me but I have to say it really disturbs me how many people have so instantly and firmly decided that Casey was never abused. Yes, she we have proof that she is a liar, a thief, a manipulator, a murderer and we have lots of evidence that points to her most likely having a personality disorder (no proof though in terms of a diagnosis by an expert). Just because Casey is a majorly screwed up person doesn't mean she wasn't abused. IMHO it actually points to the likelihood that she was abused. Sort of a "proof is in the pudding" thing. I believe Casey was born with a seriously bad genetic mix. She was probably always going to have some issues in life. But had she been raised by normal, loving parents who were sensitive to her needs and got her therapy and made the right choices for her - I think it's quite possible Casey could have lived a normal productive life. It wasn't a forgone conclusion that she would become who and what she is when she was born - but being raised in that household sealed the deal.

Also, IMHO the "abuse story" Casey told has a ring of truth to it for many reasons. For instance, why accuse Lee and make him the major perp? Surely Casey knew that accusing GA would be "easier" since there was more evidence that could be stretched to blame Caylee's death on him. It would have worked better for her defense to accuse GA. In fact she never actually accuses GA - she says she "thinks" he might have done the same thing to her. And why make the "abuse story" so "soft"? Not to downplay molestation, it's horrible and there's no excuse for it. But if Casey's motivation was to make a good story for her defense why not make the "abuse story" much worse? If she had claimed for instance that Lee had actually raped her then she could have used that story later as a mitigating circumstance to claim that she never bonded with Caylee because she thought that Caylee might be the product of an incestuous rape. Caylee's very name could have been used as evidence that Casey was "signaling" her fears about Caylee's parentage to the world. (Yes I know Caylee is neither GA's nor LA's child. I'm saying Casey could have claimed she THOUGHT Caylee was.) Why accuse Lee at all? Isn't he the one that Casey felt she was the closest too? That they had a special bond? I think abuse makes for a very confused relationship. IF there was abuse Casey probably sometimes hated LA and sometimes felt like they shared a special "secret". Many abuse victims struggle with the fact that they still love their abusers, especially when they are family members. And IF Casey was ALSO abused (in any form) by her parents then she could have felt a bond with LA that was an "us against them" type of thing there as well. And the sports bra. That's such a true element. Why was Casey wearing a bra to bed? At the age of twelve?? To me this is the "truest" of all the elements of the story. Many victims of sexual abuse sleep in many layers of clothing as a defense mechanism.

Why are most people so quick to let GA & LA off the hook? In the case of GA lets look at what we know about him. He has a history of lying - major lies too. The whole losing a major amount of family money through online gambling... or was it through a bank scheme?? The story changes each time he tells it. And who was doing all those searches for escort services on the A's computer? This is also a guy who has major anger problems. More than one family member tells the story of GA throwing his own father through a plate glass window. We've seen GA on camera many times being physically confrontational & having to be restrained by Cindy. He takes his anger to actual assault by shoving a woman protester, and spraying them with hoses. Despite being aware that the camera is on him & being in a court of law, GA has been verbally combative in depos and in testimony. None of this has anything directly to do with sexual abuse but I would posit that it does paint a picture of someone who has trouble respecting other people physically and isn't in control of himself.

As far as behaviors that do tend to point towards sexual inappropriateness - how about how GA always makes a major point of addressing Casey as gorgeous and beautiful in the video chats? Is this a father with a narcissist for a daughter who has learned to get on her good side by flattering her? Quite possibly. Could it also be a sign of an inappropriate relationship? Maybe. What about GA becoming aggressive towards Jesse when he "caught" them watching a movie, fully clothed and sitting on Casey's bed? According to Jesse GA got into a major snit and threw Jesse out. Seriously!? Casey had already had a child by then. What did GA think he was preventing from happening there? Could this scenario fit with that of a sexual abuser asserting his control and territory? What about GA's "relationship" with River Cruz? We have no proof of anything there but it deserves some thought. It was at the least ill advised and inappropriate considering the circumstances of his life at the time. It again points to a lack of self control, boundaries. Did he seriously think he could get away with that considering the scrutiny he was under?

What about Jesse's story that Casey told him about Lee "trying to have sex with her"? Could this be another Casey lie? Totally. But then again if she ever was going to tell anyone it would have been Jesse. And this was prior to Casey ever needing an abuse excuse for her defense.

Anyhow - sorry for making this post so long! To wrap it up - do I think Casey was abused? I have no idea. We have no absolute proof whatsoever that anything of that nature ever happened. But there are enough factors that cause the "abuse theory" to not be ruled out either. We have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. Abusers can be any color, creed or class. They can be successful men with beautiful wives. They can be the creepy looking guy who gives off a weird vibe or they can be your friendly neighbor who always was so helpful and nice. Could Casey have been abused? It's totally possible.

I agree with you NocturnalLady. Add to what you've written, the extremely odd "c.m.a" speech, delivered by Lee in much more of a boyfriend/girlfriend tone than an uncle/brother tone. I will sit back and watch all this play out. My vote is that the family will deny everything. Victims of incest often become liars, it is routine that they do. They often become promiscuous too. KC exhibits all the classic signs.

 

[Wescott]

I think they wouldn't flat out say we need you to take the fall but I do think that scenario could have been discussed "hypothetically" to see where his loyalties lie. No doubt in my mind that the a's know what is going on.

I dont remember this "too hard". Also, the attorneys for the defendant are not going to tell the parents we need you to take the fall. George could easily go to the State and tell him this was offered to him to do it to save KC.

 

[Wescott]

Respectfully snipped.

I believe you are right on the money. They know exactly what is going on.

In recent weeks we've learned that GA and CA's attorney, Lippman, has met with JB, along with CA. I think there's been a certain amount of orchestration going on with GA, CA, their attorney, and the defense team. I'm sure that GA and CA were well aware that there would be allegations of parental abuse and they're willing participants in that portrayal. Their attorney, Lippman, made a statement denying his client, GA, had anything to do with Caylee's death. I think that's all part of the orchestration too, as a means to make it appear like they're adversaries of the defense team's allegations.

 

[Black Magic Woman]

I think they will all three go willingly under the bus to save ICA. I fully expect it.

I agree. After all, these are some sick, sick puppies.

 

[Frigga]

Great, insightful post. My first reaction was "I totally agree" until I thought of the jail visit video's with her parents and the call home ("Give me Tony's number" etc.) Almost seems to me that they cowtowed (sp?) to her and were walking on eggs, afraid to upset her in any way. I think GA tried to keep her accountable but Cindy wouldn't permit it. Thinking of Casey's behavior when Rob, Tracey and Leonard were there. She was the queen. But no doubt about it, that family could be a poster family for dysfunction. If anyone in that family was a 'scapegoat' (as AF contends ICA was) it was that sweet precious baby Caylee. IMO.

What I wonder about this though is that I'm not sure ICA being in 'charge' was always the way things went down in this household. We know Jessie said that Cindy would verbally demoralize Casey and that there were times Casey wanted to be just like her Mom, and then times she wanted to be nothing like her. The stealing could have been a passive-aggressive way to get back at everyone in her family that harmed her (in ICA's mind- just putting other ideas out there).

If ICA ruled the house why would she be afraid to tell her parents she wouldn't be graduating? Why wouldn't she just maliciously throw it in their face if she was such a maniacal bully? Why would she lie about half the things she lied about- you'd think she would just want to throw it in their faces with a "what are you going to do about it" attitude, especially after she had Caylee, and had ammunition against them.

I think about Baily Dickens and how they said Cindy was the witch of the street. I remember all of CA's interviews where she bullies the interviewer... bullies Tim Miller, bullies a seasoned LE officer, attempts to bully our very own Tricia... afraid of ICA my azz. Richard Grund, and everyone else on earth said Cindy is the boss... not Casey. Rick said they didn't hold ICA accountable but I certainly didn't get the impression from Shirly or Rick that ICA was the bully running the show in that household. Cindy was and is the boss of that show.

George was ready, willing, and able to go after Casey and Cindy wouldn't let him. Why? Because she was so afraid of ICA? Didn't want to upset the frightening sociopath Casey? No way am I buying that... Casey couldn't hold a candle to Cindy's tyrrany (sp), IMOO.

Cindy was walking on egg shells because Casey had her in a 'head lock' for once- Casey held the keys and the keys were to the location of Caylee. The one thing Cindy wanted more than anything (if she did demand for Casey to keep her, and if Cindy didn't want Casey to get mental health help if Casey was going crazy)! (all of this is just supposition on my part- throwing other theories out there) What if those two things (in and of themselves) are what keep Cindy from wanting to admit that Casey killed Caylee, because she (in her mind if those two things are true (she didn't let Casey put Caylee up for adoption and she didn't help her get treatment when she thought she was going crazy- coupled with a few others like sex abuse)... didn't let things unfold the way they could have and she finds herself where she is today.

I wonder if the ONLY reason the Anthony's walked on eggshells during that time is they knew they needed answers from Casey and if Cindy went after her, she would never get them! She needed and wanted and hoped her treatment of ICA would lead to Caylee not that she was afraid of or bullied by ICA.

Just another way to view things, in regards to this behavior- for what it's worth... another theory to throw out there before opening statements tomorrow! Please don't throw things at me!!!

 

[octobermoon]

Casey + Lee = Caylee, I'm just sayin? IMO I think they are going after the brother.

Lee was ruled out as the father.

 

[Frigga]

Lee was ruled out as the father.

Yes he was ruled out as the father of Caylee but that doesn't automatically prove he was never sexually inappropriate with ICA.

Afterall, the inmate has claimed and still claims Lee molested her.

 

[JennaB]

I think Lee will deny the allegations for reasons involving, career, reputation and his relationship with Mallory. Lee's reputation has already been tarnished by Casey's actions and the accusations of him molesting or abusing Casey have been public knowledge for almost three years now. We will never know the truth of whether Lee or George did anything to Casey.

 

[octobermoon]

Yes he was ruled out as the father of Caylee but that doesn't automatically prove he was never sexually inappropriate with ICA.

Afterall, the inmate has claimed and still claims Lee molested her.

You are right that is doesn't disprove any abuse of Casey. At this point it is a he said/she said. Very sad, devistating situation no matter where the truth lies. Either she was or wasn't, but that accusation will hang in the air forever.

 

[JennaB]

What I wonder about this though is that I'm not sure ICA being in 'charge' was always the way things went down in this household. We know Jessie said that Cindy would verbally demoralize Casey and that there were times Casey wanted to be just like her Mom, and then times she wanted to be nothing like her. The stealing could have been a passive-aggressive way to get back at everyone in her family that harmed her (in ICA's mind- just putting other ideas out there).

If ICA ruled the house why would she be afraid to tell her parents she wouldn't be graduating? Why wouldn't she just maliciously throw it in their face if she was such a maniacal bully? Why would she lie about half the things she lied about- you'd think she would just want to throw it in their faces with a "what are you going to do about it" attitude, especially after she had Caylee, and had ammunition against them.

I think about Baily Dickens and how they said Cindy was the witch of the street. I remember all of CA's interviews where she bullies the interviewer... bullies Tim Miller, bullies a seasoned LE officer, attempts to bully our very own Tricia... afraid of ICA my azz. Richard Grund, and everyone else on earth said Cindy is the boss... not Casey. Rick said they didn't hold ICA accountable but I certainly didn't get the impression from Shirly or Rick that ICA was the bully running the show in that household. Cindy was and is the boss of that show.

George was ready, willing, and able to go after Casey and Cindy wouldn't let him. Why? Because she was so afraid of ICA? Didn't want to upset the frightening sociopath Casey? No way am I buying that... Casey couldn't hold a candle to Cindy's tyrrany (sp), IMOO.

Cindy was walking on egg shells because Casey had her in a 'head lock' for once- Casey held the keys and the keys were to the location of Caylee. The one thing Cindy wanted more than anything (if she did demand for Casey to keep her, and if Cindy didn't want Casey to get mental health help if Casey was going crazy)! (all of this is just supposition on my part- throwing other theories out there) What if those two things (in and of themselves) are what keep Cindy from wanting to admit that Casey killed Caylee, because she (in her mind if those two things are true (she didn't let Casey put Caylee up for adoption and she didn't help her get treatment when she thought she was going crazy- coupled with a few others like sex abuse)... didn't let things unfold the way they could have and she finds herself where she is today.

I wonder if the ONLY reason the Anthony's walked on eggshells during that time is they knew they needed answers from Casey and if Cindy went after her, she would never get them! She needed and wanted and hoped her treatment of ICA would lead to Caylee not that she was afraid of or bullied by ICA.

Just another way to view things, in regards to this behavior- for what it's worth... another theory to throw out there before opening statements tomorrow! Please don't throw things at me!!!

I agree I have always gotten the feeling that Cindy was the ruler of the home and Casey was able to have some control in the home but she couldn't top Cindy. The Anthonys have probably always had a shaky marriage. Cindy made George leave law enforcement back in Ohio, because she cried that she didn't want to end up a widow with two kids. George did try to work for awhile at his dad's car dealership which led to fight between George and his dad and he pushed his dad through a window. The history of Anthonys in Florida is also marked with conflicts, such as debt and issues with Casey before Caylee was born.

 

[Tipstaff]

After watching IS today I had a creepy feeling that JB is going to say that ICA saw that Caylee was being sexually abused as she had been and that is what brings us to today.

Just a weird creepy feeling.