GUILTY Yoselyn Ortega charged with 2 counts ea-1st and 2nd Degree Murder of Krim Children

[YESorNO]

Shrink testifies that nanny accused of killing 2 children was in dissociative, psychotic state

"That was the opinion offered by a defense expert Thursday in the trial of an Upper West Side nanny accused of slaughtering two kids in her care. The shrink, testifying for Yoselyn Ortega's defense team, which is mounting an insanity defense, said the babysitter was in a "dissociative state" ..."

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...kids-psychotic-state-shrink-article-1.3903738
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[YESorNO]

Nanny accused of killing 2 kids was in psychotic state: shrink


"She knew not what she did.

That was the opinion offered by a defense expert Thursday in the trial of an Upper West Side nanny accused of slaughtering two kids in her care.

The shrink, testifying for Yoselyn Ortega's defense team, which is mounting an insanity defense, said the babysitter was in a "dissociative state" when she repeatedly stabbed and slashed Lulu and Leo Krim, 6 and 2, in their family's W. 75th St. apartment on Oct. 25, 2012.

"She wasn't in her normal conscious state where she could control her behavior or where she could form an intent to act to consciously act," Karen Rosenbaum testified on direct-examination by defense lawyer Valerie Van Leer-Greenberg....

Rosenbaum said she didn't believe Ortega was faking her symptoms or lying about the voices overtaking her mind.

The voices got "stronger" and shortly before the attack they were "telling her to kill herself and to kill the children," she recalled.

Rosenbaum argued there was no other explanation besides insanity....

Prosecutors are expected to grill Rosenbaum on her findings, which are based largely on Ortega's self-reporting of her symptoms over 13 interviews"

https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...-kids-was-in-psychotic-state-shrink/23398983/
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[YESorNO]

No tweets from the courthouse today...:sigh:

 

[YESorNO]

Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
7h7 hours ago
Prosecutor grills psychiatrist about #YoselynOrtega's ability to understand nature of her actions when she pulled two large knives from a butcher block. Psychiatrist responds she was in a dissociative state at the time. #nannytrial


Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
6h6 hours ago
Doctor says #YoselynOrtega was unaware of what she was doing when she killed Lulu and Leo in 2012. #nannytrial


Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
6h6 hours ago
Prosecutor: You keep talking about the defendant loving the children? So she couldn't rationally kill the children?
Doctor says that was part of how she diagnosed #YoselynOrtega


Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
6h6 hours ago
Prosecutor shouts, "so she couldn’t kill them cause she loved them?"
Doctor: "You don’t need to yell we’re both just doing our jobs
(Judge: "Don’t instruct the DA just answer question."
DA: "Sorry I get excited.")
#nannytrial


Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
6h6 hours ago
Doctor in response to a question about domestic violence: "This is not a case of domestic violence Ms. Ortega never laid a hand on the children. She was psychotic." #nannytrial



Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
6h6 hours ago
When pressed about why she did not interview the doorman about #YoselynOrtega as part of her evaluation, Dr. Rosenbaum said: "There was no window into her mind that he could help me with I was concerned with her state of mind and psychosis. #nannytrial



Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
6h6 hours ago
She continued, "If she appeared psychotic to Mr. brown (doorman) she would have appeared psychotic to Mrs. Krim." #nannytrial


Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
6h6 hours ago
Juror nods off again. #nannytrial


Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
5h5 hours ago
After tense exchange btwn psychiatrist and asst. district attorney Stuart Silberg, Dr. Rosenbaum asks for a break. #nannytrial
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[YESorNO]

Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
5h5 hours ago
And we're back. #nannytrial


Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
5h5 hours ago
Prosecutor takes lighter, calmer tone with Dr. Rosenbaum after defense attorney Valerie Van Leer-Greenberg says he appeared argumentative and badgered the witness. #nannytrial


Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
5h5 hours ago
Prosecutors asks Dr. Rosenbaum why she did not speak with her previous employers and employees about her state of mind. She said she didn't see value in doing so since no isses at those jobs. #nannytrial



Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
3h3 hours ago
Cross-examination continues. #nannytrial


Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
2h2 hours ago
Prosecutor grills Dr. Rosenbaum because she included in her report that #YoselynOrtega saw Dr. Caffrey 3 days before the murders for about 15 mins. Caffrey told jury for 45. Rosenbaum credited Ortega and not Caffrey #nannytrial


Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
2h2 hours ago
Prosecutor then asks repeatedly why she would side with Ortega's timeframe if she is believed to be "an unreliable reporter" when it comes to her symptoms and history. #nannytrial


Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
2h2 hours ago
Juror appears to be nodding in agreement with some of prosecutor's questions during cross-examination of Dr. Rosenbaum #nannytrial


Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
2h2 hours ago
Prosecutor: "Why wouldn’t you rely on what Dr. Caffrey said by talking to him?"
Dr. Rosenbaum: For the same reason I didn’t go to NY hospital and talk to everyone doctor who laid eyes on her."
Cross-examination gets tense. #nannytrial


Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
1h1 hour ago
After more tense exchanges over the psychiatrist's findings, prosecutor says "We need to take a break." After jurors leave the courtroom, judge then turned to Dr. Rosenbaum and told her she does not get to determine which questions are fair & which she will not answer #nannytrial
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[YESorNO]

Psychiatrist, DA battle during testimony in nanny murder trial

"A defense expert testifying on behalf of a nanny on trial for killing two kids in her care found herself on the defensive on Monday. Psychiatrist Karen Rosenbaum defended her finding that Yoselyn Ortega was “psychotic” and “dissociative” when she killed little Lulu and Leo Krim, 6 and 2,...

Silberg also poked holes in the crux of the defense claim — pointing to Ortega's alleged history of hearing similar commands to kill herself and the children and not acting on them.

He asked Rosenbaum if it was only on the day she killed the Krim kids that she decided to listen after previously ignoring the ominous voices, suggesting she could form the intent to kill.

"When you said she lost control over herself and she gave in, what did you mean by that? What did she give into?" Silberg pushed.

She "gave into the hallucinations of the voices commanding her to kill in the dissociative state of the delusion of the devil possessing her ... She didn't give in, in rational state of mind," Rosenbaum said.

Cross-examination began last week and will continue again on Tuesday."

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...estimony-nanny-murder-trial-article-1.3911062

(Karen Rosenbaum is pictured walking from the courtroom with defense attorneys on a break from testifying in Manhattan Criminal in the trial of Yoselyn Ortega on March 26. [ALEC TABAK/FOR NEW YORK DAILY NEWS])
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[YESorNO]

Nanny Who Killed 2 Tots Says “God Will Save Her” Since It Was Her First Crime

"The nanny on trial for stabbing to death two Upper West side children in her care gave an incredibly wild reason to jurors behind her confidence that she will be acquitted as “God is going to save her “because she’s never killed anyone before the 2012 gruesome slayings.

A forensic psychiatrist identified as Dr. Karen Rosenabum testified on cross-examination to say that the accused Yoselyn Ortega “is a religious person and knows that killing is wrong and would never want to kill anybody.”

Rosenbaum added before the Manhattan Supreme Court that: “It’s my opinion that she has no memory, that she loves the children, that she didn’t want to hurt anyone.”..."

https://thegoldwater.com/news/22196...od-Will-Save-Her-Since-It-Was-Her-First-Crime
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[YESorNO]

No tweets from the courthouse today.

 

[YESorNO]

Nanny who claims SATAN told her to stab two children to death got her affairs in order before the killings but they were not premeditated because she often acts 'psychotic', psychiatrist says

"...Days before she stabbed two small children in her care to death, killer nanny Yoselyn Ortega was getting her affairs in order.

She put her precious heirlooms in bags, gave her passport, health insurance and driver's license to her sister, and sent her son to stay with relatives.

Prosecutors in her murder trial argue this showed premeditation that destroys her insanity defense for the grisly murders of Lulu, six, and Leo Krim, two.

However, her psychiatrist Karen Rosenbaum, giving testimony for the defense, said the 55-year-old was prone to such actions and they didn't show early intent to kill.

'I can see how you would reach that conclusion with somebody who was intent to kill, but this defendant does things like that even when she's not psychotic,' she told the court, according to the New York Daily News.

Dr Rosenbaum was on the stand for a third day as District Attorney Stuart Silberg tried to cast doubt on her insanity diagnosis...

Her psychiatrist's testimony is expected to continue on Thursday...."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-murder-Krim-children-psychiatrist-says.html
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[MsFacetious]

The "she loved them so she couldn't kill them" is absurd.
Love is often a huge motivator when someone is murdered.

 

[YESorNO]

Nannt Trial Week 6:

‘Neither Family Will Be the Same’ At the nanny trial, the court meets the people who loved a killer.

"Celia Ortega was working as a nanny, shepherding a preschooler to ballet class, when she approached Marina Krim. Marina’s two daughters attended ballet and preschool with the girl Celia cared for, and the mother was visibly pregnant with a third child. Celia asked whether Marina needed a nanny. Then she recommended her sister for the job.

That’s how Marina Krim recalls her first interaction with the family of Yoselyn Ortega, the nanny who stabbed to death Krim’s 6-year-old daughter Lucia and 2-year-old son Leo — the boy she had been pregnant with when she met Celia. Yoselyn Ortega is pleading not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect for the 2012 murders. The prosecution seeks a life sentence in prison for Ortega; the defense calls for treatment in a secure psychiatric ward. To build the case for insanity, Ortega’s lawyers are calling on an extended network of family and friends. And in the process, they’re laying bare the inner workings of a long family struggle. After years of supporting (and occasionally lying for) Yoselyn Ortega, her family is now testifying on her behalf — in some cases, even though they don’t want to. “Neither family will be the same,” defense lawyer Valerie Van Leer-Greenberg said in her opening statement...."

https://www.thecut.com/2018/04/nanny-trial-week-6-yoselyn-ortegas-family-and-biography.html

(Yoselyn Ortega, seated, at her trial.)
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[YESorNO]

There were no tweets yesterday...

Thought this was an interesting article on the insanity defense:


In 1859, a Murderous Congressman Pioneered the Insanity Defense
"After gunning down his wife's lover in broad daylight, Daniel Sickles tried to escape the gallows by claiming he was out of his mind.

Temporary insanity” is a relatively modern invention. The question of insanity in criminal cases became part of American law in the course of two 19th-century murder trials, each involving a hotheaded protagonist, a lover’s tiff, and a killing in broad daylight. Together, these trials set the tone for temporary insanity jurisprudence and showed that in American law and society, insanity is a gendered condition...

Today the insanity defense won’t get a defendant released but committed, and despite the public perception that insanity is an easy escape valve for those accused of crimes, it only succeeds in less than one percent of cases. After a claim of insanity acquitted John Hinckley of his 1981 attempt to assassinate Ronald Reagan, Congress passed the Insanity Defense Reform Act in an effort to limit the circumstances in which the defense might be raised. Even so, after the “irresistible impulse” test was famously used to acquit Lorena Bobbitt of separating her husband from his penis in 1994, a study found that when the insanity defense is successful, it is more often so for women than men – perhaps because, as Laura Fair experienced, the perception of women’s inherent mental weakness and emotional fragility persists."

http://narrative.ly/in-1859-a-murde...ly Campaign Monitor Emails&utm_term=Read More
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[YESorNO]

Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
1h1 hour ago
After several days of hearing from psychiatrists about #YoselynOrtega's state of mind on the day she murdered two children in 2012 the defense rests its case. #nannytrial

 

[Emi]

Closing I guess will be on Monday

 

[wyome]

The "she loved them so she couldn't kill them" is absurd.
Love is often a huge motivator when someone is murdered.

Doctors like Karen Rosenbaum give psychiatrists a bad rep. No wonder many people consider this specialty a bunch of quacks...you get this one right here saying some of the most ridiculous and stupid things.

 

[YESorNO]

Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
2h2 hours ago
Back in Manhattan Criminal Court today where the prosecution is presenting its rebuttal in the #nannytrial. ICYMI here's the latest: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/...latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront … More to come.


Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
2h2 hours ago
#YoselynOrtega has pleaded not responsible by reason of mental disease or defect. To prevail, she must prove that her mental illness prevented her from understanding the consequences of her actions or knowing they were wrong:… #nannytrial


Jan Ransom@Jan_Ransom
2h2 hours ago
On the stand now Dr. Ali Khadivi, a forensic psychologist testifying on behalf of the prosecution said: "Ms. Ortega did not lack the capacity. She had a capacity to appreciate the consequence and wrongfulness of her actions. And she had the capacity to form intent." #nannytrial
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[YESorNO]

Manhattan nanny told prosecution expert the devil wasn't involved in killing of two kids

"She may have damned herself.

The nanny on trial for slaughtering two kids in her care undermined her own insanity defense in 2016 when she repeatedly admitted to a prosecution expert that commands from the devil had nothing to do with it.

On Monday, the jury in Yoselyn Ortega’s trial saw video of her unequivocal denials to hearing voice instructions from Satan — which her defense team now argues were behind the murderous knife attack in which she killed Lulu and Leo Krim, 6 and 2, on Oct. 25, 2012.

“Do you remember [THE DEVIL] at all talking to you? ... Taking control of your body? … Had you ever thought the devil was doing this to you?” asked psychologist Ali Khadvi.

“No,” Ortega, who sounded coherent, responded firmly....

Khadivi — who interviewed Ortega for 9 1/2 hours — testified that there was a strong likelihood she faked psychotic symptoms after her arrest.

Defense doctors said they relied heavily on Ortega’s own reports of having seen and heard commands from the devil and other voices to conclude that she was too mentally ill to be held accountable for the children’s murders...."

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...expert-devil-didn-kill-kids-article-1.3924282
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[YESorNO]

No tweets from the courthouse today- just this article:

Manhattan DA pays surprise visit at ‘killer nanny’ trial

"A surprise bystander showed up to watch the trial of accused killer nanny Yoselyn Ortega on Tuesday — Manhattan District Attorney Cy Vance.

Vance — whose prosecutors are trying Ortega in the gruesome 2012 slayings of 2-year-old Leo Krim and his 6-year-old sister, Lulu — told reporters during a break that he was there just to “see how our system is doing.

“I have been to the openings and not the expert testimonies, had some time, and I’m interested on how this one is going,” Vance said.

“It’s been a very interesting morning,’’ he said after prosecution witness Dr. Ali Khadiv, who interviewed Ortega after the carnage, continued his second day on the stand.

Khadiv has countered the defense’s claims that Ortega was too crazy to know what she was doing and “heard voices’’ directing her to fatally knife the little children who were in her care.

Asked how he thought the case was proceeding, the DA said, “I just think it would be unwise’’ to comment since it is continuing....

Earlier in the morning, Khadivi testified that Ortega “had the capacity to form an intent” when she killed the Krim children in the bathroom.

“While she is in the bathroom she forms other intentions — by trying to save her life by putting cloth on top of her wound,’’ he noted.

Ortega allegedly told cops after the heinous slayings that she was mad at their mother, Marina Krim, because her boss told her she would have to help out more around the house. Ortega also perceived other slights.

“She felt insulted, so humiliated. ‘Any nanny has a MetroCard, I didn’t have a MetroCard,’ ” Ortega griped to Khadivi, according to his testimony."

https://nypost.com/2018/04/10/manhattan-da-pays-surprise-visit-at-killer-nanny-trial/
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[HMSHood]

That is not Ortega's handwriting. It is the handwriting of the Spanish-speaking detective who
interviewed her at her hospital bedside. Ortega pointed to letters on a board and the detective
wrote it down.

I did not realize that.

 

[HMSHood]

I do not think Yoselyn Ortega is insane. She may bouts of psychosis, but ultimately she is an injustice collector.

I am surprise that this case has not gotten as much attention as other cases like Casey Anthony or Jodi Arias.