You, the jury

HER FATE IS IN YOUR HANDS

  • GUILTY, BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT

    Votes: 48 54.5%
  • NOT GUILTY

    Votes: 40 45.5%

  • Total voters
    88
So he tried the Glock 19 9mm and it didn't fit?

I'm pretty sure he didn't try the Glock 19 at all. He had no reason.

LOL, you watch too many cartoons. I'm not sure that and IDI would be worried about damaging the gun even if it were possible from crashing the butt down on a little girls skull, and it would only discharge (if that were ever to happen at all) if it were loaded with the safety off. Nah, probably not even then.

Cartoons have nothing to do with it. Some guns are made differently than others. Some are safer than others. Some are sturdier than others. Moreover, they would be worried about damaging it. If a parent were to appear, as HOTYH says, they would need that gun to fight. A gun whose barrel has been knocked out of alignment or whose grip has been cracked can be a serious liability.
 
fmq6f7.jpg

In order to produce a separate fragment, penetration is needed. All you need to do is consider the flashlight at depth of the thickness of the skull, and thats the size of the fragment. This flashlight can't produce a separate rectangular fragment 1/2" x 1 1/2" in dimension.

You'll be needing an object of that approximate cross-section.
 
I'm pretty sure he didn't try the Glock 19 at all. He had no reason.



Cartoons have nothing to do with it. Some guns are made differently than others. Some are safer than others. Some are sturdier than others. Moreover, they would be worried about damaging it. If a parent were to appear, as HOTYH says, they would need that gun to fight. A gun whose barrel has been knocked out of alignment or whose grip has been cracked can be a serious liability.

I don't think its going to damage the gun. If the gun has problems then it could go off. If the gun is OK then it wouldn't go off. Dropping a gun to the ground that has a bullet in the chamber is not funny.

Basically, an item with 1/2" x 1 1/2" cross section is what you need. I know of no gun except maybe a really small one.
 
I don't think its going to damage the gun. If the gun has problems then it could go off. If the gun is OK then it wouldn't go off. Dropping a gun to the ground that has a bullet in the chamber is not funny.

Basically, an item with 1/2" x 1 1/2" cross section is what you need. I know of no gun except maybe a really small one, and that probably wouldn't have the mass to produce the fragment.

Guns are made of pretty tough polymer stuff, designed to be used in combat situations. Modern guns have lots of safety features to prevent such accidents (although they still happen), I doubt this perp wasn't a 'safety nut'.

What I'm thinking of is (picture this in your mind please) the perp has the gun in his hand (his left hand I think). JBR is on her back on the floor. The perp is on her right side with the muzzle of the gun at her throat pressing her back/down. The right hand is doing the sexual assault. She struggles, protests (and maybe screams), he brings the gun back, (still held as if he were about to fire it) in an arc on the right side of her head. It would strike her head on the edge (not flat, due to the arc and angle descent) of the magazine which protrudes a little from the base of the hand grip.

These have the standard magazine, but magazines that hold more bullets and are longer, and protrude further, can also be purchased. [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock_pistol[/ame]
 
Guns are made of pretty tough polymer stuff, designed to be used in combat situations. Modern guns have lots of safety features to prevent such accidents (although they still happen), I doubt this perp wasn't a 'safety nut'.

What I'm thinking of is (picture this in your mind please) the perp has the gun in his hand (his left hand I think). JBR is on her back on the floor. The perp is on her right side with the muzzle of the gun at her throat pressing her back/down. The right hand is doing the sexual assault. She struggles, protests (and maybe screams), he brings the gun back, (still held as if he were about to fire it) in an arc on the right side of her head. It would strike her head on the edge (not flat, due to the arc and angle descent) of the magazine which protrudes a little from the base of the hand grip.

These have the standard magazine, but magazines that hold more bullets and are longer, and protrude further, can also be purchased. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock_pistol

The gun in your example is going to leave a huge fragment if it left any fragment. Do you see what I mean? Please pardon my example, but if you hit drywall with a large hammer, you're hole isn't going to be a small hole. Its going to be the same size as your hammer. There's no difference here. In fact, the challenge to produce this fragment is greater because bone is way more resistant than drywall. An object of that cross-section moving at high speed, thats what is needed.

As to your scenario, my opinion is that a six year old girl isn't going to respond to a gun like an adult would, and the 2nd ligature with three loops suggests that JBR was probably tied up and couldn't move.
 
Don't get me wrong, probably is a gun magazine injury. I'm pretty convinced of that now because of the distinct rectangular shape with perpendicular sides. Its probably going to fit some magazine somewhere.

Smaller Uzi maybe?
 
In order to produce a separate fragment, penetration is needed. All you need to do is consider the flashlight at depth of the thickness of the skull, and thats the size of the fragment. This flashlight can't produce a separate rectangular fragment 1/2" x 1 1/2" in dimension.

You'll be needing an object of that approximate cross-section.

Hey Hotyh,

Looks like it could.
Zoom in.
 
Don't get me wrong, probably is a gun magazine injury. I'm pretty convinced of that now because of the distinct rectangular shape with perpendicular sides. Its probably going to fit some magazine somewhere.

Smaller Uzi maybe?

Hey, this is a fun video (not!), but it does show the 33 round magazine sticking out the bottom.

http://www.youtube.com./watch?v=bx1gnQ_H8hc&feature=related

Regarding:
As to your scenario, my opinion is that a six year old girl isn't going to respond to a gun like an adult would, and the 2nd ligature with three loops suggests that JBR was probably tied up and couldn't move.

Yep, gotta agree. That's probably why she got clobbered! A 6yo isn't going to realise that a gun at her neck is as serious as an adult would in that position and when she was hurt, she most likely struggled and screamed.
 
Yosemite Sam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol-whipping

Pistol whipping is the act of using a handgun as a blunt weapon, wielding it as if it were a club or blackjack.[1]. "Pistol-whipping" and "to pistol-whip" were reported as "new words" of American speech in 1955, with cited usages from 1940s.[2] However both the term and the practice trace back to the Wild West of the 1800s.
Paul Wellman notes that a Westerner clubbing an opponent with the butt of a gun held by its barrel, seen in some westerns, has its problems. There are several reasons why it would be wrong. One of which is that the gun would be rendered useless for its primary purpose which is to fire a projectile out of the barrel. There is also the danger of an unintentional discharge which could fatally wound the "clubber". Plus there would also be a loss of precious time to switch from holding the barrel to holding the grip in the standard shooting way.
Instead, pistol whipping (also known as buffaloing) was done with the long and heavy barrel of the gun held in an ordinary manner.[3][4] Thus removing the above mentioned issues involved with holding the gun by the barrel.
Pistol whipping may leave unusual lacerations on the body of the injured due to various protruding details of the pistol.[5] Semicircular or triangular lacerations on the skin may be produced by the butt of a pistol. The magazine well and the base of the magazine produce rectangular lacerations on the skin.[6] These lacerations can vary in depth and severity, but if "whipped", fractures are common.
Pistol-whipping should not be confused with buttstroking, a close combat military discipline.
Pistol-whipping was most popularized by Jesse James ,a gangster of the deep west, in the mid-1800s.[citation needed]
 
Perhaps, Hotyh.

http://crimeshots.com/CrimeScene1.html

Zoom in,
divet, four sided, 2 sides sloped, top of fracture smooth. bottom of fracture jagged edge, looks like two notches.

That shape cannot be produced with the cylindrical/spherical surfaces of the flashlight.

The flashlight would produce a D shape because the flashlight looks like D=====. See what I mean? Instead it looks like [].

The flashlight requires a lot more force to penetrate and create a fragment and the resulting fragment wouldn't look like that. While the frontside cylindrical shape might penetrate JBR's skull, the larger surface area of the backside spherical shape require more force to penetrate.

Its worth noting that none of us have seen the fragment from the demo. Was it roughly rectangular, 1 3/4" x 1/2"?
 
Right idea but the length to width ratio looks wrong.

I picked the Glock 19 originally, cause the muzzle resembled the shape on the neck. I'm sure there might be other models or makes that would fit with the bruise and the head bash pretty closely.
 

Yeah JMK.What makes your theory better than his?Do you know more about crimes and kids than he does?Only because he's a dangerous nut doesn't mean he's stupid or doesn't have a pertinent theory.
 
Yeah JMK.What makes your theory better than his?Do you know more about crimes and kids than he does?Only because he's a dangerous nut doesn't mean he's stupid or doesn't have a pertinent theory.

Again Madeline, you've raised a very interesting point.

Unless there's a lot that's being kept from the public (not surprised if there was), the sexual assault seems a bit 'timid' to me. Hardly the kind of thing that JMK and his ilk would go to all this trouble for. I'm not going to even pretend to understand paedophiles or what motivates them, but it seems to me that as far as we know there was only a 'small amount' of sexual abuse by comparison to the 'overkill' of the head bash and strangulation.

There was a suggestion in one of the Affitdavits that at autopsy, there was semen discovered on JBR under the black light, but this was, in the same document, discounted as not being found by the CID. So was there or wasn't there semen? If not, why was she wiped down? If there was, why is this being kept from public knowledge?

There was a small amount of blood discovered. Was there more extensive bleeding that was wiped away? Unlikely, or it would have been drops on the floor at least.

If there was no semen and only a few drops of blood, what was the motivation for the killing? Just a little digital penetration??

Let's just concentrate on the actual killing for a moment and forget the motivation (cause it brings too much conflict here).

Take a child from her bed (willingly?)
Feed her pineapple (must be willing)
Bruise to her neck (holding her down somehow)
Sexual assault but just digital penetration (as far as we know)
Bash to the head (she screamed/struggled)
Strangle with a cord (so she couldn't tell)
Wipe her down and re-dress (cover up? ashamed?)

Cords to the wrists )
Tape to the mouth ) Why? Surely he knew she was already dead?

Put her in the winecellar. (Wanting her to be found, but not straight away)

I'm suggeting this may have been an "opportunity" killing, rather than a planned rape/murder. I'm also going to suggest that the killer was not a paedophile (or at least this was not what he would have been described as prior to this killing), a novice perhaps is a better description. Perhaps the intended crime was the 'abduction' for ransom, just as the RN says. But, the killer was unstable and the stress associated with entering the house, waiting for the family to return, waiting for them to fall asleep, successfully luring the child to the basement, all caused such a overwhelming 'high' and feeling of unreality, that the hidden paedophile 'fantasy' surfaced and was actually performed. When she screamed/struggled the head bash was done without thinking, but reality hit and the fear of discovery led to the subsequent strangulation.

Egor make mistake?? Did she know her killer? If not why kill her?

Where is Mastermind while Egor make mistake? What did Mastermind do when he/she find out about Egor's mistake?

Ok, as if this wasn't confusing enough, then there's the RN? Did Mastermind write and place the RN then come back and find JBR dead and got the hell out of there with Egor in tow, forgetting to pick up the RN?

I can't think of any other scenario (for the killing) that even remotely fits..........
 
How did JB's blood end up on the Barbie nightgown?If it was put next to the body after she died as a tender gesture then how did her blood end up on it.
 
Assuming IDI:


If you reduce the crime to its most fundamental and difficult steps, then you could see not only that it was premeditated but how it was planned.
  1. JBR was moved from her bedroom to the basement without disturbing the parents.
  2. A long and unusual ransom note was written using pen and paper from the house, probably while the R's were at the Whites. It was placed on the REAR stairs sometime during the night.
  3. JBR was strangled to death by cord that was not sourced to the house. Probably the intruder brought the cord with them.
  4. Probably nighttime and stealth tactics were used because the ransom note has vocabulary that only fits a political-military background, and not religion or southern female journalism as RDI has repeatedly claimed over and over again.
There's no question it was premeditated. Not only that, it was elaborate. The perp(s) came to the house undetected hours ahead of time bringing only cord & tape, they lay in wait and write long notes, and move JBR silently from her bedroom to the basement. They leave without disturbing anyone.
 
Yeah JMK.

Never heard of him.

What makes your theory better than his?

Because I'm not an obvious fraud trying to put myself IN IT, that's why.

And for the record, Keith Ablow believes that his theory is the same as mine.

Do you know more about crimes and kids than he does? Only because he's a dangerous nut doesn't mean he's stupid or doesn't have a pertinent theory.

Oy. We're really scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
 
Unless there's a lot that's being kept from the public (not surprised if there was), the sexual assault seems a bit 'timid' to me. Hardly the kind of thing that JMK and his ilk would go to all this trouble for.

:clap:

I'm not going to even pretend to understand paedophiles or what motivates them, but it seems to me that as far as we know there was only a 'small amount' of sexual abuse by comparison to the 'overkill' of the head bash and strangulation.

:clap:

There was a suggestion in one of the Affitdavits that at autopsy, there was semen discovered on JBR under the black light, but this was, in the same document, discounted as not being found by the CID. So was there or wasn't there semen?

Wasn't. It was later determined to be blood residue.

If not, why was she wiped down?

Why, indeed.

If there was no semen and only a few drops of blood, what was the motivation for the killing? Just a little digital penetration??

Interesting question.
 

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