You, the jury

[Holdontoyourhat]

I'll take that as a compliment!

Considering the most astronomically remote RDI scenarios, at the exclusion of any and all IDI scenarios?

That's called bias, as all intruder scenarios can't be factually ruled out. If any scenarios can be legitimately ruled out, its the RDI scenarios!

 

[WHITEFANG]

Considering the most astronomically remote RDI scenarios, at the exclusion of any and all IDI scenarios?

That's called bias, as all intruder scenarios can't be factually ruled out. If any scenarios can be legitimately ruled out, its the RDI scenarios!

HOTYH,
Have you been seeing MF? A little romance going on between you two? Cause whatever is going on you two have blasted off to another plane of consciousness. Thank goodness. You have effectively silenced the imaginings of the GO (Great One).

 

[BBB167893]

Was that excruciating for you to say?

Not in the least.

 

[BBB167893]

There is no source here. What was the actual quote that led you to believe there's more DNA than fiber?

It was something he said on Larry King. He said that if someone bleeds on a sidewalk, there's no way to know whether or not someone spit on that same spot ten minutes earlier.

A source is not merely a name; it needs to be verifiable. If its an interview then what were the words? If it was an article then what was the publication? See what I mean? But I think you already know what a source is/isn't.

That's right. I do know. Tell you what. Let's have a look at these articles:

http://dna-trace-analysis.suite101.com/article.cfm/forensic_fiber_analysis

Unfortunately fiber transfer doesn’t always take place. Certain types of fabric do not shed well (donor garments), and some fabrics do not hold fibers well (recipient garments).

Important consierations in fiber transfer are:

the construction and fiber composition of the fabric
the duration and force of contact
the condition of the garment with regard to damage

Now, let's contrast that with this:

http://forensicscience.suite101.com/article.cfm/what_is_low_copy_number_dna

Because of the small amount of starting DNA, many more cycles of replication are necessary and contaminants will be also be replicated, creating a greater risk of inaccurate results.

A correct fingerprint identification on a fixed object, may establish that you were at a particular point, but DNA can be transferred from one person to another and from them to somewhere else the original person may never have been.

Let's apply some common sense. Not all fiber sources are alike. But DNA is universal. All people have it. And if it were NOT to easy to transfer everywhere, would we have things like LCN and Touch DNA processes? Think about all the things on our bodies that have DNA that can be transferred: skin, hair, nail clippings, saliva, even blood and more intimate fluids. This is why the lady author that I keep mentioning points out how careful you have to be with DNA:

"The world is fairly bristling with human DNA. DNA can only exclude suspects in cases of rape, and even then if the victim was not sexually active and there was only one rapist. In virtually all other cases, DNA can include suspects; it cannot exclude them."

As for fibers, well, why don't you ask Wayne Williams and David Westerfield about that?

Is that better?

I'll not ask you for your source again.

Shouldn't be any need. I just gave you some.

I figure you're saying what you want to say, stating some things as fact, with near impunity as this is part of your style. I'd hate to impinge on you style with something so tedious and insulting as asking for a source.

HOTYH, seeing how we're such close friends, I'll ignore that.

 

[BBB167893]

Considering the most astronomically remote RDI scenarios, at the exclusion of any and all IDI scenarios?

That's called bias, as all intruder scenarios can't be factually ruled out.

Now, just a minute, HOTYH. YOU said that.

If any scenarios can be legitimately ruled out, its the RDI scenarios!

Not. On. Your. Life.

 

[BBB167893]

You have effectively silenced the imaginings of the GO (Great One).

The Great One...I like that!

And as for being "silenced," trust me: I have not yet BEGUN to fight!

 

[WHITEFANG]

The Great One...I like that!

And as for being "silenced," trust me: I have not yet BEGUN to fight!

Figured, (Weren't talking about you, however.)

You ain't kiddin.

So far your evidence totals 0. Let us know when you plan to fight so we'll be prepared for the onslaught.

 

[MurriFlower]

The Great One...I like that![/B]

More like The Giant Ego!!

And as for being "silenced," trust me: I have not yet BEGUN to fight!

Put your oversized underpants on over your trousers, wrap a towel around your shoulders and leap from a tall building, yelling, "I will not be silenced. I have not yet BEGUN to fight. Trust meeeeeeeeeeee"

 

[WHITEFANG]

Fang, you are out of the will! I mean it this time!

Thank goodness. I wouldn't want anyone to think I endorse the nonsense you spew incessantly.

The pain, the pain.

 

[madeleine]

Me the jury thinks that LE should have checked all the family friends of LHP/hubby/son-in-law.
There was no mysterious intruder IMO.The RN tells me that it was an uneducated person who only wanted to sound like one.A "wanna-be".

Who watches and who has the time to watch such movies and borrow lines from them anyway?A journalism graduate?I doubt it.

I don't think this murder is that complicated after all.

 

[madeleine]

If it was a kidnapping gone wrong ,what does the RN amount tell you.Someone was scared to ask for more.Why.Maybe they thought the Ramsey's wouldn't call LE if it's not a big sum,it's easy to get,no big deal.

 

[madeleine]

This crime has amateurs written all over it.
The Ramsey's just weren't STUPID people.
Staging or not,this has stupidity written all over it.
But the killers were lucky.It's either they left some evidence (fibers.prints) which can be explained because they been there previously(work?) OR this evidence was lost because LE didn't secure the crime scene.

 

[madeleine]

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-linda-hoffmann-pugh.htm

Gave Cops:
3 Rolls Blk Tape
White Lined Note Pad that
Came from Ramsey house:waitasec:
3 Felt Tip Pens
2' narrow rope
A rope around
a stick !

 

[BBB167893]

This crime has amateurs written all over it.

That's something we can agree on!

The Ramsey's just weren't STUPID people.
Staging or not,this has stupidity written all over it.

No one has said they were stupid, madeleine. They just were lousy criminals. As I've often said, there's a big difference between being smart and knowing what you're doing. This crime had the forms, but not the substance. It's all about the difference between knowledge and wisdom.

But the killers were lucky.

Agreed again!

I don't think this murder is that complicated after all.

You're batting a thousand.

 

[WHITEFANG]

That's something we can agree on! No one has said they were stupid, madeleine. They just were lousy criminals. As I've often said, there's a big difference between being smart and knowing what you're doing. This crime had the forms, but not the substance. It's all about the difference between knowledge and wisdom.
Agreed again! You're batting a thousand.

As I've often said, all you need is evidence.

 

[WHITEFANG]

They were not stupid, and they were not stupid criminals. They were not inexperienced criminals or criminals who lacked common sense or creativity. They were not brilliant criminals. They were not inexperienced criminals. They were not skilled criminals. They were not incapable criminals. They were not, never have been and show no tendencies or proclivities that becoming criminals is in the cards.

They were innocent victims of a tragedy the likes of which most of us cannot begin to comprehend. There is no evidence they perpetrated these unspeakable crimes against their own flesh and blood six year old daughter.

Remember, you are arguing with someone who will not acknowledge "love" as a viable component in this debacle. It is a non-factor.

He does acknowledge his pain.

 

[MurriFlower]

If it was a kidnapping gone wrong ,what does the RN amount tell you.Someone was scared to ask for more.Why.Maybe they thought the Ramsey's wouldn't call LE if it's not a big sum,it's easy to get,no big deal.

Funnily enough, although LHP has a 'big gold star' next to her name, she's not the only possibility. Through her own stupidity and desire for fame, she's the only one we know very much about. She has contradicted herself and lied about various things, so she seems to be more likely than anyone else. Certainly I'd never dismiss her as being too stupid or kind or naive.

BUT the killer is not the person who set this 'sting' up. I call it a 'sting' because I don't believe it was ever intended to be a killing. These simpletons just wanted to extort some money from the rich folks, by taking their precious baby and hiding her long enough to collect the ransom. If the R's had been childless and had a dog they were very fond of then it would have been the subject of this extortion attempt. Sadly the dog wasn't in the loop, but poor little JBR was.

Would a dog have fared any better? Doubtful.

Whoever set this up, engaged as their accomplice someone who was very sick. He (I say 'he' only because this is what it appears due to the DNA evidence, although a 'she' is not completely ruled out) was to take care of JBR and keep her quiet until the ransom was paid. But instead, JBR ended up dead!!

So this person is the killer and sick though he/she was/is and should never have been left in charge of a child, but the person who organised it is just as much, if not more to blame for what happened.

What do we have to identify this person, and by association, the 'principal' person in this crime??

There appears to be a military background, real or imagined.
I believe there is a hand gun (possibly a Glock 19) involved
This person probably has no previous for child molestation.
There may be an aversion to blood.
There may be an aversion to adult females (molested by mother figure?).
There may be a fear of germs or of touching other people.
I think this person may be a 'hunter' or 'woodsman'.
This person would be considered 'slow' or 'dumb' by others.

Is there someone in or around Boulder that fits this description or someone associated with the Rs who has a husband/father/son/brother who would?

That's all I have at present.

 

[Chrishope]

Funnily enough, although LHP has a 'big gold star' next to her name, she's not the only possibility. Through her own stupidity and desire for fame, she's the only one we know very much about. She has contradicted herself and lied about various things, so she seems to be more likely than anyone else. Certainly I'd never dismiss her as being too stupid or kind or naive.

BUT the killer is not the person who set this 'sting' up. I call it a 'sting' because I don't believe it was ever intended to be a killing. These simpletons just wanted to extort some money from the rich folks, by taking their precious baby and hiding her long enough to collect the ransom. If the R's had been childless and had a dog they were very fond of then it would have been the subject of this extortion attempt. Sadly the dog wasn't in the loop, but poor little JBR was.

Would a dog have fared any better? Doubtful.

Whoever set this up, engaged as their accomplice someone who was very sick. He (I say 'he' only because this is what it appears due to the DNA evidence, although a 'she' is not completely ruled out) was to take care of JBR and keep her quiet until the ransom was paid. But instead, JBR ended up dead!!

So this person is the killer and sick though he/she was/is and should never have been left in charge of a child, but the person who organised it is just as much, if not more to blame for what happened.

What do we have to identify this person, and by association, the 'principal' person in this crime??

There appears to be a military background, real or imagined.
I believe there is a hand gun (possibly a Glock 19) involved
This person probably has no previous for child molestation.
There may be an aversion to blood.
There may be an aversion to adult females (molested by mother figure?).
There may be a fear of germs or of touching other people.
I think this person may be a 'hunter' or 'woodsman'.
This person would be considered 'slow' or 'dumb' by others.

Is there someone in or around Boulder that fits this description or someone associated with the Rs who has a husband/father/son/brother who would?

That's all I have at present.

I don't believe it was ever intended as a kidnapping. Kidnappers, even really stupid ones, seem to understand the basic concept that if the body is found before the ransom is paid, no ransom will ever be paid. Real kidnappers do not leave dead bodies and ransom notes in the same house.

 

[nobull]

I don't believe it was ever intended as a kidnapping. Kidnappers, even really stupid ones, seem to understand the basic concept that if the body is found before the ransom is paid, no ransom will ever be paid. Real kidnappers do not leave dead bodies and ransom notes in the same house.

This.

 

[joeskidbeck]

If it wasn't intended to be a killing and it wasn't intended to be a kidnapping, what could have been the intention?