Will George, Cindy & Lee Deny the Abuse Allegations?

[Frigga]

I don't think they'll go along with it. The Anthony's lawyer has already released a statement denying it all. I think when George was on the stand and said he'd do anything to get Casey off... I don't think he really meant ANYthing. He was being overly-dramatic George, IMO.

I wish I was as sure as you are. I think anything is possible with this bunch, I think it could go either way. Thankfully, we'll have our answers soon enough, because every time I think I have it figured out... I find out I don't!

 

[concernedmother]

I would not want to be in G&C shoes tomorrow or during this trial.

 

[SarahR]

I don't think George or Lee will go along with it. It's one thing to defend her but to allow her to make you look like a paedophile to the entire nation, is i think something even they would draw a line under, that stigma/accusation would follow them around forever. And i think even they are smart enough to realise the trouble going along with such a thing would mean to their lives.

 

[Silkprint]

If brought up by the defense can't Cindy be asked POINT BLANK
'Did Casey ever tell you that your son or husband sexually abused her'?
Everyone will be waiting for that answer.

 

[NocturnalLady]

I expect that the SA will not bring this issue up. If the DT does then GA, LA and CA will all deny it.

I hope you guys won't start throwing things at me but I have to say it really disturbs me how many people have so instantly and firmly decided that Casey was never abused. Yes, she we have proof that she is a liar, a thief, a manipulator, a murderer and we have lots of evidence that points to her most likely having a personality disorder (no proof though in terms of a diagnosis by an expert). Just because Casey is a majorly screwed up person doesn't mean she wasn't abused. IMHO it actually points to the likelihood that she was abused. Sort of a "proof is in the pudding" thing. I believe Casey was born with a seriously bad genetic mix. She was probably always going to have some issues in life. But had she been raised by normal, loving parents who were sensitive to her needs and got her therapy and made the right choices for her - I think it's quite possible Casey could have lived a normal productive life. It wasn't a forgone conclusion that she would become who and what she is when she was born - but being raised in that household sealed the deal.

Also, IMHO the "abuse story" Casey told has a ring of truth to it for many reasons. For instance, why accuse Lee and make him the major perp? Surely Casey knew that accusing GA would be "easier" since there was more evidence that could be stretched to blame Caylee's death on him. It would have worked better for her defense to accuse GA. In fact she never actually accuses GA - she says she "thinks" he might have done the same thing to her. And why make the "abuse story" so "soft"? Not to downplay molestation, it's horrible and there's no excuse for it. But if Casey's motivation was to make a good story for her defense why not make the "abuse story" much worse? If she had claimed for instance that Lee had actually raped her then she could have used that story later as a mitigating circumstance to claim that she never bonded with Caylee because she thought that Caylee might be the product of an incestuous rape. Caylee's very name could have been used as evidence that Casey was "signaling" her fears about Caylee's parentage to the world. (Yes I know Caylee is neither GA's nor LA's child. I'm saying Casey could have claimed she THOUGHT Caylee was.) Why accuse Lee at all? Isn't he the one that Casey felt she was the closest too? That they had a special bond? I think abuse makes for a very confused relationship. IF there was abuse Casey probably sometimes hated LA and sometimes felt like they shared a special "secret". Many abuse victims struggle with the fact that they still love their abusers, especially when they are family members. And IF Casey was ALSO abused (in any form) by her parents then she could have felt a bond with LA that was an "us against them" type of thing there as well. And the sports bra. That's such a true element. Why was Casey wearing a bra to bed? At the age of twelve?? To me this is the "truest" of all the elements of the story. Many victims of sexual abuse sleep in many layers of clothing as a defense mechanism.

Why are most people so quick to let GA & LA off the hook? In the case of GA lets look at what we know about him. He has a history of lying - major lies too. The whole losing a major amount of family money through online gambling... or was it through a bank scheme?? The story changes each time he tells it. And who was doing all those searches for escort services on the A's computer? This is also a guy who has major anger problems. More than one family member tells the story of GA throwing his own father through a plate glass window. We've seen GA on camera many times being physically confrontational & having to be restrained by Cindy. He takes his anger to actual assault by shoving a woman protester, and spraying them with hoses. Despite being aware that the camera is on him & being in a court of law, GA has been verbally combative in depos and in testimony. None of this has anything directly to do with sexual abuse but I would posit that it does paint a picture of someone who has trouble respecting other people physically and isn't in control of himself.

As far as behaviors that do tend to point towards sexual inappropriateness - how about how GA always makes a major point of addressing Casey as gorgeous and beautiful in the video chats? Is this a father with a narcissist for a daughter who has learned to get on her good side by flattering her? Quite possibly. Could it also be a sign of an inappropriate relationship? Maybe. What about GA becoming aggressive towards Jesse when he "caught" them watching a movie, fully clothed and sitting on Casey's bed? According to Jesse GA got into a major snit and threw Jesse out. Seriously!? Casey had already had a child by then. What did GA think he was preventing from happening there? Could this scenario fit with that of a sexual abuser asserting his control and territory? What about GA's "relationship" with River Cruz? We have no proof of anything there but it deserves some thought. It was at the least ill advised and inappropriate considering the circumstances of his life at the time. It again points to a lack of self control, boundaries. Did he seriously think he could get away with that considering the scrutiny he was under?

What about Jesse's story that Casey told him about Lee "trying to have sex with her"? Could this be another Casey lie? Totally. But then again if she ever was going to tell anyone it would have been Jesse. And this was prior to Casey ever needing an abuse excuse for her defense.

Anyhow - sorry for making this post so long! To wrap it up - do I think Casey was abused? I have no idea. We have no absolute proof whatsoever that anything of that nature ever happened. But there are enough factors that cause the "abuse theory" to not be ruled out either. We have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. Abusers can be any color, creed or class. They can be successful men with beautiful wives. They can be the creepy looking guy who gives off a weird vibe or they can be your friendly neighbor who always was so helpful and nice. Could Casey have been abused? It's totally possible.

 

[mck16]

You would think it would be as simple as that, but we're dealing with the Anthony's here. Cindy completely changed her story and lied on the stand when she said she put the dryer sheets in the case. In her deposition, her sworn testimony, she said she had no idea how the dryer sheets got in the car and didn't know why they would be there.

They will change their stories even more at this trial. I think the first action they will take is to play dumb with the whole ZFG nanny stories they have told for years and years.

You are right. I saw that in one of the hearings. I wonder why they didn't charge her with perjury then as she was lying and they all knew it. Should be interesting. eh?

 

[NocturnalLady]

I kinda saw his "why? why? why?" as a "why bring this out in the open now and hurt our family?" rather than a denial.

True. That letter can easily be read that way.

 

[crucibelle]

I expect that the SA will not bring this issue up. If the DT does then GA, LA and CA will all deny it.

I hope you guys won't start throwing things at me but I have to say it really disturbs me how many people have so instantly and firmly decided that Casey was never abused.

Respectfully snipped for brevity.

I actually DO think she was abused. I'm not so certain she was abused by George, but I do think there is a strong possibility she was abused by Lee. I think many people do not want to consider that she may have been abused, because they may think it is "making excuses" for her. But I see it like this --- there are many people that are abused, even worse than Casey may have been -- but they don't go around murdering their own children. I think it is sad and unfortunate that ICA may have been abused, but it doesn't excuse her murdering her baby, IMO.

 

[Scamperoo]

I kinda saw his "why? why? why?" as a "why bring this out in the open now and hurt our family?" rather than a denial.

Thursday
March 25, 2010


Casey Marie,

Where do I begin???

Well, met with Jose and Cheny Mason on
Wednesday, March 24th.

Jose in Chaney's office delivered me
disturbing news & ask me 2 heartbreaking
questions?
You know what 2 questions he asked
and I said mum.....
Why, Why also destroy Lee...
Why, Why also destroy Mom...
Why, Why also destroy me, your family...
Why, Why also destroy Caylee Marie...

After all I have tried, sacrificed, continued
to love you, My Daughter, Why???
Continually coming to court, continually
wanting to see you, Why???

It seems from the letter that Baez and Mason had been working on this sexual abuse angle for some time. I think the only reason George doesn't come out and say "why the heck are you accusing me of sexual abuse" is because he was told not to mention Casey's defense.

It is clear from the letter that he wants to know why she is doing it, he wants to know why he is being accused, I don't think with George feeling like this, it would be a good Idea to accuse him of anything.

 

[Frigga]

NocturnalLady, I am right there with you in your post. We don't know, none of us do and in the absence of absolute proof, it bothers me that we are unwilling to at least say it is possible.

Just for clarification, it was Cindy who threw the snit-fit about Jessie and Casey being clothed on the bed together watching a movie (with Baby Caylee laying between them, no less). Still, it doesn't discount all of the very viable and valid points you make in your post.

If Casey was molested and she told her mother and her mother did nothing- that would leave an imprint on someone- I can tell you firsthand.

I have no problem with Casey only telling Jessie about the abuse (not her girlfriends etc.), I know people who never tell a soul or have just shared it with one or two people for whatever reason, and I don't even think they know the why's or why nots of with whom and why they choose to reveal (and when they choose to tell).

This hits exceptionally close to home for me because I was not believed, and there is nothing more heartbreaking and soul or spirit shattering IMO... it may have actually been worse then the abuse- don't ask me why, because I don't have a good answer.

I suppose this is why I am affected so much by the easy dismissal of potential sexual abuse of Casey, by others, and why I just can't agree with it.

It may have happened... it may not have happened... I don't know, but I will not say that it was one way or the other. We as a society are on a very slippery slope when we discount (even for a sociopath) sexual abuse allegations.

All I do know is that when it happens, and when you are not believed, you are never the same. I am never the same... I will never be the person I came into this world as. I have worked hard, and I will be alright, but not the same, and I wonder what that little girl Frigga could have been without the abuse... without the denial of her truth by her family? I wonder?

 

[Solace]

NocturnalLady, I am right there with you in your post. We don't know, none of us do and in the absence of absolute proof, it bothers me that we are unwilling to at least say it is possible.

Just for clarification, it was Cindy who threw the snit-fit about Jessie and Casey being clothed on the bed together watching a movie (with Baby Caylee laying between them, no less). Still, it doesn't discount all of the very viable and valid points you make in your post.

If Casey was molested and she told her mother and her mother did nothing- that would leave an imprint on someone- I can tell you firsthand.

I have no problem with Casey only telling Jessie about the abuse (not her girlfriends etc.), I know people who never tell a soul or have just shared it with one or two people for whatever reason, and I don't even think they know the why's or why nots of with whom and why they choose to reveal (and when they choose to tell).

This hits exceptionally close to home for me because I was not believed, and there is nothing more heartbreaking and soul or spirit shattering IMO... it may have actually been worse then the abuse- don't ask me why, because I don't have a good answer.

I suppose this is why I am affected so much by the easy dismissal of potential sexual abuse of Casey, by others, and why I just can't agree with it.

It may have happened... it may not have happened... I don't know, but I will not say that it was one way or the other. We as a society are on a very slippery slope when we discount (even for a sociopath) sexual abuse allegations.

All I do know is that when it happens, and when you are not believed, you are never the same. I am never the same... I will never be the person I came into this world as. I have worked hard, and I will be alright, but not the same, and I wonder what that little girl Frigga could have been without the abuse... without the denial of her truth by her family? I wonder?

Firstly, sorry about all this Frigga.

I really can't reply to this until I see what they are going to say. If they are going to say George was abusing her and she was afraid and he was abusing Caylee, and something went wrong and KC was terrified, I think it will be very hard to have that wash because of KC's personality. She has no problem telling everyone off. None whatsoever. So I think this is going to be hard to believe.

She really talked to her father and mother like they were garbage. Absolute garbage.

 

[NocturnalLady]

Firstly, sorry about all this Frigga.

I really can't reply to this until I see what they are going to say. If they are going to say George was abusing her and she was afraid and he was abusing Caylee, and something went wrong and KC was terrified, I think it will be very hard to have that wash because of KC's personality. She has no problem telling everyone off. None whatsoever. So I think this is going to be hard to believe.

She really talked to her father and mother like they were garbage. Absolute garbage.

BBM - My stepfather was physically abusive to me. My way of fighting back was to "tell him off" every chance I got. I flipped the bird, was rude, laughed in his face, and treated him with exactly the amount of respect he deserved - zero. I wasn't like that before he came along and wasn't like that to others but that was the only way I could hit back at him. He was at least 3 times my size and age so he had all the power. He couldn't shut me up though or make me defer to him. I admit I got enjoyment out of how much it infuriated him that no matter how much he physically abused me he couldn't intimidate me into silence. Although I was obviously afraid of him I was bound and determined to never be cowed by him.

So for me, the way Casey treats her parents means nothing one way or the other. Unless I knew which came first, Casey's behavior or theirs, then I can't count her behavior as evidence either way. I will say though that since she was a child and was raised in that household it's more likely to me that Casey learned her bad behavior from the two examples she had.

 

[Aedrys]

NocturnalLady, I am right there with you in your post. We don't know, none of us do and in the absence of absolute proof, it bothers me that we are unwilling to at least say it is possible.

Just for clarification, it was Cindy who threw the snit-fit about Jessie and Casey being clothed on the bed together watching a movie (with Baby Caylee laying between them, no less). Still, it doesn't discount all of the very viable and valid points you make in your post.

If Casey was molested and she told her mother and her mother did nothing- that would leave an imprint on someone- I can tell you firsthand.

I have no problem with Casey only telling Jessie about the abuse (not her girlfriends etc.), I know people who never tell a soul or have just shared it with one or two people for whatever reason, and I don't even think they know the why's or why nots of with whom and why they choose to reveal (and when they choose to tell).

This hits exceptionally close to home for me because I was not believed, and there is nothing more heartbreaking and soul or spirit shattering IMO... it may have actually been worse then the abuse- don't ask me why, because I don't have a good answer.

I suppose this is why I am affected so much by the easy dismissal of potential sexual abuse of Casey, by others, and why I just can't agree with it.

It may have happened... it may not have happened... I don't know, but I will not say that it was one way or the other. We as a society are on a very slippery slope when we discount (even for a sociopath) sexual abuse allegations.

All I do know is that when it happens, and when you are not believed, you are never the same. I am never the same... I will never be the person I came into this world as. I have worked hard, and I will be alright, but not the same, and I wonder what that little girl Frigga could have been without the abuse... without the denial of her truth by her family? I wonder?

*hugs* to you Frigga. However, you haven't murdered anyone. And you tell the truth straight from your heart. The problem I have with Casey is that all that comes out of her mouth is lies. I have absolutely no way of knowing if she was abused, and because of her grandiose lies in this case that continue to be disproven, I can't just assume she's telling the truth about the abuse, and in fact, because she is such a liar, and so self centered, I've grown very cynical about her and just assume she's lying about it. What I mean is that Casey has never given me any reason to believe her.

That doesn't mean any abuse never happened. I do think there might have been abuse - emotional abuse from her mother and probably her father too. Emotional abuse can be very damaging, maybe even as much as sexual abuse, maybe even more. It just doesn't sound as bad as sexual abuse. I think she turned it into sexual abuse to manipulate people and get sympathy. Honestly, the way she acts and her abuse story in her jail letters - it just doesn't add up to sexual abuse to me. I think she wants people to believe she was sexually abused, but she does not act or speak or in any way resemble people I've actually known who were sexually abused. None of them were pathological liars, and of course, none of them killed anyone. About the only thing she shares with them (the ones I've known) is promiscuity. But being promiscuous doesn't mean sexual abuse caused it. I've also known girls who just like having multiple partners. It's their choice, not something brought about by sexual abuse.

If she was sexually abused, I don't think we'll ever know. She constantly lies, and her family constantly covers up for her. No one in that family is going to admit that it happened if it did. Not even the defense claiming it is enough for me. And it doesn't excuse what Casey did anyway. Many people have overcome abuse to lead productive lives. Casey is not one of those people. I will feel a little sorry for her if she was really abused, though. No one deserves to be abused, not even Casey Anthony. But that won't sway what I think of what she did and how she should pay for it.

 

[NocturnalLady]

NocturnalLady, I am right there with you in your post. We don't know, none of us do and in the absence of absolute proof, it bothers me that we are unwilling to at least say it is possible.

Just for clarification, it was Cindy who threw the snit-fit about Jessie and Casey being clothed on the bed together watching a movie (with Baby Caylee laying between them, no less). Still, it doesn't discount all of the very viable and valid points you make in your post.

If Casey was molested and she told her mother and her mother did nothing- that would leave an imprint on someone- I can tell you firsthand.

I have no problem with Casey only telling Jessie about the abuse (not her girlfriends etc.), I know people who never tell a soul or have just shared it with one or two people for whatever reason, and I don't even think they know the why's or why nots of with whom and why they choose to reveal (and when they choose to tell).

This hits exceptionally close to home for me because I was not believed, and there is nothing more heartbreaking and soul or spirit shattering IMO... it may have actually been worse then the abuse- don't ask me why, because I don't have a good answer.

I suppose this is why I am affected so much by the easy dismissal of potential sexual abuse of Casey, by others, and why I just can't agree with it.

It may have happened... it may not have happened... I don't know, but I will not say that it was one way or the other. We as a society are on a very slippery slope when we discount (even for a sociopath) sexual abuse allegations.

All I do know is that when it happens, and when you are not believed, you are never the same. I am never the same... I will never be the person I came into this world as. I have worked hard, and I will be alright, but not the same, and I wonder what that little girl Frigga could have been without the abuse... without the denial of her truth by her family? I wonder?

Thanks for sharing your story! It's so important to let other people know the impact abuse has on a person. And especially that there is a range of response to abuse so it's important not to think there is a set behavior pattern of an abuse survivor that can be easily identified.

As far as the Jesse incident, I thought CA and GA were both there, having come home from a "date" while they were in their reconciliation phase. I thought I read that they were both angry but it was GA that ordered/threw Jesse out. Could totally be misremembering though.

 

[scotslass]

I don't think they'll go along with it. The Anthony's lawyer has already released a statement denying it all. I think when George was on the stand and said he'd do anything to get Casey off... I don't think he really meant ANYthing. He was being overly-dramatic George, IMO.

ITA. it's hard to take anything the anthony's say and do at their word they always have another spin on everything.

another example of George on the stand :he also said during that "anything" line of questioning by JB he would stay away from court...:waitasec: well to be fair it did take a few days before he put in his motion to be be excused from sequestration so he would not miss the proceedings. At the time that was filed i was wishing i could see JB's reaction :floorlaugh:

 

[USARDOG]

I do not think so... it would be up to the state to decide..

would you press charges against him (or even persue them) if you were the state and you were just now hearing this from his mouth at trial?

(question: why can't the liar smilie be in the first group without having to go advanced LOL)

If I were the state I would most certainly press charges against anyone who admitted to a crime while under oath in court, especially this crime. I'd make it well known that those charges would be forth coming for anyone who admits to child molestation in court under oath, before testimony is given. I would think it a slap in the face of justice to have someone either as a lie to help the defense, or as the truth, state child molestation under oath and not face the full force of the law.

 

[Frigga]

Hugs to you NocturnalLady- he certainly didn't break your spirit and I am so glad for that. It is a pleasure sharing this forum with you- all of you- whether or not we agree or disagree we are all here for Caylee and I am good with that!

I respect each and every one of my fellow WS'ers opinions.

Justice for Caylee... let the chips fall where they may, I just want the truth or as close to it as earthly possible!

 

[nursebeeme]

If I were the state I would most certainly press charges against anyone who admitted to a crime while under oath in court, especially this crime. I'd make it well known that those charges would be forth coming for anyone who admits to child molestation in court under oath, before testimony is given. I would think it a slap in the face of justice to have someone either as a lie to help the defense, or as the truth, state child molestation under oath and not face the full force of the law.

I would if they changed their story.. which based on depos we have that would include... so the question is... are these people going to say something out of the box that hhjp has not reviewed in depos? if so.. it will either be:

1)objection denied (not in depo) if during trial

or

2)in mitigation (which they seem to be planning on and good luck with that as well after seeing all the previous Anthony evidence.. lies...etc)

moo like a cow.. quack like a duck.. bahhh... etc

 

[thumbtack]

How about:

CA, GA & LA all deny abuse to ICA, but say that due to ICA's unusual brain development (&, thus, living in a fantasy world, paranoia, persecution, etc. etc.), she could have actually made herself believe that the abuse was real.

That gets everyone off the hook. ( I, personally, do not believe this).

 

[Leila]

Or will they go along with the Defense's claim that Casey was abused by them all. George did say he would do whatever it takes to get his daughter cleared.

*Please edit my Thread Title*

I think GA, CA, and LA will go along with the defense claim of abuse......up to a point. I think both GA and LA will deny the allegations of sexual molestation.

George DID say he would do anything for his daughter. JB asked him, "even if you got a subpoena and I asked you to not come to court?" George said he would do just that, not come to court. It was as if George was saying he'd break the law to help his daughter.

In recent weeks we've learned that GA and CA's attorney, Lippman, has met with JB, along with CA. I think there's been a certain amount of orchestration going on with GA, CA, their attorney, and the defense team. I'm sure that GA and CA were well aware that there would be allegations of parental abuse and they're willing participants in that portrayal. Their attorney, Lippman, made a statement denying his client, GA, had anything to do with Caylee's death. I think that's all part of the orchestration too, as a means to make it appear like they're adversaries of the defense team's allegations.